• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Root cause [W:255]

Re: Root cause

vegas giants said:
I would love to end discussions on root cause. It is pointless. We know what works. Gun control
Click to expand...

It was your thread title and your position that guns are the root cause of violent crimes. If you can’t defend that then say so, or defend that position. Your thread and thread topic, the responsibility lies with you to defend it.
 
Re: Root cause

Beaudreaux said:
It was your thread title and your position that guns are the root cause of violent crimes. If you can’t defend that then say so, or defend that position. Your thread and thread topic, the responsibility lies with you to defend it.
Click to expand...

I think gun laws are a significant factor in gun deaths. The top states with lax gun control have the most gun deaths. The states with the most strict gun control have the most gun deaths. So yes I think gun control is a significant part of the equation
 
Re: Root cause

Beaudreaux said:
Then why bring crimes into the discussion if all you want to do is get rid of guns?
Click to expand...

Again I never said I want to get rid of guns. You can have guns and gun control. Lots of countries do.
 
Re: Root cause

vegas giants said:
And gun suicides. Gun control can reduce all those
Click to expand...

Gun control cannot stop gun suicides.

Only a total gun ban can. Is that what you want?

Because at it's very most basic, the 2A is about owning a gun. Period.

Go back to your own OP and if you want to stop *suicides*, then focus on mental illness.
 
Re: Root cause

Lursa said:
Gun control cannot stop gun suicides.

Only a total gun ban can. Is that what you want?

Because at it's very most basic, the 2A is about owning a gun. Period.

Go back to your own OP and if you want to stop *suicides*, then focus on mental illness.
Click to expand...

The goal is harm reduction not harm elimination. No traffic laws can stop all traffic deaths.....but we can reduce them
 
Re: Root cause

vegas giants said:
I think gun laws are a significant factor in gun deaths. The top states with lax gun control have the most gun deaths. The states with the most strict gun control have the most gun deaths. So yes I think gun control is a significant part of the equation
Click to expand...

Then I suggest you give evidence that supports your beliefs rather than not.
 
Re: Root cause

vegas giants said:
You get so much wrong. I have treated patients with suicidal ideations for over 25 years. You love to characterize my positions when you know almost nothing about them except your own prejudices
Click to expand...

Absolutely there has been no supporting evidence to lend credibility to this claim. It's outrageous to post as uninformed and deliberately dishonestly (or in complete avoidance with gibberish) as you do and then think people would be gullible enough to believe such a claim.

So in the future please provide some actual sources for your 'opinion.' I'm sure that if you had such a profession, there would be educational material somewhere.
 
Re: Root cause

vegas giants said:
I can't understand the English in this question. I am not trying to be rude....I just don't understand it
Click to expand...

Since it is already a crime in every state for a convicted felon (a prohibited person) to have any gun then what more gun control is needed?

My point was that you (when you actually do present anything as a 'solution') want to impose (more) restrictions on legal gun owners that have absolutely no impact on those criminals that already illegally have guns. You seem to have some strange idea that even nationally banned things, like recreational 'street drugs', will somehow no longer find their way into the country or into the hands of criminals.
 
Re: Root cause

Lursa said:
Absolutely there has been no supporting evidence to lend credibility to this claim. It's outrageous to post as uninformed and deliberately dishonestly (or in complete avoidance with gibberish) as you do and then think people would be gullible enough to believe such a claim.

So in the future please provide some actual sources for your 'opinion.' I'm sure that if you had such a profession, there would be educational material somewhere.
Click to expand...

Despite your insult
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magazine/guns-and-suicide/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/business/wonkblog/suicide-rates/?noredirect=on

For starters
 
Re: Root cause

vegas giants said:
Again I never said I want to get rid of guns. You can have guns and gun control. Lots of countries do.
Click to expand...

You stated that guns are the root cause of certain crimes which by definition and logical progression means that if the crimes are to be reduced or eliminated, the root cause must be eliminated. Therefore you state that guns must be eliminated. It’s your position, not mine.

Another member has already asked you in this thread to explain how putting more controls on law abiding people, those who are not already a restricted class of person from possessing a gun, would reduce anything other than the Cosntitutional rights of law abiding citizens. Can you answer that simple question?
 
Re: Root cause

vegas giants said:
Again show me exactly where I said guns = suicide. You are constantly misrepresenting my position
Click to expand...

You said that having more gun control would mean less suicides did you not? Your aim here is to prevent those with suicidal tendencies from obtaining a gun correct? All I did was shorten it to guns = suicide. Why did I shorten it? Because you started out this thread as wanting to address root causes. Therefore if you are wanting to address root causes and you are saying "And gun suicides. Gun control can reduce all those" then you are saying that guns are the root cause of suicides by those that use guns.

You DO want use to address root causes do you not? Isn't that the premise of your thread? I was just pointing out that guns are not the root cause of suicide therefore your "And gun suicides. Gun control can reduce all those" comment is worthless for your own threads premise. And if you truly have treated patients with suicidal ideations for 25 years you should know this.
 
Re: Root cause

ttwtt78640 said:
Since it is already a crime in every state for a convicted felon (a prohibited person) to have any gun then what more gun control is needed?

My point was that you (when you actually do present anything as a 'solution') want to impose (more) restrictions on legal gun owners that have absolutely no impact on those criminals that already illegally have guns. You seem to have some strange idea that even nationally banned things, like recreational 'street drugs', will somehow no longer find their way into the country or into the hands of criminals.
Click to expand...

Oh. Much more gun control is needed. Just making it illegal for a felon to have a gun is clearly not working. It is a crime to bring a bomb on a airplane. So why am I getting searched? It is a crime to enter the country illegally. So why are we building a wall. You see my point
 
Re: Root cause

vegas giants said:
I can't understand the English in this question. I am not trying to be rude....I just don't understand it
Click to expand...

Forgive me ttwt if I overstep: What "gun control" solution(s) would prevent a prohibited person with (obviously) illegal guns and intent to use them (crime, obviously since they cant own them to begin with) without dangerously & unfairly restricting the ability of the law-abiding to protect self and family?
 
Re: Root cause

Kal'Stang said:
You said that having more gun control would mean less suicides did you not? Your aim here is to prevent those with suicidal tendencies from obtaining a gun correct? All I did was shorten it to guns = suicide. Why did I shorten it? Because you started out this thread as wanting to address root causes. Therefore if you are wanting to address root causes and you are saying "And gun suicides. Gun control can reduce all those" then you are saying that guns are the root cause of suicides by those that use guns.

You DO want use to address root causes do you not? Isn't that the premise of your thread? I was just pointing out that guns are not the root cause of suicide therefore your "And gun suicides. Gun control can reduce all those" comment is worthless for your own threads premise. And if you truly have treated patients with suicidal ideations for 25 years you should know this.
Click to expand...

I am not saying that guns are the root cause of all suicide. That is just a silly mischaracterization. But they are a significant factor in completed suicides. They are not the only cause but they are a significant factor in the US. That is simply a fact
 
Re: Root cause

vegas giants said:
The goal is harm reduction not harm elimination. No traffic laws can stop all traffic deaths.....but we can reduce them
Click to expand...

Why is some suicidal person's life more important than mine? Why should my right to protection be restricted because of them?
 
Re: Root cause

Lursa said:
Forgive me ttwt if I overstep: What "gun control" solution(s) would prevent a prohibited person with (obviously) illegal guns and intent to use them (crime, obviously since they cant own them to begin with) without dangerously & unfairly restricting the ability of the law-abiding to protect self and family?
Click to expand...

I don't know. I am unfairly searched at the airport. It is a hassle. You can live with a little hassle
 
Re: Root cause

Lursa said:
Why is some suicidal person's life more important than mine? Why should my right to protection be restricted because of them?
Click to expand...

You can have guns and gun control. How many times do we have to go over this
 
Re: Root cause

vegas giants said:
I don't know. I am unfairly searched at the airport. It is a hassle. You can live with a little hassle
Click to expand...

So you consider putting my life and the life of my family in more danger as 'a little hassle?'

Good to know. Dont bother criticizing my opinions on placing my life and rights over that over a suicidal person's again. Ever. Because it's BS based on your response right here.
 
Re: Root cause

vegas giants said:
I am not saying that guns are the root cause of all suicide. That is just a silly mischaracterization. But they are a significant factor in completed suicides. They are not the only cause but they are a significant factor in the US. That is simply a fact
Click to expand...

You contradict yourself here.

Yes, guns make suicides easier to complete. But your OP was started by talking about root causes. If you want to address root causes then you need to look beyond the tool that was used. Something which you have not done once in this entire thread. You are fixated on guns in this thread. Which means you are not looking at or for root causes.
 
Re: Root cause

vegas giants said:
You can have guns and gun control. How many times do we have to go over this
Click to expand...

You cannot stop suicides by gun or even reduce them unless you ban guns.

Name a gun control measure that can do so?

We already have laws that prevent those diagnosed with mental illness from owning a gun. And yet...certainly you as a 'professional' know that so many potential suicides go undiagnosed.
 
Re: Root cause

Kal'Stang said:
You contradict yourself here.

Yes, guns make suicides easier to complete. But your OP was started by talking about root causes. If you want to address root causes then you need to look beyond the tool that was used. Something which you have not done once in this entire thread. You are fixated on guns in this thread. Which means you are not looking at or for root causes.
Click to expand...

I keep asking where your plan works and I get no answers. You can not have a low gun death state or country without gun control. ANYWHERE ON EARTH. If you can not see the connection that is the best I can do
 
Re: Root cause

Lursa said:
You cannot stop suicides by gun or even reduce them unless you ban guns.

Name a gun control measure that can do so?

We already have laws that prevent those diagnosed with mental illness from owning a gun. And yet...certainly you as a 'professional' know that so many potential suicides go undiagnosed.
Click to expand...

Why do the states with the highest suicide rate have lax gun control? Every year....year in and year out
 
Re: Root cause

vegas giants said:
Despite your insult
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magazine/guns-and-suicide/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/business/wonkblog/suicide-rates/?noredirect=on

For starters
Click to expand...
No one denies people use guns for suicide.

We or at least I, want to know why no access to guns has not reduced suicides in Japan? And what makes you think banning guns in America (the only way to stop or even reduce suicide by gun here) would lower suicide rates significantly?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom