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Sadly, I fear we remain one grisly step away from resolving the gun debate

Xelor

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Quite simply, the Parkland shooting irrefutably illustrates that even the relative insulation from a host of social ills, gun violence among them, upper-middle class and entry-level wealthy families and neighborhoods enjoy is not enough to protect them from gun violence. The Parkman shooter went into a school populated with a subset of some the nation's most fortunate kids and today, those kids are every bit as dead as a doornail, and those "white picket fence" families are no less aggrieved. The same can be said of the shooting yesterday in Annapolis, MD. Nonetheless, it seems Congressional Republicans cleave to the will of the NRA, profoundly bereft of the will to endure a non-A rating from the NRA.

But M. Stoneman Douglas is a public school, and though it's students/families are well-off, mostly, they aren't in the same social cohort as are the kids/families at the nation's premier day-hop schools and boarding schools nestled in the bucolic solitude of America's countrysides and having students hailing from posh families around the world. The minute, God forfend, a gunman shoots a kid(s) at any one of those schools, the gun debate will come to a screeching halt because people paying $50K+/year in tuition, nevermind room, board and activity fees and cost, will demand and receive, as with everything else, precisely what they want. The instant that happens, the blinders and gossamer veils facilitating the 1% of the 1%'s forbearance of what in their hearts they know is the spurious "guns aren't the problem" canard will fall.

There're, of course, currently "woke" folks in the donor class; there's no question about that. As yet, however, they and their "dozing" peers have been essentially untouched by random gun violence. The donor class isn't immune to one-off shootings and other violence -- Menendez brothers, the Kalorama shooting, and so on -- but as yet elite bastions have yet to have their denizens become targets of gun violence. Poor and middle class citizens have endured gun violence of all sorts for decades. Aside from 9/11, various plane crashes, the Lusitania and Titanic, the country's economic elites largely have not, and even considering their exposure to non-random events ( e.g., Arlington shooting) and special circumstances (e.g., POTUSes and the occasional political assassination mostly), not in any way comparable to Aurora, Columbine, Parkland, Pulse, Las Vegas, etc.

I absolutely hope that nobody else will have to suffer shootings of any sort. If/when I ever hear of another mass shooting, it'll be too soon. That said, I do fear the only other thing, besides what I've described above, that will move Congress members irrevocably out of their political quagmire is the 2018 plebiscite outcome's sending a clear message that a material share of the citizenry's GOP has abandoned the NRA.


Note to the "peanut gallery":
This is not a gun control thread, so don't go there.

 
Moderator's Warning:
Well, this little peanut notes that you have mentioned guns, congressional republicans, NRA, and for all the wordiness of your post noted that nothing is being done. As such, yes, this is a gun control thread. As such it has been moved to the Gun Control sub forum.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Well, this little peanut notes that you have mentioned guns, congressional republicans, NRA, and for all the wordiness of your post noted that nothing is being done. As such, yes, this is a gun control thread. As such it has been moved to the Gun Control sub forum.

The thread theme:
  • Alluded to in the title: "I fear we remain one grisly step away from resolving the gun debate"
  • Expressly stated in the body: "The minute, God forfend, a gunman shoots a kid(s) at any one of those schools, the gun debate will come to a screeching halt because people paying $50K+/year in tuition, nevermind room, board and activity fees and cost, will demand and receive, as with everything else, precisely what they want."
I didn't offer any gun control measure as being "precisely what they want."
 
The "gun debate" has been resolved for about 250 years.
 
Quite simply, the Parkland shooting irrefutably illustrates that even the relative insulation from a host of social ills, gun violence among them, upper-middle class and entry-level wealthy families and neighborhoods enjoy is not enough to protect them from gun violence. The Parkman shooter went into a school populated with a subset of some the nation's most fortunate kids and today, those kids are every bit as dead as a doornail, and those "white picket fence" families are no less aggrieved. The same can be said of the shooting yesterday in Annapolis, MD. Nonetheless, it seems Congressional Republicans cleave to the will of the NRA, profoundly bereft of the will to endure a non-A rating from the NRA.

But M. Stoneman Douglas is a public school, and though it's students/families are well-off, mostly, they aren't in the same social cohort as are the kids/families at the nation's premier day-hop schools and boarding schools nestled in the bucolic solitude of America's countrysides and having students hailing from posh families around the world. The minute, God forfend, a gunman shoots a kid(s) at any one of those schools, the gun debate will come to a screeching halt because people paying $50K+/year in tuition, nevermind room, board and activity fees and cost, will demand and receive, as with everything else, precisely what they want. The instant that happens, the blinders and gossamer veils facilitating the 1% of the 1%'s forbearance of what in their hearts they know is the spurious "guns aren't the problem" canard will fall.

There're, of course, currently "woke" folks in the donor class; there's no question about that. As yet, however, they and their "dozing" peers have been essentially untouched by random gun violence. The donor class isn't immune to one-off shootings and other violence -- Menendez brothers, the Kalorama shooting, and so on -- but as yet elite bastions have yet to have their denizens become targets of gun violence. Poor and middle class citizens have endured gun violence of all sorts for decades. Aside from 9/11, various plane crashes, the Lusitania and Titanic, the country's economic elites largely have not, and even considering their exposure to non-random events ( e.g., Arlington shooting) and special circumstances (e.g., POTUSes and the occasional political assassination mostly), not in any way comparable to Aurora, Columbine, Parkland, Pulse, Las Vegas, etc.

I absolutely hope that nobody else will have to suffer shootings of any sort. If/when I ever hear of another mass shooting, it'll be too soon. That said, I do fear the only other thing, besides what I've described above, that will move Congress members irrevocably out of their political quagmire is the 2018 plebiscite outcome's sending a clear message that a material share of the citizenry's GOP has abandoned the NRA.


Note to the "peanut gallery":
This is not a gun control thread, so don't go there.


Yeah, sure.
 
The thread theme:
  • Alluded to in the title: "I fear we remain one grisly step away from resolving the gun debate"
  • Expressly stated in the body: "The minute, God forfend, a gunman shoots a kid(s) at any one of those schools, the gun debate will come to a screeching halt because people paying $50K+/year in tuition, nevermind room, board and activity fees and cost, will demand and receive, as with everything else, precisely what they want."
I didn't offer any gun control measure as being "precisely what they want."

What, exactly, is "the gun debate" in your this is not about gun control mind?
 
I wonder if this could be called "Fake Posting"? :doh


(Note to the "peanut gallery":
This is not a gun control thread, so don't go there.)
 
The thread theme:

  • Alluded to in the title: "I fear we remain one grisly step away from resolving the gun debate"
  • Expressly stated in the body: "The minute, God forfend, a gunman shoots a kid(s) at any one of those schools, the gun debate will come to a screeching halt because people paying $50K+/year in tuition, nevermind room, board and activity fees and cost, will demand and receive, as with everything else, precisely what they want."

I didn't offer any gun control measure as being "precisely what they want."



What, exactly, is "the gun debate" in your this is not about gun control mind?

Seriously? Do I need to spell out what be this thread's topic even as you've replied to the post you replied to?

The aspect of the "gun debate" that this thread is about is the portion of it whereby is argued/discussed:
  • The point at which and/or criteria whereby members of Congress will legislate something that's unequivocal and effectual for reducing the incidence of gun deaths and injuries. That part of the "gun debate."
Does that point have anything to do with gun control? No, because it's an existential state of mind, a set of cultural extants, that has yet to become so. Gun control or any other "unequivocal and effectual" measures Congress may take will only happen after that existential state of mind arrives in the brains and hearts of members of Congress.

Every solutioneering process has the same basic steps (each step has multiple sub-steps):
  1. Identify and acknowledge an extant problem.
  2. Resolve to act to fix the problem.
  3. Conjure solution options.
  4. Evaluate solution options.
  5. Choose one or more solution options and prioritize their implementation (some may be implemented concurrently with others, and some may be implemented after others, and some may not be implemented)
  6. Implement the chosen options.
  7. Evaluate the solution's effectiveness.
  8. Revise or restart the process as needed.
This thread is about what it'll take to get members of Congress to (a) arrive at step 1 and/or (b) move from "step 1 to step 2." Gun control is in neither of those steps.
 
….it seems Congressional Republicans cleave to the will of the NRA, profoundly bereft of the will to endure a non-A rating from the NRA.

But M. Stoneman Douglas is a public school, and though it's students/families are well-off, mostly, they aren't in the same social cohort as are the kids/families at the nation's premier day-hop schools and boarding schools nestled in the bucolic solitude of America's countrysides and having students hailing from posh families around the world. The minute, God forfend, a gunman shoots a kid(s) at any one of those schools, the gun debate will come to a screeching halt because people paying $50K+/year in tuition, nevermind room, board and activity fees and cost, will demand and receive, as with everything else, precisely what they want. The instant that happens, the blinders and gossamer veils facilitating the 1% of the 1%'s forbearance of what in their hearts they know is the spurious "guns aren't the problem" canard will fall.

There're, of course, currently "woke" folks in the donor class; there's no question about that. As yet, however, they and their "dozing" peers have been essentially untouched by random gun violence. The donor class isn't immune to one-off shootings and other violence -- Menendez brothers, the Kalorama shooting, and so on -- but as yet elite bastions have yet to have their denizens become targets of gun violence. Poor and middle class citizens have endured gun violence of all sorts for decades. Aside from 9/11, various plane crashes, the Lusitania and Titanic, the country's economic elites largely have not, and even considering their exposure to non-random events ( e.g., Arlington shooting) and special circumstances (e.g., POTUSes and the occasional political assassination mostly), not in any way comparable to Aurora, Columbine, Parkland, Pulse, Las Vegas, etc.

I absolutely hope that nobody else will have to suffer shootings of any sort. If/when I ever hear of another mass shooting, it'll be too soon. That said, I do fear the only other thing, besides what I've described above, that will move Congress members irrevocably out of their political quagmire is the 2018 plebiscite outcome's sending a clear message that a material share of the citizenry's GOP has abandoned the NRA.


Seriously? Do I need to spell out what be this thread's topic even as you've replied to the post you replied to?

The aspect of the "gun debate" that this thread is about is the portion of it whereby is argued/discussed:
  • The point at which and/or criteria whereby members of Congress will legislate something that's unequivocal and effectual for reducing the incidence of gun deaths and injuries. That part of the "gun debate."
Does that point have anything to do with gun control? No, because it's an existential state of mind, a set of cultural extants, that has yet to become so. Gun control or any other "unequivocal and effectual" measures Congress may take will only happen after that existential state of mind arrives in the brains and hearts of members of Congress.

Every solutioneering process has the same basic steps (each step has multiple sub-steps):

  1. [*]Identify and acknowledge an extant problem.
  2. Resolve to act to fix the problem.
  3. Conjure solution options.
  4. Evaluate solution options.
  5. Choose one or more solution options and prioritize their implementation (some may be implemented concurrently with others, and some may be implemented after others, and some may not be implemented)
  6. Implement the chosen options.
  7. Evaluate the solution's effectiveness.
  8. Revise or restart the process as needed.
This thread is about what it'll take to get members of Congress to (a) arrive at step 1 and/or (b) move from "step 1 to step 2." Gun control is in neither of those steps.

Your thread is about gun control.

Accept that fact, and start your debate with your own suggested solutions. :coffeepap:
 
Last edited:
I don't know what on Earth the OP would inspire talking about OTHER than gun control.

Formula 1 racing?

The Americas Cup?

Championship brownie recipes?

What?
 
You mean your time for attacking people's rights while standing on the graves of children are over.
 
Quite simply, the Parkland shooting irrefutably illustrates that even the relative insulation from a host of social ills, gun violence among them, upper-middle class and entry-level wealthy families and neighborhoods enjoy is not enough to protect them from gun violence. The Parkman shooter went into a school populated with a subset of some the nation's most fortunate kids and today, those kids are every bit as dead as a doornail, and those "white picket fence" families are no less aggrieved. The same can be said of the shooting yesterday in Annapolis, MD. Nonetheless, it seems Congressional Republicans cleave to the will of the NRA, profoundly bereft of the will to endure a non-A rating from the NRA.

But M. Stoneman Douglas is a public school, and though it's students/families are well-off, mostly, they aren't in the same social cohort as are the kids/families at the nation's premier day-hop schools and boarding schools nestled in the bucolic solitude of America's countrysides and having students hailing from posh families around the world. The minute, God forfend, a gunman shoots a kid(s) at any one of those schools, the gun debate will come to a screeching halt because people paying $50K+/year in tuition, nevermind room, board and activity fees and cost, will demand and receive, as with everything else, precisely what they want. The instant that happens, the blinders and gossamer veils facilitating the 1% of the 1%'s forbearance of what in their hearts they know is the spurious "guns aren't the problem" canard will fall.

There're, of course, currently "woke" folks in the donor class; there's no question about that. As yet, however, they and their "dozing" peers have been essentially untouched by random gun violence. The donor class isn't immune to one-off shootings and other violence -- Menendez brothers, the Kalorama shooting, and so on -- but as yet elite bastions have yet to have their denizens become targets of gun violence. Poor and middle class citizens have endured gun violence of all sorts for decades. Aside from 9/11, various plane crashes, the Lusitania and Titanic, the country's economic elites largely have not, and even considering their exposure to non-random events ( e.g., Arlington shooting) and special circumstances (e.g., POTUSes and the occasional political assassination mostly), not in any way comparable to Aurora, Columbine, Parkland, Pulse, Las Vegas, etc.

I absolutely hope that nobody else will have to suffer shootings of any sort. If/when I ever hear of another mass shooting, it'll be too soon. That said, I do fear the only other thing, besides what I've described above, that will move Congress members irrevocably out of their political quagmire is the 2018 plebiscite outcome's sending a clear message that a material share of the citizenry's GOP has abandoned the NRA.


Note to the "peanut gallery":
This is not a gun control thread, so don't go there.


NRA membership is up. NRA revenues are up. Gun sales are up.

Who's abandoning the NRA?
 
gun-control-900x600.jpg
 
Damn I can't wait for that next justice to be confirmed. The gun grabbers will be spinning their wheels for decades.
 
NRA membership is up. NRA revenues are up. Gun sales are up.

Who's abandoning the NRA?

Never mind that the 2018 elections aren't a "plebiscite," and they certainly don't represent votes on a single issue.
 
Seriously? Do I need to spell out what be this thread's topic even as you've replied to the post you replied to?

The aspect of the "gun debate" that this thread is about is the portion of it whereby is argued/discussed:
  • The point at which and/or criteria whereby members of Congress will legislate something that's unequivocal and effectual for reducing the incidence of gun deaths and injuries. That part of the "gun debate."
Does that point have anything to do with gun control? No, because it's an existential state of mind, a set of cultural extants, that has yet to become so. Gun control or any other "unequivocal and effectual" measures Congress may take will only happen after that existential state of mind arrives in the brains and hearts of members of Congress.

Every solutioneering process has the same basic steps (each step has multiple sub-steps):
  1. Identify and acknowledge an extant problem.
  2. Resolve to act to fix the problem.
  3. Conjure solution options.
  4. Evaluate solution options.
  5. Choose one or more solution options and prioritize their implementation (some may be implemented concurrently with others, and some may be implemented after others, and some may not be implemented)
  6. Implement the chosen options.
  7. Evaluate the solution's effectiveness.
  8. Revise or restart the process as needed.
This thread is about what it'll take to get members of Congress to (a) arrive at step 1 and/or (b) move from "step 1 to step 2." Gun control is in neither of those steps.

So you supposedly want to talk about what it'll take to get Congress in the mindset to implement gun control, but this isn't about gun control.
 
So the question basically is "what is going to have to happen for people to get on board with gun control". "Gun Control" being the "answer" the OP is meaning is clear given the fact that the obstacle to it CURRENTLY (and thus why he's asking the question of what would need to happen) is being presented by the OP as the NRA. And the thing the NRA concerns itself with is gun control, thus it's clear what's actually being asked here.

So, what has to happen for people who aren't on board with gun control now to get on board with it? Honestly, I don't think there's some clarion call event that could necessarily cause that to happen. That includes the wonderfully backhanded insulting take on the idea that it'll need to be a private school shooting that affects a "1%" for it to happen.

There's too many individuals in this country who have a deeply rooted view as it regards to the right to bear arms for any individual event to likely cause that to flip in any significant fashion. If anything is going to eventually lead to further action to deal with the "gun debate", it's going to be time and a gradual and slow movement in that direction rather than some singular paradigm shifting event.
 
So the question basically is "what is going to have to happen for people to get on board with gun control". "Gun Control" being the "answer" the OP is meaning is clear given the fact that the obstacle to it CURRENTLY (and thus why he's asking the question of what would need to happen) is being presented by the OP as the NRA. And the thing the NRA concerns itself with is gun control, thus it's clear what's actually being asked here.

So, what has to happen for people who aren't on board with gun control now to get on board with it? Honestly, I don't think there's some clarion call event that could necessarily cause that to happen. That includes the wonderfully backhanded insulting take on the idea that it'll need to be a private school shooting that affects a "1%" for it to happen.

It could be argued that those families whose children attend these private institutions are disproportionately wealthy and conservative, and that these families associate most often with other families that are wealthy and conservative. It could also be argued that those who are wealthy and conservative disproportionately have a higher gun ownership rate than the average American, and own more guns than the average American.

Why is it, then, that we haven't seen a mass shooting at an elite school, given the arguably easier access to firearms that students, former students and associates at these schools seem to have?
 
Seriously? Do I need to spell out what be this thread's topic even as you've replied to the post you replied to?

The aspect of the "gun debate" that this thread is about is the portion of it whereby is argued/discussed:
  • The point at which and/or criteria whereby members of Congress will legislate something that's unequivocal and effectual for reducing the incidence of gun deaths and injuries. That part of the "gun debate."
Does that point have anything to do with gun control? No, because it's an existential state of mind, a set of cultural extants, that has yet to become so. Gun control or any other "unequivocal and effectual" measures Congress may take will only happen after that existential state of mind arrives in the brains and hearts of members of Congress.

Every solutioneering process has the same basic steps (each step has multiple sub-steps):
  1. Identify and acknowledge an extant problem.
  2. Resolve to act to fix the problem.
  3. Conjure solution options.
  4. Evaluate solution options.
  5. Choose one or more solution options and prioritize their implementation (some may be implemented concurrently with others, and some may be implemented after others, and some may not be implemented)
  6. Implement the chosen options.
  7. Evaluate the solution's effectiveness.
  8. Revise or restart the process as needed.
This thread is about what it'll take to get members of Congress to (a) arrive at step 1 and/or (b) move from "step 1 to step 2." Gun control is in neither of those steps.

So you supposedly want to talk about what it'll take to get Congress in the mindset to implement gun control, but this isn't about gun control.

Seriously? Out of all the remarks in blue text, the meaning you took from them is that the thread it about "what it'll take to get Congress in the mindset to implement gun control. Perhaps you should read this. It may help clarify the matter.
 
Seriously? Out of all the remarks in blue text, the meaning you took from them is that the thread it about "what it'll take to get Congress in the mindset to implement gun control. Perhaps you should read this. It may help clarify the matter.

given you have posted tons of long winded, rambling screeds hateful towards gun ownership, what are you complaining about now? seems like you are HOPING for a mass shooting in some elite prep school in order for the parents of the elites to jump on the gun ban(ned) wagon
 
Seriously? Out of all the remarks in blue text, the meaning you took from them is that the thread it about "what it'll take to get Congress in the mindset to implement gun control. Perhaps you should read this. It may help clarify the matter.

"The point at which and/or criteria whereby members of Congress will legislate something that's unequivocal and effectual for reducing the incidence of gun deaths and injuries. That part of the "gun debate.""

What should Congress legislate that's "unequivocal and effectual for reducing the incidence of gun deaths and injuries" that is not gun control?
 
given you have posted tons of long winded, rambling screeds hateful towards gun ownership, what are you complaining about now? seems like you are HOPING for a mass shooting in some elite prep school in order for the parents of the elites to jump on the gun ban(ned) wagon
Blue:
Why must my OP be one in which I complain about anything? If you were to read the OP and if you are possessed of strong critical (not criticizing) reading skills, you'd know (1) whether, in it, I complain about anything, and (2) what, if anything, I may have complained about.

Red:
What specific remarks in the OP led you to surmise that I be "HOPING for a mass shooting in some elite prep school?"
 
Blue:
Why must my OP be one in which I complain about anything? If you were to read the OP and if you are possessed of strong critical (not criticizing) reading skills, you'd know (1) whether, in it, I complain about anything, and (2) what, if anything, I may have complained about.

Red:
What specific remarks in the OP led you to surmise that I be "HOPING for a mass shooting in some elite prep school?"

it seems to be the obvious point you spend so much time beating around the bush over
 
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