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FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness[W:139]

Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

jamesrage said:
Why do you disagree? Is someone who is nuts and never diagnosed by a shrink any less crazy than someone who is diagnosed by a shrink as being crazy?
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True to a degree but, what do you think what makes a shooter?


Can’t censor this Patriot
 
Northern Light said:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ve-mental-illness-get-guns-legally/718283002/



Well this is interesting.

For years now I've assumed that the shooters mostly had some kind of mental illness, but I was wrong.

It turns out that the main reason that shootings happen is that people don't recognize the warning signs or don't report it. In other words, apathy.

Perhaps the solution is as simple as that. Don't take away guns, just increase citizen vigilance. Perhaps the same apathy that is plaguing our democratic system is the one responsible for the shootings, just not in the way that partisans have been arguing about. Just a thought.
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Oh people who kill other people have something wrong upstairs. Just because our metal health diagnosis in this country is pathetic does not mean it is not a problem. We go to the dentist every 6 months and have our teeth checked but when it comes to mental problems most people have never even been examined. Plus while having your blood pressure checked every year is considered a wise decision getting a mental examination is taboo. Plus even if you do want to see a psychiatrist to discuss some problem you can put your job in jeopardy as well as your rights. If you do not seek treatment you can legally buy and own a gun. If you seek treatment everyone wants to take your gun away or stop you from owning one. We are so backward and pathetic in diagnosis of mental health as well as the way we treat people who are intelligent enough to seek help.
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

TheRepublican said:
True to a degree but, what do you think what makes a shooter?


Can’t censor this Patriot
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Most high profile mass shooters tend to be suicidal social outcast losers who want their 15 minutes of fame and the media in their zeal to promote anti-2nd amendment laws helps them get that 15 minutes of fame. In the first three quarters of the 20th century we have had extremely easy access to both semiautomatic and automatic firearms. During that time we did have the occasional mass shooting. But the mass shootings were nowhere near what it is now. The only change seems to be the way the media covers these mass murderers. Which is the media talks about them for weeks at a time in order to push for more anti2nd amendment laws. There some studies to suggest that mass shootings stories inspire other mass shootings.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/mass-shootings-are-contagious/
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

jamesrage said:
Most high profile mass shooters tend to be suicidal social outcast losers who want their 15 minutes of fame and the media in their zeal to promote anti-2nd amendment laws helps them get that 15 minutes of fame. In the first three quarters of the 20th century we have had extremely easy access to both semiautomatic and automatic firearms. During that time we did have the occasional mass shooting. But the mass shootings were nowhere near what it is now. The only change seems to be the way the media covers these mass murderers. Which is the media talks about them for weeks at a time in order to push for more anti2nd amendment laws. There some studies to suggest that mass shootings stories inspire other mass shootings.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/mass-shootings-are-contagious/
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How many laws do we need until someone realizes that you cannot expect people follow the law without any enforcement! I would have to definitely agree with you on the shooting intends to inspire others. Let’s go back to columbine high school where you were heard it was because of violence video games or the gothic music junk may have been a factor in the case. I would have to disagree with you because I don’t see people going out and, taking cars because of grand theft auto. I think it’s bunch of crap because people kill people. This conversation has gotten to politicize and, people can’t figure anything out because it’s about the firearm.


Can’t censor this Patriot
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

Slavister said:
From someone who studied this issue...
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“If we were to cure mental illness, all of it, tomorrow, how much of our violence problem would go down? It would go down about 4 percent,” said Swanson, who has studied the issue for the National Institutes of Health. “The mass shooters, with some exception, have been angry, alienated, emotionally troubled young men who act out these incredibly deviant cultural scripts and have access to firearms."

"There are tons of people who are risky, who are angry or suicidal, but who would pass a background check,” Swanson said. “They don’t have a felony conviction, they’ve never been involuntarily committed. How do you make sure dangerous people don’t get access to firearms?”
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An insider report from the National Institutes of Health will not tell you anything about the failure of psychology and psychiatry to treat the unconscious mind directly.

This reply from the APA tells us more when it is fully implied because of my inquiry to them, the ethics director left the organization. It was about basically treating the unconscious mind directly.
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PIPEWRENCH said:
Oh people who kill other people have something wrong upstairs. Just because our metal health diagnosis in this country is pathetic does not mean it is not a problem. We go to the dentist every 6 months and have our teeth checked but when it comes to mental problems most people have never even been examined. Plus while having your blood pressure checked every year is considered a wise decision getting a mental examination is taboo. Plus even if you do want to see a psychiatrist to discuss some problem you can put your job in jeopardy as well as your rights. If you do not seek treatment you can legally buy and own a gun. If you seek treatment everyone wants to take your gun away or stop you from owning one. We are so backward and pathetic in diagnosis of mental health as well as the way we treat people who are intelligent enough to seek help.
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We don't treat murderers as criminally insane unless they have a mental health diagnosis, otherwise all murderers would just plead insanity.

People who aren't criminally insane who murder others are treated as cold blooded and get locked away forever.

In common terms we may find murderers sick because 'who would do that?' but in reality a lot of murderers are not mentally ill. They were upset, got enraged, had a vendetta or wanted revenge, and they made a plan.

The massacres are all premeditated murder. I'm sorry but there had to be warning signs if anyone had half a brain to notice, especially the parents.
 
Northern Light said:
We don't treat murderers as criminally insane unless they have a mental health diagnosis, otherwise all murderers would just plead insanity.

People who aren't criminally insane who murder others are treated as cold blooded and get locked away forever.

In common terms we may find murderers sick because 'who would do that?' but in reality a lot of murderers are not mentally ill. They were upset, got enraged, had a vendetta or wanted revenge, and they made a plan.

The massacres are all premeditated murder. I'm sorry but there had to be warning signs if anyone had half a brain to notice, especially the parents.
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Oh there were warning signs. These people are sick and cannot hide their illness from the people around them. Of course a lot of them go into isolation before killing as well. I know this first hand because at 22 I did not believe some friends of mine would commit suicide until they were dead.
They clearly had mental issues. The fact is the average mentally stable person does not go out and kill. We are in our infancy when it comes to diagnosis and treatment of metal problems. Until we start having mental examinations the same as we have physical examinations of people the killing will continue.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
Oh there were warning signs. These people are sick and cannot hide their illness from the people around them. Of course a lot of them go into isolation before killing as well. I know this first hand because at 22 I did not believe some friends of mine would commit suicide until they were dead.
They clearly had mental issues. The fact is the average mentally stable person does not go out and kill. We are in our infancy when it comes to diagnosis and treatment of metal problems. Until we start having mental examinations the same as we have physical examinations of people the killing will continue.
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Regular mental examinations... I dunno. It probably has more to do with feeling connected and a sense of community. With modern technological interventions and all the distractions of the digital, people don't see each other as much face-to-face anymore. There have always been massacres in the U.S. but the frequency is so high now that we really ought to look at modern life. Decades ago before the internet kids played in the street and got up to mischief outdoors. Now they are fat and sedentary. Not to mention any nail that sticks out gets hammered down with drugs by the education system.

Also the media plays a role. Every time there is a shooting there is 24/7 coverage of the killer which only breeds copycats.

I think the modern world is a lot more isolating for everybody, but especially teenagers who are bullied or seen as eccentric and therefore are social outcasts. They turn to the computer where their dark thoughts can fester and their parents are too stupid to notice that their kid is spending way too much time alone in the garage working on "who knows what". I don't remember which teen killer it was (there have been so many) but he basically hung out in the garage after school for hours every day and the parents never even asked what that was about. Meanwhile he was hatching a plan.

I'm so attuned to my children that if something of that magnitude were happening I would at the very least sense that something was going on with them and I'd ask. Then again I have raised my children to have open communication with me about anything and everything they want to talk about. Despite his shame my son once told me he was being bullied hardcore at school. I went to the principal and put a stop to it and things got better.

How hard is it?
 
Northern Light said:
Regular mental examinations... I dunno. It probably has more to do with feeling connected and a sense of community. With modern technological interventions and all the distractions of the digital, people don't see each other as much face-to-face anymore. There have always been massacres in the U.S. but the frequency is so high now that we really ought to look at modern life. Decades ago before the internet kids played in the street and got up to mischief outdoors. Now they are fat and sedentary. Not to mention any nail that sticks out gets hammered down with drugs by the education system.

Also the media plays a role. Every time there is a shooting there is 24/7 coverage of the killer which only breeds copycats.

I think the modern world is a lot more isolating for everybody, but especially teenagers who are bullied or seen as eccentric and therefore are social outcasts. They turn to the computer where their dark thoughts can fester and their parents are too stupid to notice that their kid is spending way too much time alone in the garage working on "who knows what". I don't remember which teen killer it was (there have been so many) but he basically hung out in the garage after school for hours every day and the parents never even asked what that was about. Meanwhile he was hatching a plan.

I'm so attuned to my children that if something of that magnitude were happening I would at the very least sense that something was going on with them and I'd ask. Then again I have raised my children to have open communication with me about anything and everything they want to talk about. Despite his shame my son once told me he was being bullied hardcore at school. I went to the principal and put a stop to it and things got better.

How hard is it?
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There have always been massacres and killing. Look at the interactions between the European settlers and the native people here in New World. The native Americans massacred each other. Read the bible or how the Romans or the Arabs went around killing everyone. Look at the hate between the lions and the hyenas. A male lion or bull elephant draws an invisible line and you cross it you will die. Fighting and killing are part of life. it is our rational mind that can bring it to an end. Unfortunately there are still a lot of people who lose control of their rational mind and kill.
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

TheRepublican said:
How many laws do we need until someone realizes that you cannot expect people follow the law without any enforcement! I would have to definitely agree with you on the shooting intends to inspire others. Let’s go back to columbine high school where you were heard it was because of violence video games or the gothic music junk may have been a factor in the case. I would have to disagree with you because I don’t see people going out and, taking cars because of grand theft auto. I think it’s bunch of crap because people kill people. This conversation has gotten to politicize and, people can’t figure anything out because it’s about the firearm.


Can’t censor this Patriot
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The people who want these anti-2nd amendment laws passed the most don't care if it works. They want to severely restrict and or ban firearms. Each little gun control law is a baby step towards that goal.

I heard the nonsense from the lets blame video games and music crowd.Those people are just as wrong as the anti-2nd amendment trash who wish to severely restrict and or ban firearms. Because as you said if those things did have a factor into murders then there would be a whole **** load of murders seeing how violent video games and goth music crap is sold by the millions.
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

HonestJoe said:
You were, though you managed to skip all of the relevant (and well explained) clarification when you quoted the article;
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You're not supposed to quote an entire article. I agree the OP is a bit misleading.
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

ChrisABrown said:
An insider report from the National Institutes of Health will not tell you anything about the failure of psychology and psychiatry to treat the unconscious mind directly.

This reply from the APA tells us more when it is fully implied because of my inquiry to them, the ethics director left the organization. It was about basically treating the unconscious mind directly.
aparesponse.jpg
Click to expand...

The quote was not about ability or inability to treat. It was about IF we treated all, would that help much? Apparently not.
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

Slavister said:
The quote was not about ability or inability to treat. It was about IF we treated all, would that help much? Apparently not.
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I think the issue is that IF the public knows there is effective treatment, and currently the public knows there is no effective treatment, so does not seek it, but if there were effective treatment and people knew it, more people would seek treatment and there would be less shootings. The report assumes that there is effective treatment when there is not.
 
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