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FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness[W:139]

Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

vegas giants said:
Guns are not self explanatory. You are required to be trained on them in the military and for LEO. They don't work differently when in the hands of a civilian.
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That does not address your claim the training will weed out many mentally ill people
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

Chillfolks said:
That does not address your claim the training will weed out many mentally ill people
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I believe it will. It can only help. Do you think guns are self explanatory?
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

vegas giants said:
I believe it will. It can only help. Do you think guns are self explanatory?
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I've already explained that I'm for a training program when CC is concerned and why. I'm simply saying your claim that it will weed out many mentally ill people is false.
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

Chillfolks said:
I've already explained that I'm for a training program when CC is concerned and why. I'm simply saying your claim that it will weed out many mentally ill people is false.
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I think it will. I think it be for anyone that owns a gun.
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

vegas giants said:
I think it will. I think it be for anyone that owns a gun.
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What leads you to think that? Are you thinking a mental screening should be a requirement
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

Chillfolks said:
What leads you to think that? Are you thinking a mental screening should be a requirement
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I have worked with seriously mentally ill people for almost three decades. Almost all of them could complete the transaction to buy a gun. Most could not get thru two days of training
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

I don't appreciate being accused of being dishonest or omitting, I was just quoting part of the article to be concise. You can read the full article at the link and form your own opinion, obviously.

It probably does take a mentally ill person to go killing a bunch of people, but without a pre-diagnosis it's kind of an academic distinction, don't you think? After all, people can take rash action in the heat of the moment. Take suicide for example... a lot of people who fail at their attempt say they are glad they didn't succeed because they were reacting in the heat of the moment.

Some people have anger management problems, it doesn't make them mentally ill.

One common thread among many of the school shootings is that the perp was bullied or an outcast. To me this falls under the category of prevention. If a bystander like a teacher witnesses bullying but does nothing, then their inaction may contribute to the creation of a mass shooter later on.

The fact is, the FBI is saying that all of the perps exhibited signs that were reportable, but no one took action. We're not talking about witch hunts here, but clear signs. Whether or not they were "mentally ill" is irrelevant to their communities not giving a ****. So a root cause of the massacres is actually community apathy.
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

vegas giants said:
A training requirement would weed out many, not all, mentally ill people
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Please explain in detail how a training requirement would be able to diagnose mental health problems.
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

vegas giants said:
I have worked with seriously mentally ill people for almost three decades. Almost all of them could complete the transaction to buy a gun. Most could not get thru two days of training
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You've moved your goal posts from stopping many mentally ill people to now thinking most you supposedly know couldn't do it. You did this all without explaining how you came to this conclusion.
More and more it's looking like you pulled that theory out your back side hoping no one would call you out.
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

vegas giants said:
I have worked with seriously mentally ill people for almost three decades. Almost all of them could complete the transaction to buy a gun. Most could not get thru two days of training
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Please explain in detail what training you would require and how this would diagnose mental illness.
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

vegas giants said:
I believe it will. It can only help. Do you think guns are self explanatory?
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Pretty much yes. Millions of americans operate firearms with no formal firearms training and no accidents occur.
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

jaeger19 said:
Please explain in detail how a training requirement would be able to diagnose mental health problems.
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It does not diagnose anything. They simply could not complete the training. Most trainers would simply not pass them
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

jaeger19 said:
Pretty much yes. Millions of americans operate firearms with no formal firearms training and no accidents occur.
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And we have the highest gun death rate in the developed world
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

Chillfolks said:
You've moved your goal posts from stopping many mentally ill people to now thinking most you supposedly know couldn't do it. You did this all without explaining how you came to this conclusion.
More and more it's looking like you pulled that theory out your back side hoping no one would call you out.
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Okey dokey pokey. LOL
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

This is hard to believe because when a shooting occurred in a massive event or something for instance schools, concerts and whatever else it could happen. I have a hard time to dismiss mental issues because everyone is automatically going to yell ban guns and, I have a problem with people going after the guns because I’m going to take it as they are protecting the shooter. And, frankly honestly I think the Federal Bureau Of Investigation should point a Department who isn’t not involved with the biggest “witch hunt” should have some sociologies help them to build a report on these people who have thought of shooting someone


Can’t censor this Patriot
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

jaeger19 said:
Please explain in detail how a training requirement would be able to diagnose mental health problems.
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It won't. But the person making the claim will never admit they are wrong. Kind of their thing.
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

TheRepublican said:
This is hard to believe because when a shooting occurred in a massive event or something for instance schools, concerts and whatever else it could happen. I have a hard time to dismiss mental issues because everyone is automatically going to yell ban guns and, I have a problem with people going after the guns because I’m going to take it as they are protecting the shooter. And, frankly honestly I think the Federal Bureau Of Investigation should point a Department who isn’t not involved with the biggest “witch hunt” should have some sociologies help them to build a report on these people who have thought of shooting someone


Can’t censor this Patriot
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Now this is hilarious
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

Chillfolks said:
It won't. But the person making the claim will never admit they are wrong. Kind of their thing.
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When did I say it would.....exactly please
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

Chillfolks said:
Time for your but but but instead of admitting you are wrong about what the training will do
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Huh?....
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

Northern Light said:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ve-mental-illness-get-guns-legally/718283002/



Well this is interesting.

For years now I've assumed that the shooters mostly had some kind of mental illness, but I was wrong.

It turns out that the main reason that shootings happen is that people don't recognize the warning signs or don't report it. In other words, apathy.

Perhaps the solution is as simple as that. Don't take away guns, just increase citizen vigilance. Perhaps the same apathy that is plaguing our democratic system is the one responsible for the shootings, just not in the way that partisans have been arguing about. Just a thought.
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Well, hold on.

"In a new report released Wednesday, the bureau shed light on behaviors of shooters before they acted out, finding most obtained a gun legally and did not have diagnosed mental health issues, points that run contrary to some popular beliefs. . . The FBI could only verify that 25 percent of the gunmen examined in the study had any type of mental illness diagnoses, including disorders affecting mood, anxiety and personality. "

Diagnosed. Quite often, if someone has a mental disorder that flares up and leads to a crime (usually psychosis related to schizophrenia or something similar), that is the first time it manifests. They don't have a history of diagnoses. They just break with reality and bad things happen.

It should also be noted that if we talk about "mental illness" generally, the mentally ill are more likely to be the victims of violence in general than its perpetrators. If we're going to look at restrictions on mentally ill people owning guns, we need to make sure that specific kinds of mental illness have at least a very high correlation with specific types of violence.



I'd be interested in reading the actual report, when I have the time. It sounds like it's rather flawed from the start if it counts a lack of prior diagnosis as not having mental illness.
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

Northern Light said:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ve-mental-illness-get-guns-legally/718283002/



Well this is interesting.

For years now I've assumed that the shooters mostly had some kind of mental illness, but I was wrong.

It turns out that the main reason that shootings happen is that people don't recognize the warning signs or don't report it. In other words, apathy.

Perhaps the solution is as simple as that. Don't take away guns, just increase citizen vigilance. Perhaps the same apathy that is plaguing our democratic system is the one responsible for the shootings, just not in the way that partisans have been arguing about. Just a thought.
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Extreme violence is its own mental problem.

We have no effective mental health care and people know it. To avoid stigma they choose to express the anger rather than seek to end to torment and reverse it, they know there is no other way.

HOWEVER, academia, medicine and the church are linked and stopping treatment direct to the unconscious mind, which is in control of humans for the most part.

Bruce Lipton - The Secret of the Conscious and Subconscious Mind

Santa Barbara County colluded with state and federal courts as well as media to keep the public knowing from a lawsuit filed in federal court working to compel the county to follow state health can safety that directs the municipality to work with public in developing investigational and experimental treatments if there is a chance of death within two years.

Drug and alcoholism treatment was why 3 grandmothers and I filed the case and a copy was given to a reporter. Two weeks later she was fired or resigned. Six weeks later 16 other reporters and editors joined her and they were all gagged by the state court at the motion of the owner of the newspaper.

burns_hobbs_protest.jpg


Santa Barbara Secrets of media-Newspress, independent, county public defender.

All to stop effective mental health care attained by working directly with the unconscious mind.

So it is a fairly different situation than usatoday.com reports. If the PURPOSE of free speech was no abridged, you would know this.
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

vegas giants said:
A training requirement would weed out many, not all, mentally ill people
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How would training weed out any mentally ill? If anything, the training will make them more deadly.
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

Maccabee said:
How would training weed out any mentally ill? If anything, the training will make them more deadly.
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They wouldn't pass it in many cases
 
Re: FBI: Most shooters don't have mental illness

From someone who studied this issue...

“If we were to cure mental illness, all of it, tomorrow, how much of our violence problem would go down? It would go down about 4 percent,” said Swanson, who has studied the issue for the National Institutes of Health. “The mass shooters, with some exception, have been angry, alienated, emotionally troubled young men who act out these incredibly deviant cultural scripts and have access to firearms."

"There are tons of people who are risky, who are angry or suicidal, but who would pass a background check,” Swanson said. “They don’t have a felony conviction, they’ve never been involuntarily committed. How do you make sure dangerous people don’t get access to firearms?”
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