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Living with the threat of gun violence

veritas1 said:
Not too much. There is no requirement for you to keep proving that you are competent to drive in most states as far as I know. Pass an eye exam and you get your license renewed. Whether your car is registered or insured doesn't make you a safer driver.
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Repeated car accidents will often make getting insurance an expensive proposition. Leading to someone riding a bike or bus to go places
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
So a drivers license, license plates, insurance etc have no part in helping keep US streets safer for drivers, pedestrians etc?
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4,095 dead teens between the age of 16 and 19. 37,461 deaths overall. 5,419,000 crashes in 2010 alone. Overall 3,613,732 vehicular fatalities...to say nothing of debilitating injuries.

So...no...not so much.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Sure I do

I think Canada should lower corporate taxes, reduce some regulations. I would dearly love to see Canada slap some export tariff on raw crude to make it profitable to build more upgraders and refineries in Canada.

Overall Canada being right next to, exposed to the US on a daily basis, see's what seems to work and what does not seem to work in the US. If it works Canada likely has no issue in trying to adopt it
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Why are you not interested in emulating more gun restricted countries?
 
X Factor said:
So by that same “logic”, should we restrict and severely limit the number of cars in the US? How many lives would that save?
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Canada does not restrict the number of guns a person has, just the types.

Both Canada and the US restrict the types of cars for sale in both countries. If they do not meet safety, environmental etc standards they are not allowed to be sold (at least when new) in either country. You know to save lives
 
X Factor said:
So by that same “logic”, should we restrict and severely limit the number of cars in the US? How many lives would that save?
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Why do you people make these assinine arguments to deflect from the real issue. It's always the same unoriginal comments, slippery slopes moving the goal post, and deflection. Cars serve a purpose, it is vital to transport us from place to place. An absolute necessity that society couldn't function without.

Guns are for killing. Certain guns are for killing as many people as possible. THey serve no other purpose. If there was no guns, society would still function.

That "we should ban cars" argument is as dumb and dishonest as claiming we should have no laws because there will always be people to break it, which someone has even implied in this thread

If you have a valid reason why it is stupid to think the solution to the absurd gun violence in this country is less guns is a stupid idea, please, let's hear it. I want facts, logic and reasoning, not deflecting questions and one liners.
 
SheWolf said:
So you're acknowledging that more and more guns does not make us safer.
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More and more guns logically means that more people will be shot than in countries where the population doesn’t have guns, that includes people shot while they’re committing crimes, etc.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
In the US you have regulations on the types of cars, where the cars can go, along with registration of them

In the US you have regulations the are designed to ensure food safety. Commercial food sellers are regulated and inspected to ensure the safety of the food they produce and sell to the general public.

I would say both are poor examples to use when discussing gun control, where the majority of people who want it want registration and regulation not a total ban
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And yet, with the thousands upon thousands of laws dealing with automobiles, there are millions of cases of thefts, speeding, reckless driving, hit and runs, driving without license, insurance and registration, etc. Laws do not stop law breaking.


And yet, there are constant cases of food bourn illnesses, cockroach and rodent infestations, etc.

There are thousands of regulations and registrations for gun owners. Think a little.
 
X Factor said:
Why are you not interested in emulating more gun restricted countries?
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Given the requirement for farmers and ranchers to have rifles and shotguns, that hunting is a right for natives, and that in generally target shooting with a handgun can be enjoyable the overall level of gun regulation in Canada is at a fairly good point. It could be improved probably but it is not really required in my opinion. Overall levels of gun related violence is currently low
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Canada does not restrict the number of guns a person has, just the types.

Both Canada and the US restrict the types of cars for sale in both countries. If they do not meet safety, environmental etc standards they are not allowed to be sold (at least when new) in either country. You know to save lives
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And technically there is no definition of what "arms" is in the 2nd amendments, so even restricting gun types in the US would not be considered unconstitutional. You could still be free to have arms, just not certain types, and your rights would not be infringed
 
itsforthekids said:
And yet, with the thousands upon thousands of laws dealing with automobiles, there are millions of cases of thefts, speeding, reckless driving, hit and runs, driving without license, insurance and registration, etc. Laws do not stop law breaking.


And yet, there are constant cases of food bourn illnesses, cockroach and rodent infestations, etc.

There are thousands of regulations and registrations for gun owners. Think a little.
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So you suggest getting rid of all regulations on cars and food because they do not work 100%?
 
According to UN and other data, the US is #1 in per capita gun ownership but #94 in the world in intentional homicide. Canada is #10 in gun ownership but #158 in intentional homicide. Norway is #8 in gun ownership yet #206 in intentional homicide. So, there are many factors in play besides the number of guns you have.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
So you suggest getting rid of all regulations on cars and food because they do not work 100%?
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No. I'm saying that facts are facts. Not ONE of the mass shootings over the last 20 years would have been stopped by any existing or proposed law or regulation. They all happened due to the actions of a criminal, which was already against the law.
 
veritas1 said:
Not too much. There is no requirement for you to keep proving that you are competent to drive in most states as far as I know. Pass an eye exam and you get your license renewed. Whether your car is registered or insured doesn't make you a safer driver.
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I haven't taken an actual driving test in 40 years.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
So you suggest getting rid of all regulations on cars and food because they do not work 100%?
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No, but the GCAs are crying out for more gun laws because the ones we have don't work 100%.
 
Sampson Simpson said:
Why do you people make these assinine arguments to deflect from the real issue. It's always the same unoriginal comments, slippery slopes moving the goal post, and deflection. Cars serve a purpose, it is vital to transport us from place to place. An absolute necessity that society couldn't function without.

Guns are for killing. Certain guns are for killing as many people as possible. THey serve no other purpose. If there was no guns, society would still function.

That "we should ban cars" argument is as dumb and dishonest as claiming we should have no laws because there will always be people to break it, which someone has even implied in this thread

If you have a valid reason why it is stupid to think the solution to the absurd gun violence in this country is less guns is a stupid idea, please, let's hear it. I want facts, logic and reasoning, not deflecting questions and one liners.
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No, the whole point to this thread is acknowledging that, yes increasing the availability of anything means increasing the good and bad that comes with it but, frankly, so what? I’m sure very few of us want to go back to a time before cars, even though a large amount of people get killed by cars.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Canada does not restrict the number of guns a person has, just the types.

Both Canada and the US restrict the types of cars for sale in both countries. If they do not meet safety, environmental etc standards they are not allowed to be sold (at least when new) in either country. You know to save lives
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What types of guns can't be used to kill someone?
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Given the requirement for farmers and ranchers to have rifles and shotguns, that hunting is a right for natives, and that in generally target shooting with a handgun can be enjoyable the overall level of gun regulation in Canada is at a fairly good point. It could be improved probably but it is not really required in my opinion. Overall levels of gun related violence is currently low
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But they could be lower. This is my whole point. The risk of being shot is greater for you than it would be where there were even fewer guns, but you’re happy to live with whatever the risk is to have the availability you think you should have.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
In the US you have regulations on the types of cars, where the cars can go, along with registration of them

In the US you have regulations the are designed to ensure food safety. Commercial food sellers are regulated and inspected to ensure the safety of the food they produce and sell to the general public.

I would say both are poor examples to use when discussing gun control, where the majority of people who want it want registration and regulation not a total ban
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And yet there is little to no objection to the much much higher numbers of deaths and injuries caused by vehicles. We accept the death toll, we love our cars and the convenience.

Registration is useless in preventing crime. We just have had a couple of threads on that. Canada instituted it and it's mostly a failure and a very costly one. One which would be much much more expensive to institute in the US.

People are usually open to regulation that would actually prevent gun crimes and not ONLY penalize the law-abiding.
 
Gaius46 said:
What threat? I don't walk out of my house every morning worrying that I'm gonna be shot. If you don't engage in criminal activities and don't decide to kill yourself your chances of getting shot are pretty remote.

I worry about taxis and buses in lower Manhattan.
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"If I thought I needed a gun, I wouldnt go there."

Do you think people expect to be victimized by crime? Do you think people say the same thing about getting in their cars every day...where they are at much much higher risk of death or harm?

House fires and boats sinking are pretty rare occurrences. People still have smoke alarms, fire extinguishers, and life vests.
 
veritas1 said:
I haven't either.
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I have never taken the car driving test. I had been on a motorcycle for almost half a decade before switching to a car. I took my driving test on a motorcycle. They kept insisting I get a car and I told them I had no access to a car. Finally they walked me out into the parking lots and I rode in circles, figure eights, real slow and finally hit the brakes to show I had the skill set.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Handguns are more difficult, requiring a background check (that is actually checked) before being able to purchase one legally. The use of a handgun is quite restricted however, the carrying of one is generally limited to between your home and the gun range. When travelling with one it has to be in a locked case, and you have to take with you your approved route to the gun range. So stopping at Costco on the way home or to the range can get you in trouble.
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Exactly. And this perfectly reasonable behavior (carrying a firearm for self-defense) is criminalized.

The firearm is useless for self-defense and a citizen would be punished by a criminal sentence and record...for doing something perfectly safe and natural here in most US states.

Do you think that anyone *intending* to commit a crime or harm someone...would follow that law?
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Is it a bad idea to look at how other people, companies, states, countries do things to see if perhaps what is done by you, your company, your state or country could be improved?

Now lets look at the overall arguement

Canada and the US both regulate food and auto's for safety, some differences, and both are generally safe for people to eat, or be around in the case of cars. I expect overall death rates for Canadians and Americans when it comes to food and cars are generally the same

Canada has stricter gun regulations. You can get rifles and shotguns, go hunting with them without too much of an issue. Just get a license/permit requiring a fairly easy background check and pass a firearms course. There are restrictions on magazine size however, and if wanted you can get a tacticool AR15 with all the toys.

Handguns are more difficult, requiring a background check (that is actually checked) before being able to purchase one legally. The use of a handgun is quite restricted however, the carrying of one is generally limited to between your home and the gun range. When travelling with one it has to be in a locked case, and you have to take with you your approved route to the gun range. So stopping at Costco on the way home or to the range can get you in trouble.

Canada does have gun deaths and murders from guns, we have gangs in our cities (some of our smaller cities in Sask have very serious gang issues) but our overall violence from guns is much lower. Canadian culture is probably the most similar to that of the US. So comparing Can culture to that of the US is the most apt, if discussing cultural aspects of why gun violence.

So why not look at what make Canada's gun violence rate so much lower than that of the US, as a possible means to address the issue of gun violence in the US
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Actually you can buy any car you wish in the US as long as it will not be used on public roadways.
 
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