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Understanding the disarmament mentality

TurtleDude

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands
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One of the best written articles I have seen in over 40 years

Understanding the Civilian Disarmament Mindset – Concealed Nation
[FONT=&quot]The gun culture has the Constitution, facts, physics, and basic human nature on its side. It’s only when the information flow about these is suppressed that those who wish the population disarmed win. That’s why restrictions on gun ownership and their use are often rushed through legislatures. It’s why those opposing the Second Amendment also tend to oppose First Amendment rights. If deliberate thought and careful argument and analysis take place, Second Amendment supporters tend to win.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In the United States, above most of the rest of the world, citizens have the choice to be legally armed. Or unarmed, for that matter. Most people in the U.S. want to keep that option. Most of the rest of the world wishes it had the choice.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]©2018 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice and link are included.[/FONT]
 
Jetboogieman said:
It reinforces every single thing you already believe, this is hardly shocking you'd say this.
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maybe you could actually refute something in his well written comment. what really upsets the anti gun posters on this board is the huge disparity in the amount of intellectual energy expended by the pro gun advocates compared to the anti gun advocates. The lies and absolutely idiotic comments from the anti gun posters is massively higher than the amount of mendacity provided by the pro freedom posters.
 
TurtleDude said:
maybe you could actually refute something in his well written comment. what really upsets the anti gun posters on this board is the huge disparity in the amount of intellectual energy expended by the pro gun advocates compared to the anti gun advocates. The lies and absolutely idiotic comments from the anti gun posters is massively higher than the amount of mendacity provided by the pro freedom posters.
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Why bother? You'll just call people gun grabbers and stomp your feet.
 
NeverTrumpGOP said:
Why bother? You'll just call people gun grabbers and stomp your feet.
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Banning guns would just bring a black market and more crime. Look at the Prohibition Era or the War on Drugs.
 
enderpotato00 said:
Banning guns would just bring a black market and more crime. Look at the Prohibition Era or the War on Drugs.
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I’ve been saying this for years, no one listens.
 
NeverTrumpGOP said:
How does that have anything to do w/what I just said??
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Cause you think TurtleDude will only call people who disagree gun grabbers? He's literally trying to defend a right that the bill of rights has given us.
 
NeverTrumpGOP said:
Why bother? You'll just call people gun grabbers and stomp your feet.
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If you don't think you're up to it, just say so.

Otherwise, make the attempt.
 
NeverTrumpGOP said:
Why bother? You'll just call people gun grabbers and stomp your feet.
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why don't you tell me what posters or posts from you who oppose the gun rights positions deal in logic and well reasoned arguments. Take a look at my signature-that's par for the course
 
enderpotato00 said:
Cause you think TurtleDude will only call people who disagree gun grabbers? He's literally trying to defend a right that the bill of rights has given us.
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Harshaw said:
If you don't think you're up to it, just say so.

Otherwise, make the attempt.
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How can I make an attempt w/a person who thinks my positions are not logical but emotional?

TurtleDude said:
why don't you tell me what posters or posts from you who oppose the gun rights positions deal in logic and well reasoned arguments. Take a look at my signature-that's par for the course
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So predictable. You don't think strong gun policies are logical or reasonable so therefore, nothing I say will change your mind.
 
NeverTrumpGOP said:
Why bother? You'll just call people gun grabbers and stomp your feet.
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He addresses people like you in the article

Once the decision has been made to be unarmed, many of their reactions to gun owners become understandable. Unarmed people are often uncomfortable around those of us who own and carry guns. Armed people have a significant power advantage over unarmed people. Many unarmed people don’t want to be reminded that armed people have that power. To avoid this, they want to force other people to be disarmed.

That explains why some unarmed people dislike concealed carry, but absolutely hate open carry. Open carry forces them to confront the power differential they have chosen. It reminds them of an unpleasant reality and they feel intimidated.
 
NeverTrumpGOP said:
How can I make an attempt w/a person who thinks my positions are not logical but emotional?



So predictable. You don't think strong gun policies are logical or reasonable so therefore, nothing I say will change your mind.
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Cause the arguments are emotion-based.
 
NeverTrumpGOP said:
How can I make an attempt w/a person who thinks my positions are not logical but emotional?



So predictable. You don't think strong gun policies are logical or reasonable so therefore, nothing I say will change your mind.
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can you actually make a logical argument that is based on a realistic chance of reducing violent criminals rather than slaking your hatred of those who supported Trump?
 
TurtleDude said:
One of the best written articles I have seen in over 40 years
The gun culture has the Constitution, facts, physics, and basic human nature on its side.
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Already one of the dumbest articles I've read in 35 years.

The constitution says the right to bear arms.... So why don't I have access to nuclear arms? Why can't I buy surface to air missiles capable of downing a C-17? Wouldn't I need access to those if I ever found myself in a position where I needed to defend the free state from tyranny?

Facts...lol... didn't even bother to cite one supposed fact. Meanwhile
https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/03/americas/us-gun-statistics/index.html

Physics... ummm wut? What the **** do physics have to do with gun control arguments? The only way I could see physics playing into this discussion is asking how exactly the ability to fire 100 rounds with accuracy at a distance in less than a minute could possibly constitute a "defensive" necessity.

Basic Human nature: Umm... if basic human nature was pro-gun, then you wouldn't see polls trend toward gun control immediately following a mass shooting. In fact, the whole reason we needed a Bill of Rights, the whole reason you cite facts, and the whole point of exhaustive scientific study like the kind used in physics is to make absolutely certain we don't make emotional gut instinct decisions out of fear that in hind sight don't actually make sense. So which is it? Do you have the constitution, facts, and physics on your side, or do you have basic human nature.

The truth is that you only think it's basic human nature to need a gun, because it's YOUR basic instincts. But the reason certain types of people tend to gravitate towards powerful weapons is because they themselves feel powerless. It is insecurity and fear that drive certain people to think they need guns. For the gun nuts, having a gun by your side is a lot like getting drunk. Instead of liquid confidence it's weapon confidence. Carrying a gun on you at all times makes you feel like you take on the world, and hand anything. But just like alcohol your confidence is misplaced. The truth is that even if you found yourself in a situation where your gun might actually be useful you'd probably be dead before you could even take the safety off. Either that or you'd be so over come with fear and adrenaline, that you wouldn't be able to hit the broad side of a barn anyways. There was a stat I saw yesterday that was hilarious. It said that approximately 70% of all shots fired by police officers miss their target. Think about that. These are trained professionals and when the **** hits the fan they can shoot straight either.

Take a little friendly advice. If you ever find yourself in a shootout situation your best odds for survival are to run and hide. Confronting the shooter with your own gun should be your last resort, and you'd be better off letting the police handle it.
 
TurtleDude said:
One of the best written articles I have seen in over 40 years

Understanding the Civilian Disarmament Mindset – Concealed Nation
The gun culture has the Constitution, facts, physics, and basic human nature on its side. It’s only when the information flow about these is suppressed that those who wish the population disarmed win. That’s why restrictions on gun ownership and their use are often rushed through legislatures. It’s why those opposing the Second Amendment also tend to oppose First Amendment rights. If deliberate thought and careful argument and analysis take place, Second Amendment supporters tend to win.
In the United States, above most of the rest of the world, citizens have the choice to be legally armed. Or unarmed, for that matter. Most people in the U.S. want to keep that option. Most of the rest of the world wishes it had the choice.
©2018 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice and link are included.
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Nothing but a hack piece. Not surprising. Let's just take one of the more absurd comments it makes, without any research to support.

That explains why some unarmed people dislike concealed carry, but absolutely hate open carry. Open carry forces them to confront the power differential they have chosen. It reminds them of an unpleasant reality and they feel intimidated.
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That's just nonsense. If I'm around people I know and trust (and I've been around more than my fair share over the years), the fact they are carrying a gun (openly or concealed) causes absolutely zero physiological reaction within me. It's when people I don't know, people who could every bit as crazy as every mass shooter we've seen in the past decade, have a gun that my adrenaline starts pumping. For comparison's sake, if that same person was openly carrying a machete and was advancing on me, I'd feel exactly the same.

It's not the gun, it's the fact our country does an absolutely wretched job ensuring those who do have them actually are "responsible" and "self-disciplined". This theory floated without a shred of research to support it is just nothing more than gun porn, a way for a gun owner to feel superior for no reason at all, for a gun owner to get their jollies off as they worship at the altar of a firearm.

Let's examine another stupid statement:

Because you have chosen to be unarmed, you know you need an armed protector to keep you safe.
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I wouldn't need an armed protector if I knew the person breaking into my home didn't have a firearm.

Over and over, it's the same useless rhetoric with zero research behind it. The fact you think it is "one of the best written articles" you've seen suggests a severe lack of scholarly pursuits in your "40 years". When one tries to pretend they are a psychologist and doen't even begin to understand the basic psychology or argument of the opposition they are pre-emptively trying to rebut, then their words hold absolutely no meaning.

Now, let's see if you can respond to this intelligently without using the words "bannerhoid" "anti-gunner" "gun hater" or something of similar stupidity.
 
TurtleDude said:
He addresses people like you in the article

Once the decision has been made to be unarmed, many of their reactions to gun owners become understandable. Unarmed people are often uncomfortable around those of us who own and carry guns. Armed people have a significant power advantage over unarmed people. Many unarmed people don’t want to be reminded that armed people have that power. To avoid this, they want to force other people to be disarmed.

That explains why some unarmed people dislike concealed carry, but absolutely hate open carry. Open carry forces them to confront the power differential they have chosen. It reminds them of an unpleasant reality and they feel intimidated.
Click to expand...

Um, I'm glad owning a gun makes you feel strong???
 
TurtleDude said:
can you actually make a logical argument that is based on a realistic chance of reducing violent criminals rather than slaking your hatred of those who supported Trump?
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I don't think having guns reduces the chance of a violent...anything.
 
Why is it that whenever the topic of responsible gun ownership is raised, it's the "responsible" owners who rush to man the barricades to protest being held responsible?
 
NeverTrumpGOP said:
Um, I'm glad owning a gun makes you feel strong???
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That's the best argument. Gun owners crave the power a gun brings, and feel helpless without it, but then accuse those who advocate for reform as being intimidated.

The irony is incredible.
 
NeverTrumpGOP said:
How can I make an attempt w/a person who thinks my positions are not logical but emotional?
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Most of your arguments are emotional, but it doesn't absolve you from trying to mount a logical refutation of the article.

You just don't want to.
 
enderpotato00 said:
Cause the arguments are emotion-based.
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yes and no. the average person who buys into anti gun arguments often does so out of emotional reasons because that is what those who engage in such pandering appeal to. Those who conceive of and promote anti gun schemes are machiavellian and have often have planned for years their anti gun programs which are designed to advance left wing politicians and policies.
 
Slyfox696 said:
That's the best argument. Gun owners crave the power a gun brings, and feel helpless without it, but then accuse those who advocate for reform as being intimidated.

The irony is incredible.
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I have a feeling a lot of it is compensating for something else
 
Slyfox696 said:
That's the best argument. Gun owners crave the power a gun brings, and feel helpless without it, but then accuse those who advocate for reform as being intimidated.

The irony is incredible.
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Thats because we really don't want to government to get bigger, cause then they can easily take rights away if they want.
 
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