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The Problem With "Common-Sense" Gun Laws

Rich2018 said:
Common Sense gun laws can only start if the 2nd amendment was repealed.
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anything that violates the constitution is not common sense. common sense laws attack criminal misuse of firearms, rather than banning what honest people can own
 
TurtleDude said:
anything that violates the constitution is not common sense. common sense laws attack criminal misuse of firearms, rather than banning what honest people can own
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I just stick with the maxim: "Common sense is neither common, nor is it often sensible."
 
Fiddytree said:
I just stick with the maxim: "Common sense is neither common, nor is it often sensible."
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LOL, my late mother-a frequent world traveler-used to say that about the "Civil servants" who staffed customs and Visa offices here and abroad
 
From the rubric article:
What's different this time is this shooting is inspiring more people to ask the question gun rights' supporters have been raising for years: What "common-sense gun laws" would have stopped this?
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All or nothing: That a specific provision would not prevent every form and fashion of gun violence is an unsound basis for rejecting the provision's implementation.​

  • I have no idea what "common-sense gun laws" that have been proposed would have stopped the Santa Fe shooting. Though gun control advocates may not have proposed curtailing access to shotguns, such a provision may or may not have prevented the Santa Fe shooting.
  • The fact of the matter is that the boy stole the gun he used from his parent(s)/father (?). I don't know whether gun control advocates have advanced passing laws that mandate lawful gun owners be held accountable for inadequately maintaining their firearms, but I have. (See attachment or my thread on the topic)
  • The thing that gun rights advocates have for years been ignoring by asking the noted question is that regulations/laws proposed by gun control advocates aim to reduce the overall incidence of gun deaths/injuries, not (1) to prevent any specific incident that's already occurred or that may occur or (2) to completely eliminate unlawful gun deaths/violence.
    • One might wonder how much reduction is empirically "enough" or "too much." The answer is pretty easy to calculate and below is presented the information needed to do so.
      • A human life is, by several government agencies' quantification, worth from ~$9M to ~$10M.
      • The contribution of the firearms industry to U.S. GDP is about $32B.
      • Thus ~3200 unlawful gun-related deaths per year is the quantity of deaths that, upon being exceeded, the cost of those deaths surpass the value the firearms industry contributes to the U.S. economy.
      • On average, there are ~13K gun-related homicides in the U.S each year, and gun related homicides account for ~64% of all homicides in the U.S., of which ~1000 are homicides of "civilians" by police that, for the sake of this post, one may consider as ostensibly lawful gun-related deaths. (Note: The first image below is presented only to corroborate the 64% figure.)

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Attachments

  • Accountability for Gun Ownership.jpg
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the vast majority of unlawful homicides involving firearms are perpetrated by individuals who commit federal and usually state felonies by merely possessing a firearm
 
Rich2018 said:
Common Sense gun laws can only start if the 2nd amendment was repealed.
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Go for it. The best thing that could possibly happen for the future of this nation is that establishment politicians start campaigning on repealing the 2A.
 
Xelor said:
From the rubric article:

​
All or nothing: That a specific provision would not prevent every form and fashion of gun violence is an unsound basis for rejecting the provision's implementation.​

  • I have no idea what "common-sense gun laws" that have been proposed would have stopped the Santa Fe shooting. Though gun control advocates may not have proposed curtailing access to shotguns, such a provision may or may not have prevented the Santa Fe shooting.
  • The fact of the matter is that the boy stole the gun he used from his parent(s)/father (?). I don't know whether gun control advocates have advanced passing laws that mandate lawful gun owners be held accountable for inadequately maintaining their firearms, but I have. (See attachment or my thread on the topic)
  • The thing that gun rights advocates have for years been ignoring by asking the noted question is that regulations/laws proposed by gun control advocates aim to reduce the overall incidence of gun deaths/injuries, not (1) to prevent any specific incident that's already occurred or that may occur or (2) to completely eliminate unlawful gun deaths/violence.
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      • Rights aren't based on an economic equivalence, nor does you analysis include the value of the lives saved by firearms in defensive gun use. Given that many homicide victims are themselves violent felons, you may be overstating the value of those lives, too.
 
Rucker61 said:
Rights aren't based on an economic equivalence, nor does you analysis include the value of the lives saved by firearms in defensive gun use. Given that many homicide victims are themselves violent felons, you may be overstating the value of those lives, too.
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The point to which you've pivoted is not the point of the post to which you replied. Insofar as the point is at the very start of the post, how you missed it beyond me....I know only that your remarks don't address it.
 
Xelor said:
The point to which you've pivoted is not the point of the post to which you replied. Insofar as the point is at the very start of the post, how you missed it beyond me....I know only that your remarks don't address it.
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Then quit posting shiploads of drivel and tripe.
 
Rich2018 said:
Common Sense gun laws can only start if the 2nd amendment was repealed.
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Not going to happen. Nobody will take you seriously if you go around proposing that.
 
DebateChallenge said:
Enforcing laws doesn't work? Its common sense that if you're going to have laws you need to enforce them.
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And yet it does not work anywhere on earth. You have to have good laws if you want a good result
 
vegas giants said:
Nah....Nyc has them
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And you talk about how NYC is so safe. Well how about Pahrump in Nevada? Pahrump is much less restrictive with guns than NYC and it has a lower crime rate.
 
DebateChallenge said:
And you talk about how NYC is so safe. Well how about Pahrump in Nevada? Pahrump is much less restrictive with guns than NYC and it has a lower crime rate.
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Yes Pahrump is exactly like NYC. My god did you actually write that? LOL
 
vegas giants said:
And yet it does not work anywhere on earth. You have to have good laws if you want a good result
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It doesn't matter how "Good" laws are if like our current laws they are not enforced properly
 
Chillfolks said:
It doesn't matter how "Good" laws are if like our current laws they are not enforced properly
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Actually it does. You can NOT enforce a set of lousy laws. Effective gun control is MUCH easier to enforce. Developed countries all over the world do it with great results
 
vegas giants said:
Actually it does. You can NOT enforce a set of lousy laws. Effective gun control is MUCH easier to enforce. Developed countries all over the world do it with great results
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Do those other countries have as supreme law a right to own arms that limit what kinds of laws can be made?

You like to repeat the same vauge line about passing effective gun control but are vague on details of what would be effective
 
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