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It's the Guns[W:1198, W:1943]

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calamity

calamity

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At other moments, we’re told that the problem is that we need to do a better job guessing which troubled teens may prove murderous at some point in the future, or dealing with the excesses of masculinity, or possibly the crisis of meaning and identity in the secularizing modern world. As always, though, there is a simpler and more powerful explanation of why there has been no similar school shooting in Germany since 2009; or in Canada since 2016; none in the United Kingdom since 1996—while conversely, more young Americans have died in school shootings in 2018 than in all the nation’s combat operations all over the world.*


The answer is almost insultingly simple and has the virtue only of being true: It’s the guns.


https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/05/its-the-guns/560771/
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You bet it is.

American gun culture in the 2010s is as blithely irresponsible as American alcohol culture in the 1960s.

According to a Pew survey, only about one-quarter of gun owners think it essential to alert visitors with children that guns may be present in the home. (Twice as many non-gun-owners think so.) Only 66 percent of gun owners think it essential to keep guns locked up when not in use. (Ninety percent of non-gun-owners think so.) Only 45 percent of them actually do it.

This carelessness and disregard is taking lives and breaking families.
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calamity said:
You bet it is.
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Ban guns and you have less gun crime.

You can't commit gun crime without guns.


Of course if you criminalize gun ownership, the only people with guns will be criminals.
This is correct, in the same way that the only people in possession of child porn are criminals.
 
Rich2018 said:
Ban guns and you have less gun crime.

You can't commit gun crime without guns.


Of course if you criminalize gun ownership, the only people with guns will be criminals.
This is correct, in the same way that the only people in possession of child porn are criminals.
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Should we not ban child porn?
 
vegas giants said:
Should we not ban child porn?
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Of course.

If there was a national organization that wanted to promote possession of child porn, would you accept their argument that criminalizing child porn would mean that the only people with child porn would be criminals ?
 
This is where the anti-gunners stop lying and admit that an all out ban has been the objective all along.
 
Rich2018 said:
Of course.

If there was a national organization that wanted to promote possession of child porn, would you accept their argument that criminalizing child porn would mean that the only people with child porn would be criminals ?
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I don't see your point
 
apdst said:
This is where the anti-gunners stop lying and admit that an all out ban has been the objective all along.
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You can have guns and gun control
 
apdst said:
This is where the anti-gunners stop lying and admit that an all out ban has been the objective all along.
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I wouldn't go that far.

But yes, the vast majority of guns should be banned. In fact gun control legislation should focus on what is permitted rather than what is banned.
 
Rich2018 said:
I wouldn't go that far.

But yes, the vast majority of guns should be banned. In fact gun control legislation should focus on what is permitted rather than what is banned.
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I agree that Democrats should campaign on this premise.
 
vegas giants said:
I don't see your point
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An argument that the NRA (and anti-gun control people) use is that if possession of guns is criminalized, then the only people with guns will be criminals.

This is not an argument at all.

To rephrase it, the only people with child porn are criminals and no-one seems to object to that. (you could substitute heroin, crack, cocaine etc for child porn).
 
Rich2018 said:
An argument that the NRA (and anti-gun control people) use is that if possession of guns is criminalized, then the only people with guns will be criminals.

This is not an argument at all.

To rephrase it, the only people with child porn are criminals and no-one seems to object to that. (you could substitute heroin, crack, cocaine etc for child porn).
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I see. Thanks. And I agree
 
Obviously.

Gun violence has something to do with Guns!? Wow, we had people in this nation who really belied that was false? Say it isn't so.
Deadly weapons should be regulated!?! Crazy!
 
calamity said:
You bet it is.
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If ones intent for having firearms is for protection, keeping them "locked up" defeats that purpose.

FWIW most of ours are unavailable and unseen when we have company.
 
Rich2018 said:
An argument that the NRA (and anti-gun control people) use is that if possession of guns is criminalized, then the only people with guns will be criminals.

This is not an argument at all.

To rephrase it, the only people with child porn are criminals and no-one seems to object to that. (you could substitute heroin, crack, cocaine etc for child porn).
Click to expand...

There is nothing socially redeeming or innocuous about the existence or possession of child porn. Firearms ownership is, for the vast majority of the time, not a risk to society at all and with understood benefits. That you conflate the two is telling.
 
Mach said:
Obviously.

Gun violence has something to do with Guns!? Wow, we had people in this nation who really belied that was false? Say it isn't so.
Deadly weapons should be regulated!?! Crazy!
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How do you wish to regulate all deadly weapons?
 
Go right ahead and try to ban them on the federal level! Dare you!
That should be the democratic party platform for 2018. BAN THE GUNS!
Please oh please do it! Ask Bill Clinton how the assault weapons ban worked for the dems
in the next election after it was passed. ;)
 
Bill Clinton blame the assault weapons ban for the large loss.

The 1994 United States House of Representatives election (also known as the Republican Revolution) was held on November 8, 1994, in the middle of President Bill Clinton's first term. As a result of a 54-seat swing in membership from Democrats to Republicans, the Republican Party gained a majority of seats in the United States House of Representatives for the first time since 1952 and a majority of votes for the first time since 1946. It was also the largest seat gain for the Republican Party since 1946, and the largest for either party since 1948.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_1994
 
Rich2018 said:
Ban guns and you have less gun crime.

You can't commit gun crime without guns.


Of course if you criminalize gun ownership, the only people with guns will be criminals.
This is correct, in the same way that the only people in possession of child porn are criminals.
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Yes... because criminals obey laws and won't use (or have) guns!

Got it!
 
calamity said:
You bet it is.
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It's not about the guns. Guns, at large, are inanimate objects. It's about preventing guns from becoming lethal weapons while in the hands of the criminally deranged.
Read the Pew Gun Report cited by the author of your biased Frum opinion piece to learn what it's really about.

Responsible law abiding gun owners are not responsible for fixing the hearts and minds of those who are intent on using gun violence as their means to harm others. We need to enforce the laws already on the books, doing everything possible to keep guns out of the hands of the violently mentally ill. That is the only way we will prevent another mass shooting. Watch for the red flags, see something say something, stress the importance to gun owners that they must lock up guns, and hold those gun owners responsible who don't.

Other than that, it's time to stop scapegoating responsible gun owners and their "guns" as the problem.
 
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