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Background checks can’t prevent gun violence — because the NRA designed them to fail

itsforthekids said:
Laws are necessary in order to keep order. Congress cannot make laws that infringe on your constitutional rights.
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That must be your way of admitting you were wrong.
 
Bodhisattva said:
It means gun ownership is consent to be militia.
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No it doesn't, never has nor will, that's a fat lie created to keep stupid people thinking they understand the constitution.
 
Renae said:
No it doesn't, never has nor will, that's a fat lie created to keep stupid people thinking they understand the constitution.
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Anybody that can read basic English can read it for themselves...

Oh dear, the troll line was laid, this thread is toast
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Oh golly...
 
itsforthekids said:
Laws are necessary in order to keep order. Congress cannot make laws that infringe on your constitutional rights.
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So simple but beyond the comprehension of those who wish to take away our rights and replace them with government granted privileges. Government was supposed to protect our rights not restrict them. The bill of rights is only a short and incomplete list of the rights of free people. We should be adding to the list of rights not taking them away or restricting them. A government that no longer serves the people but wishes to rule them needs replacing.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Anybody that can read basic English can read it for themselves...



Oh golly...
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Obviously you've failed at English then. It happens, being able to admit it is the first step to understanding.
 
Renae said:
Obviously you've failed at English then. It happens, being able to admit it is the first step to understanding.
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"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Ablative absolute... look it up.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Background checks can’t prevent gun violence — because the NRA designed them to fail

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Although long, a good read on why current gun control measures are failing us.
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That article seems to push for national registration. No thanks. Question for the author of said article: he wrote:

Parkland shooter Nikolas Cruz is just one recent example. The roll call of killers who have defeated the instant check system is almost without end: James Holmes, Jared Loughner, Seung-Hui Cho, Omar Mateen, Aaron Alexis, Elliot Rodger, Wade Michael Page, Ian Stawicki, Steven Kazmierczak. All of them were approved by NICS despite displaying multiple red flags for unstable, violent behavior that were picked up by family, friends, classmates, law enforcement or the military. There should be ample doubt about the viability of instant screening.
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How many of those named were actually put into the system in the first place? The system must be used to be successful. If authorities do not do their jobs :shrug: As with any system, garbage in, garbage out.
 
Bodhisattva said:
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Ablative absolute... look it up.
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Bodhisattva said:
It means gun ownership is consent to be militia.
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How did you come to that conclusion?

I don't see anything implying that consent is needed or that ownership is restricted to militia membership.
 
Chillfolks said:
How did you come to that conclusion?

I don't see anything implying that consent is needed or that ownership is restricted to militia membership.
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He's playing to a modern literal understanding of words and using it not to make a valid argument but rather stir people up. Engage him at your own detriment.
 
Rucker61 said:
We have one. Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution empowers Congress, and it says:

"The Congress shall have Power To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia..
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The whole concept of a "militia" is outdated. Sure they existed 250 years ago...the second amendment reflects this. It is a relic of the 18th century.

A militia is about as relevant today as a sheriff's posse (probably less relevant).


So now that the need for a militia has long since passed, surely the need for the 2nd amendment has also passed its sell by date - by about 200 years.
 
Bodhisattva said:
That right is in the 2nd.... it means all gun owners should be part of the militia... and the NRA cant save what cant be taken away...
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Where does the 2nd Amendment make membership in the militia mandatory?
 
Rich2018 said:
The whole concept of a "militia" is outdated. Sure they existed 250 years ago...the second amendment reflects this. It is a relic of the 18th century.

A militia is about as relevant today as a sheriff's posse (probably less relevant).


So now that the need for a militia has long since passed, surely the need for the 2nd amendment has also passed its sell by date - by about 200 years.
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Agreed . Time for a rewrite
 
Bodhisattva said:
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Ablative absolute... look it up.
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Given that Congress has absolute power to to restrict and regulate the arms of the militia as stated in Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution, how can the Second Amendment protect the arms of the militia at all?
 
itsforthekids said:
You're wrong. It's already been decided by the scotus. Thank God that the founding fathers had the wisdom to put in the 2nd amendment. They read and wrote about great thinkers from before them. These men were great thinkers themselves. They took their instructions from the idea that man can only be governed by God, not by other men. Self defense is an inalienable right. Who are you to take that right away?
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Are you implying that a gun is the only means of self defense?

Is the second amendment a god-given right?

What would the founding fathers define as an "arm"?
 
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Rucker61 said:
Go for it. Find a recent red/blue map of the states. Start counting red states. Stop when you get to 13.
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Oh god you are so boring when you keep repeating yourself. Get a new line
 
Bodhisattva said:
What part of for a "well regulated militia" dont gun nuts understand?
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What part of 'militia and people are separate entities' don't you understand ??
 
Bodhisattva said:
What part of for a "well regulated militia" dont gun nuts understand?
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What part of 'militia and people are separate entities' don't you understand ??
 
beancounter said:
Are you implying that a gun is the only means of self defense?

Is the second amendment a god-given right?

What would the founding fathers define as an "arm"?
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A) it certainly beats whatever #2 is. B) My protection and the protection of my family are from god, so we as American citizens have the God given right to own a firearm. C) They meant firearms as is clearly defined in their writings.
See...the gun grabbers forget that there are writings which describe the meaning of the constitutional rights. If your government is armed, so shall the people be. Makes perfect sense.
 
Rucker61 said:
Given that Congress has absolute power to to restrict and regulate the arms of the militia as stated in Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution, how can the Second Amendment protect the arms of the militia at all?
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It does not say that they have absolute power to restrict and regulate arms of the militia... It does say that they are "To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia" though...

https://usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html
 
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