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Worst Country in the Developed World?

trixare4kids said:
I doubt that you truly think our country is becoming like Somalia but if you do, nothing else I can say but offer you the link below:

Somalia Is The Most Failed State On Earth - Business Insider
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And guess who bears a great deal of responsibility for that, trix?

World ignored U.S. war crime in Somalia | Rideau Institute
World ignored U.S. war crime in Somalia | Rideau Institute
Feb 1, 2016 - The 2011 famine in Somalia was a U.S.-created war crime, according to journalist Alex Perry, and nobody paid much attention. In an interview ...

U.S. War Crimes in Somalia
hornofafrica.ssrc.org/de_Waal3/
Feb 28, 2007 - By Alex de Waal. From the New Left Review, 30, 1998, 131-144. In his foreword to Mogadishu!: Heroism and Tragedy, Ross Perot wrote: 'Read ...

An accused war criminal now works security at a U.S. airport - CNN
https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/01/us/accused-war-criminal-works-at.../index.html
Jun 2, 2016 - He's accused of war crimes in Somalia. ... He passed a background check to work at Dulles International Airport near Washington, DC. (CNN)An accused war criminal living in the United States is now working as a security guard at Dulles International Airport near Washington, DC.
 
Felis Leo said:
And despite this, more people want to move to the United States and raise their children here than other country on the Earth; and a much smaller degree of emigration (people leaving the country with no intention of returning). And that is even after Trump was elected. :shrug:
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When will that silly old canard be put out to pasture? Of course people want to leave their countries where the US is killing their children and move right up tight with the biggest Mafia gang ever and pay protection money to the US government.
 
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Gaius46 said:
And Illinois is very restrictive in terms of gun laws and Vermont effectively has none. Which potentially says much about the correlation, or lack thereof, of legal firearm ownership and gun crime but that is not the topic of this thread.
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The top gun violence states have loose gun laws. Shouldn’t they be last, not first, if more guns are supposed to make communities safer? Why are you instead comparing Illinois and Vermont when there is only a .6 difference between the two?
 
camlok said:
When will that silly old canard be out to rest? Of course people want to leave their countries where the US is killing their children and move right up tight with the biggest Mafia gang ever and pay protection money to the US government.
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Really? Is that why you want to move to the United States, camlok? Or remain here if you are just a self-loathing American? You speak like someone who has never before in their life spoken to an actual immigrant.
 
Felis Leo said:
Really? Is that why you want to move to the United States, camlok? Or remain here if you are just a self-loathing American?
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One silly canard after another. What is next, FL?

This really doesn't help your position you know. Are Germans self loathing because they happen to be much much much more honest than Americans. They regret their war crimes, Americans relish theirs.
 
camlok said:
One silly canard after another. What is next, FL?

This really doesn't help your position you know.
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Well, here is my question: Have you ever spoken to an immigrant who gave you that as a reason for wanting to immigrate to the United States? "The United States government killed members of my family, so I want to move there and start a life"?
 
Geoist said:
The top gun violence states have loose gun laws. Shouldn’t they be last, not first, if more guns are supposed to make communities safer? Why are you instead comparing Illinois and Vermont when there is only a .6 difference between the two?
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It’s dishonest to compare the statistics of entire States when the vast majority of violence happens in one very small section of a city In that State.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Geoist said:
The top gun violence states have loose gun laws. Shouldn’t they be last, not first, if more guns are supposed to make communities safer? Why are you instead comparing Illinois and Vermont when there is only a .6 difference between the two?
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My point is that the ease with which legal firearms are available is not a predictor of gun violence. You have to look somewhere else - poverty rates, availability of mental health etc etc.

While you may be right that the top gun violence have loose gun laws so do the least gun violence states: Vermont, New Hampshire, Utah, Idaho, Iowa, Minnesota, Wyoming, North Dakota all have lower gun murder/homicide rates than the nationwide average.

The Illinois and Vermont comparison is simply an example of that point.



(Note - I'm not including suicide in my numbers, just murder and non-negligent homicides)
 
Aberration said:
It’s dishonest to compare the statistics of entire States when the vast majority of violence happens in one very small section of a city In that State.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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That makes no sense. Every state is going to have cities that are worse in crime than the rest of the state.
 
Geoist said:
That makes no sense. Every state is going to have cities that are worse in crime than the rest of the state.
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Try reading slower. Or get someone else to help.
 
Gaius46 said:
My point is that the ease with which legal firearms are available is not a predictor of gun violence. You have to look somewhere else - poverty rates, availability of mental health etc etc.


While you may be right that the top gun violence have loose gun laws so do the least gun violence states: Vermont, New Hampshire, Utah, Idaho, Iowa, Minnesota, Wyoming, North Dakota all have lower gun murder/homicide rates than the nationwide average.

The Illinois and Vermont comparison is simply an example of that point.



(Note - I'm not including suicide in my numbers, just murder and non-negligent homicides)
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It is easy to be a loose gun law state in the middle of the pack when you have... loose gun law states ahead of you. Look at the lowest 10 in gun crime rates. Almost all strict gun law states. Yes, there are exceptions to the rule. Yes, there are other factors like poverty and mental health. However, compare to other countries along with states and it is clear strict gun laws usually lead to less gun violence.

Why not include suicides? I’m sure you’d agree suicide rates are a public health concern.
 
Geoist said:
It is easy to be a loose gun law state in the middle of the pack when you have... loose gun law states ahead of you. Look at the lowest 10 in gun crime rates. Almost all strict gun law states. Yes, there are exceptions to the rule. Yes, there are other factors like poverty and mental health. However, compare to other countries along with states and it is clear strict gun laws usually lead to less gun violence.

Why not include suicides? I’m sure you’d agree suicide rates are a public health concern.
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You bet. Hanging/suffocation suicide rate has grown by 88% since 1999 (compared to 13% for the firearm rate) with over 11k deaths per year and no one is lobbying to limit access to items useful in hanging/suffocation suicides. It's like they just don't care.
 
Geoist said:
It is easy to be a loose gun law state in the middle of the pack when you have... loose gun law states ahead of you. Look at the lowest 10 in gun crime rates. Almost all strict gun law states. Yes, there are exceptions to the rule. Yes, there are other factors like poverty and mental health. However, compare to other countries along with states and it is clear strict gun laws usually lead to less gun violence.

Why not include suicides? I’m sure you’d agree suicide rates are a public health concern.
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But they aren't middle of the pack they are all in the lowest quartile for gun murder and for crime in general. That's rounded out by Hawaii, Massachusetts and Rhode Island which do have strict gun laws. As an interesting aside Hawaii, despite having strict gun laws, has the 10th highest rate of gun ownership in the country (45% of households). We've been using - or at least I've been using- strictness of firearms laws as a proxy for ownership and while that may hold in some cases it clearly doesn't in all.

Suicide is a public health concern. I agree. My issue with firearms and suicide is simply that someone who decides to purchase a firearm has willingly accepted the risk that he, or someone in his family may use the firearm to commit suicide. That's a personal choice, presumably made by a competent individual and as such isn't, to my mind, a place where society or the government has a right to interfere.
 
Rucker61 said:
You bet. Hanging/suffocation suicide rate has grown by 88% since 1999 (compared to 13% for the firearm rate) with over 11k deaths per year and no one is lobbying to limit access to items useful in hanging/suffocation suicides. It's like they just don't care.
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You do realize a firearm is used in 1/2 of US suicides?
 
enderpotato00 said:
Go to Somalia. It is 10x worse than what you're claiming here.
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Seriously?

You are comparing the great United States of Amurica to Somalia? A country that can't feed its people, can't maintain a government and is rife with disease. That's your comparison?

You REALLY are a ****hole
 
Xelor said:
What do you consider the "developed world?"
  • OECD nations?
  • Something else?

Worst in what context?
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Go to Google, type "developed world" and you will find sites that specifically address that question from the stand points of culture, political science, crime rate, standard of living etc.

I suggest if you are going to be involved in a political debate site you might want to avail yourself of political science terminology and to do some research on your own; be different and actually know something about which you are commenting
 
The term "developed country" is completely subjective. Where is the line between developed countries and developing and underdeveloped countries? If you're talking about OECD member states then the most dangerous developed country is Mexico which has a murder rate of roughly twice of America's. If you are talking about countries with a "very high" score on the human development index, then Russia is the most dangerous developed country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developed_country

The homicide rate in the US is roughly 5 per 100,000 which is actually below the global average of 6.2 per 100,000 (that does not include war deaths).
 
The worst is ostensibly Saudi Arabia:

921px-2016_UN_Human_Development_Report_%28Quartiles%29.svg.png
 
The USA.
..
1- Subjective media.
2- Bought out politicians.
3- Imperialist millitary and economy.
4- worst record in forign interfierances.
5- mariginalized population.
 
Gaius46 said:
But they aren't middle of the pack they are all in the lowest quartile for gun murder and for crime in general.
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Wyoming is nowhere close to the lowest quartile. In fact, it is in the highest quartile. Utah and Idaho are in the highest half, not the lowest quartile. Yes, there are exceptions like Vermont, ND, NH, etc. I have already stated there are other factors in play. That does not change the reality that the top half is dominated by loose gun law states while the bottom half is dominated by strict gun law states. Remember, the argument gun advocates make is that more guns make communities safer. That is not the trend according to state statistics (let alone developed country statistics).


That's rounded out by Hawaii, Massachusetts and Rhode Island which do have strict gun laws. As an interesting aside Hawaii, despite having strict gun laws, has the 10th highest rate of gun ownership in the country (45% of households). We've been using - or at least I've been using- strictness of firearms laws as a proxy for ownership and while that may hold in some cases it clearly doesn't in all.
Click to expand...

Hawaii also requires gun safety classes, fingerprinting of owners, and proof of mental fitness. They also ban certain guns that are legal in other states. But thank you for (kind of) acknowledging most of the bottom quartile are strict gun law states.


Suicide is a public health concern. I agree. My issue with firearms and suicide is simply that someone who decides to purchase a firearm has willingly accepted the risk that he, or someone in his family may use the firearm to commit suicide. That's a personal choice, presumably made by a competent individual and as such isn't, to my mind, a place where society or the government has a right to interfere.
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Well, I certainly don't believe someone who attempts suicide should be arrested, but it should be enough of a public concern that our legislators should consider the vulnerability when it comes to legislation of gun laws.
 
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ataraxia said:
Obama's legacy has not yet been completely erased. We still have some laws and regulations. Wait till the Republicans are done with it.
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Well, what are the laws and regulations that the Obama administration specifically put in place which you believe appeals to immigrants? Because I find it difficult to believe that the United States only became a place desirable place to immigrate to for people the world over during the eight-year window that President Obama was in office.
 
Geoist said:
Wyoming is nowhere close to the lowest quartile. In fact, it is in the highest quartile. Utah and Idaho are in the highest half, not the lowest quartile. Yes, there are exceptions like Vermont, ND, NH, etc. I have already stated there are other factors in play. That does not change the reality that the top half is dominated by loose gun law states while the bottom half is dominated by strict gun law states. Remember, the argument gun advocates make is that more guns make communities safer. That is not the trend according to state statistics (let alone developed country statistics).




Hawaii also requires gun safety classes, fingerprinting of owners, and proof of mental fitness. They also ban certain guns that are legal in other states. But thank you for (kind of) acknowledging most of the bottom quartile are strict gun law states.




Well, I certainly don't believe someone who attempts suicide should be arrested, but it should be enough of a public concern that our legislators should consider the vulnerability when it comes to legislation of gun laws.
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I assume you're including suicides in your numbers. The murder by gun rate in Wyoming in 2015 was 1.7/100,000. In Utah it was 1.1 and Idaho 1.5. The nationwide median that year was 4.4/100,000 and the mean 4.1 or thereabouts.

I understand that Hawaii has stringent rules around firearms but they also have, as I pointed out, a lot of guns there and not a lot of gun crime, which I believe supports my point that it isn't guns per se.
 
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