• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

So, Did the shooter in Santa Fe, Texas use a shotgun?

Status
Not open for further replies.
TurtleDude said:
there are lots of stupid people who want to ban guns. I think the gun banners are trying to start a civil war. you cannot logically ban AR 15s without banning tons of other guns.
Click to expand...

I want schools hardened so gun rights are not restricted.
 
Rucker61 said:
Similar like pump shotguns and .38 revolvers?
Click to expand...

You will have to ask those who will try to pass a ban if more efforts are not seriously made to enforce the laws we have and efforts made to harden security in our schools.
 
Last edited:
Lursa said:
Knowledge of the issues.

Ability to raise funds.
Click to expand...

I agree.

We need join forces in a constructive way to enforce the gun laws we have , and harden security at our schools.
 
minnie616 said:
I agree.

We need join forces in a constructive way to enforce the gun laws we have , and harden security at our schools.
Click to expand...

That doesn't work anywhere
 
Rucker61 said:
"Anyway, I just wanted to drop you a line and let you know that I now actually do want to take your guns.

All of your guns.

Right now."

No he doesn't. He wants someone else with guns to take away all our guns.
Click to expand...
I know because assholes like him would be crapping their pants if they tried to take someone's guns away and the person told him to stick it where the light don't shine
 
Rucker61 said:
"Anyway, I just wanted to drop you a line and let you know that I now actually do want to take your guns.

All of your guns.

Right now."

No he doesn't. He wants someone else with guns to take away all our guns.
Click to expand...

Hear that......they are coming. LOL
 
minnie616 said:
Then gun owners and the NRA should be demanding that law enfocement/ military and other agencies enforce And report anyone not complying with the laws we have otherwise gun rights will become restricted.
Click to expand...
I agree. We should enforce the laws we've got.
 
minnie616 said:
By not helping with a solution an Assault Weapons ban similar to 1990s will happen.
Click to expand...
You do know what the Assault Weapons ban was about, don't you? An "Assault Weapon" as defined by law was a semiautomatic firearm that had certain cosmetic features such as pistol grips, adjustable stocks, bayonet lugs, flash suppressors, ect. Also, magazines that held over 10 rounds were banned. Silly to ban a weapon based on cosmetic features if you ask me.
 
DebateChallenge said:
You do know what the Assault Weapons ban was about, don't you? An "Assault Weapon" as defined by law was a semiautomatic firearm that had certain cosmetic features such as pistol grips, adjustable stocks, bayonet lugs, flash suppressors, ect. Also, magazines that held over 10 rounds were banned. Silly to ban a weapon based on cosmetic features if you ask me.
Click to expand...

I do know that. Did you see the CNN with The Parkland Students, the NRA rep., Senator Marco Rubio , and others about the Parkland students , and questions they wanted to ask these people? Did you see the reaction of the students and the audience when Sen.Rubio tried to explain the same things you are posting right now? They did not care,they did not want to hear that, they just want the AR and other guns with those certain cosmetic features you described gone..., cut up , drilled up, broken up into little pieces, destroyed , unable to ever kill a student ever again. Your argument is not going to change their minds. Believe me a few months ago I was right there with them. I changed my mind , but it was not because of arguments like yours and others on this board that posted the same type arguments.

I did not change my mind because TurtleDude called me gun hater ,a hater of the NRA , all kinds of other mean, untrue things he could think of . I feel that t kind of posting is never constructive and just adds to the division. Too me it does not ever qualify as debating.

I did not change my mind because of posts on this board that said how rare school schooling are, etc.

It doesn’t matter how rare...the fear is real for our students safety and the fear is still there.

I changed my mind because I care about making our schools safer from school shooters and the best way to make that happen is to work together to harden our schools and keep the school shooters from gaining access to the building.

We have a lot of division in our country and their are also forces in other governments that trive on keeping us divided and distracted from the real issue. The real issue is making our school children and teens safer in schools.

Those of us who are not a part of the solution are a part of the problem.
 
Last edited:
minnie616 said:
I did not change my mind because of posts on this board that said how rare school schooling are, etc.

It doesn’t matter how rare...the fear is real for our students safety and the fear is still there.

I changed my mind because I care about making our schools safer from school shooters and the best way to make that happen is to work together to harden our schools and keep the school shooters from gaining access to the building.

We have a lot of division in our country and their are also forces in other governments that trive on keeping us divided and distracted from the real issue. The real issue is making our school children and teens safer in schools.

Those of us who are not a part of the solution are a part of the problem.
Click to expand...

No, it's making them feel safer in schools. Statistically they are already pretty safe. If we wanted to make a real measurable impact on their safety we'd raise the driving age to 19. We'd require helmet and neck braces in cars. We'd turn off the text feature on phones above a certain speed.

School shootings are indeed so rare that the billions of dollars spend in new security measures will have minimal impact. The only way to reduce the fear is to get them to zero, which money alone can't do. All metal detectors will do is create a mass of unprotected targets right outside the metal detectors, TSA security doesn't protect the people. The people are still extraordinary vulnerable to an attack in the security lines. How bug of a bomb could fit in a carry on suitcase set off in line. TSA only protects the airplanes.
 
Rucker61 said:
No, it's making them feel safer in schools. Statistically they are already pretty safe. If we wanted to make a real measurable impact on their safety we'd raise the driving age to 19. We'd require helmet and neck braces in cars. We'd turn off the text feature on phones above a certain speed.

School shootings are indeed so rare that the billions of dollars spend in new security measures will have minimal impact. The only way to reduce the fear is to get them to zero, which money alone can't do. All metal detectors will do is create a mass of unprotected targets right outside the metal detectors, TSA security doesn't protect the people. The people are still extraordinary vulnerable to an attack in the security lines. How bug of a bomb could fit in a carry on suitcase set off in line. TSA only protects the airplanes.
Click to expand...

Then you are leaving it the people who want to ban guns.

And mark my word if the vast majority of Americans feel schools cannot be made safer from the school shooters who wish to target our children while in class , then they will come after your guns.

Your argument will not protect your gun rights.

People need hope that we can be safer.
 
Last edited:
minnie616 said:
Then you leaving the people the choice of banning guns.

So be us.
Click to expand...

you plan on helping confiscating those guns? your thinking is flawed-you clearly support gun banning because you readily support it unless the NRA and gun owners do the impossible-come up with other solutions to nutcases getting guns. Sorry, in this society with our FREEDOMS, evil people will always be able to kill others. Our goal is to allow the victims the power to kill those nutcases ASAP. You are setting up a scenario so you can pretend that gun bans were not your initial desire

its dishonest.
 
TurtleDude said:
you plan on helping confiscating those guns? your thinking is flawed-you clearly support gun banning because you readily support it unless the NRA and gun owners do the impossible-come up with other solutions to nutcases getting guns. Sorry, in this society with our FREEDOMS, evil people will always be able to kill others. Our goal is to allow the victims the power to kill those nutcases ASAP. You are setting up a scenario so you can pretend that gun bans were not your initial desire

its dishonest.
Click to expand...

My post was a typo.
I edited it.
( I actually typed the word it instead of us)
 
Last edited:
minnie616 said:
Then you are leaving it the people who want to ban guns.

And mark my word if the vast majority of Americans feel schools cannot be made safer from the school shooters who wish to target our children while in class , then they will come after your guns.
Click to expand...

I understand the perceived value of security theater. I also understand that most Americans don't understand how safe our schools are now. If we have 50 million kids queued up outside a school to get through the metal detectors every day of the 180 days a year school is in session in the 130,000 K-12 schools, some madman is going to take advantage of those unprotectable targets at some point. We know that about 110 K-12 kids have been murdered by someone with a gun on a school campus in or out of session in the last twenty years, and that's regarded as an unacceptable state of affairs and horrendous tragedy while over that same time period 22,000 kids age 15-18 have died in car wrecks, and that's just the price of convenience so parents don't have to drive their kids around anymore and the kids don't have to wait for mass transit. The numbers are there; only one seems to be important to the average innumerate American.

Your argument will not protect your gun rights.
Click to expand...

That's the sad part.

People need hope that we can be safer.
Click to expand...

They don't care about being safer - they just want to feel safer. From guns. Not from anything else, especially those conveniences that have such a high death rate attached to them.
 
Rucker61 said:
I understand the perceived value of security theater. I also understand that most Americans don't understand how safe our schools are now. If we have 50 million kids queued up outside a school to get through the metal detectors every day of the 180 days a year school is in session in the 130,000 K-12 schools, some madman is going to take advantage of those unprotectable targets at some point. We know that about 110 K-12 kids have been murdered by someone with a gun on a school campus in or out of session in the last twenty years, and that's regarded as an unacceptable state of affairs and horrendous tragedy while over that same time period 22,000 kids age 15-18 have died in car wrecks, and that's just the price of convenience so parents don't have to drive their kids around anymore and the kids don't have to wait for mass transit. The numbers are there; only one seems to be important to the average innumerate American.



That's the sad part.



They don't care about being safer - they just want to feel safer. From guns. Not from anything else, especially those conveniences that have such a high death rate attached to them.
Click to expand...

don't forget the fact that most of the people pushing for gun bans don't even believe the reasons they advance for gun bans
 
minnie616 said:
I do know that. Did you see the CNN with The Parkland Students, the NRA rep., Senator Marco Rubio , and others about the Parkland students , and questions they wanted to ask these people? Did you see the reaction of the students and the audience when Sen.Rubio tried to explain the same things you are posting right now? They did not care,they did not want to hear that, they just want the AR and other guns with those certain cosmetic features you described gone..., cut up , drilled up, broken up into little pieces, destroyed , unable to ever kill a student ever again. Your argument is not going to change their minds. Believe me a few months ago I was right there with them. I changed my mind , but it was not because of arguments like yours and others on this board that posted the same type arguments.
Click to expand...
Whether or not it changes their minds is irrelevant in the long run. The important thing is for the general public to know what the government defines as an "assault weapon" and that these so called "assault weapons" are not "weapons of war" as they're not the kinds of weapons soldiers would use. Soldiers use fully automatic weapons or burst fire weapons which fire in three round bursts. These so called "assault weapons" are semi automatics, you get one shot per pull of the trigger. Once the general public knows that and knows that such weapons are only called assault weapons because of their cosmetic features, if these students don't want to hear that and don't change their mind and keep ranting and raving about getting rid of assault weapons that are only defined as such because of cosmetic features, they will just look like village idiots and nobody will take them seriously and their cause will go nowhere.

minnie616 said:
I did not change my mind because TurtleDude called me gun hater ,a hater of the NRA , all kinds of other mean, untrue things he could think of . I feel that t kind of posting is never constructive and just adds to the division. Too me it does not ever qualify as debating.
Click to expand...
Mean and untrue? It might not be true that you're any of those things but as for being mean, as you've pointed out you're not such a person but some people would take being called such stuff as a compliment.

minnie616 said:
I did not change my mind because of posts on this board that said how rare school schooling are, etc.

It doesn’t matter how rare...the fear is real for our students safety and the fear is still there.
Click to expand...
Well it is rare. While I was in school grades K-12 and when I was in college there was never a school shooting at any of the schools I was at. It was not a concern. To worry about school shootings when I was in school would be like worrying about being hit by a meteor. But I see your point. House fires are rare and we still have smoke detectors and fire extinguishers in our house as well as insurance. Its good to be prepared just in case a rare disaster does happen.

minnie616 said:
I changed my mind because I care about making our schools safer from school shooters and the best way to make that happen is to work together to harden our schools and keep the school shooters from gaining access to the building.
Click to expand...
Than this is where we agree. And Im quite sure Andrew Pollack would agree with us. Andrew's own daughter was killed in the Parkland shooting so if anybody would be worked up about school shootings it would be people like him, and even he says its not about gun laws its about making schools more secure. The same way we made airports more secure after 9/11. 9/11 happened once and that was it, we've never had it happen again. Why? Because we've hardened our airports. The same thing should be done with schools.

minnie616 said:
We have a lot of division in our country and their are also forces in other governments that trive on keeping us divided and distracted from the real issue. The real issue is making our school children and teens safer in schools.
Click to expand...

Well yes people should be safe when they go to school and they should be safe everywhere else. As for the issue of making schools safer which you point out, there is much disagreement on how that should be done.


minnie616 said:
Those of us who are not a part of the solution are a part of the problem.
Click to expand...
Again, I agree.
 
Rucker61 said:
No, it's making them feel safer in schools. Statistically they are already pretty safe. If we wanted to make a real measurable impact on their safety we'd raise the driving age to 19. We'd require helmet and neck braces in cars. We'd turn off the text feature on phones above a certain speed.

School shootings are indeed so rare that the billions of dollars spend in new security measures will have minimal impact. The only way to reduce the fear is to get them to zero, which money alone can't do. All metal detectors will do is create a mass of unprotected targets right outside the metal detectors, TSA security doesn't protect the people. The people are still extraordinary vulnerable to an attack in the security lines. How bug of a bomb could fit in a carry on suitcase set off in line. TSA only protects the airplanes.
Click to expand...
You're right about metal detectors would leave unprotected targets outside but that's how it is with any security checkpoint. There is always going to be that soft area right outside security where there's going to be lots of people. That's how the bombing in Manchester, England happened. I think one of the best measures is to tell people to be alert. That is much of why we haven't had another 9/11.
 
Rucker61 said:
I understand the perceived value of security theater. I also understand that most Americans don't understand how safe our schools are now. If we have 50 million kids queued up outside a school to get through the metal detectors every day of the 180 days a year school is in session in the 130,000 K-12 schools, some madman is going to take advantage of those unprotectable targets at some point. We know that about 110 K-12 kids have been murdered by someone with a gun on a school campus in or out of session in the last twenty years, and that's regarded as an unacceptable state of affairs and horrendous tragedy while over that same time period 22,000 kids age 15-18 have died in car wrecks, and that's just the price of convenience so parents don't have to drive their kids around anymore and the kids don't have to wait for mass transit. The numbers are there; only one seems to be important to the average innumerate American.



That's the sad part.



They don't care about being safer - they just want to feel safer. From guns. Not from anything else, especially those conveniences that have such a high death rate attached to them.
Click to expand...
Such ridiculous whataboutism. We can not address kids being shot in math class because we have even bigger problems in other areas. It is insulting and disgraceful to say that. We can not do what works all over the world. It is just sad
 
vegas giants said:
Such ridiculous whataboutism. We can not address kids being shot in math class because we have even bigger problems in other areas. It is insulting and disgraceful to say that. We can not do what works all over the world. It is just sad
Click to expand...

Yes, we cannot ban guns. We cannot make owning any type of firearm a privilege. That's what works on other countries.

We cannot prevent anyone from shooting up a crowd of kids waiting outside of school to pass through security to get to math class.
 
Rucker61 said:
Yes, we cannot ban guns. We cannot make owning any type of firearm a privilege. That's what works on other countries.

We cannot prevent anyone from shooting up a crowd of kids waiting outside of school to pass through security to get to math class.
Click to expand...

What you are saying is we can not protect our kids. That is total bs
 
vegas giants said:
What you are saying is we can not protect our kids. That is total bs
Click to expand...

Do those other countries you reference obliquely ban any guns? Is gun ownership a right or a government-permitted privilege there? How about naming a few?
 
Rucker61 said:
Do those other countries you reference obliquely ban any guns? Is gun ownership a right or a government-permitted privilege there? How about naming a few?
Click to expand...

Here is the better question.

Are their kids getting shot in math class?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom