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So, Did the shooter in Santa Fe, Texas use a shotgun?

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Rucker61 said:
Over half of the mass shootings with AR-15s had 6 or less dead.

What if he had an M1 Carbine with 30 round magazines?
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Las Vegas? The Cruz shooting? etc etc.

Don't embarrass yourself by running from the obvious.
 
minnie616 said:
I guess you missed my post a few pages before.
A lot of school districts do not want their teachers to be armed

The school districts in state of Florida are overwhelmingly rejecting the idea of arming some of their teaching staff even though the state has set has passed a bill/program and set aside funds to train teachers who meet certain criteria.

From the following article:




Read more here: Florida's largest districts may not arm school staff | Miami Herald

Florida's largest districts may not arm school staff | Miami Herald

Even Parkland Florida where 17 students and staff were killed in the February 14, 2018 school school which bought about the new bill/program to train and allow certain teachers to carry in the school are refusing to allow their teachers to carry.

From:

Parkland school district votes against arming teachers

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/parkland-school-shooting-arming-teachers-vote-today-2018-04-10/
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Very very well said.
 
jet57 said:
Wrong: I grew up around guns and owned my first at 12. I was on a rifle team and have a sharpshooter's medal, and I own three guns now. So, what IF that kid had had an AR15? Can you imagine what would have happened with IT? That's why those things need to be banned. Our country has gotten mean and meaner since 1980 and the gun culture has gotten louder and louder, so copycat incidents with weapons that make statements have become the trend. Errant parents need to be prosecuted so that others will learn to keep their's locked up. This is gonna keep goin too unless we really do something about it; November's on the way...
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And yet you do not know that a shotgun is not a rifle!
 
jet57 said:
Yeah; a shotgun IS a rifle; it uses a different load.
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A rifle requires rifling; shotguns are nearly all smoothbore. Not the same thing. They are both long guns, however.
 
jet57 said:
Las Vegas? The Cruz shooting? etc etc.

Don't embarrass yourself by running from the obvious.
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Stop embarrassing yourself with the deliberate ignorance of the M1 Carbine point.
 
haymarket said:
You did not answer my two questions with any direct answer. I wonder why you would do that?
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I did answered them directly. Teachers can already blow away students if they snap. There is no physical barrier to prevent a disgruntled teacher from bringing a gun to school as the recent shooting proves that. If a teacher blows away a student, the other teachers/staff who are armed can respond or at least defend the room they are in. Also if a teacher can snap to the point of killing students, then he has no business being a teacher in the first place. Your question and reasoning can be applied to police stations. What if an officer snap and decides to blow away his fellow officers?

As for the second, while it's unfortunate, it's better to have one student die because of crossfire than 17 students dead because no one was able to fight back. If such a thing were to happen, then there are already laws and liabilty that deal with this kind of thing.
 
Maccabee said:
I did answered them directly. Teachers can already blow away students if they snap. There is no physical barrier to prevent a disgruntled teacher from bringing a gun to school as the recent shooting proves that. If a teacher blows away a student, the other teachers/staff who are armed can respond or at least defend the room they are in. Also if a teacher can snap to the point of killing students, then he has no business being a teacher in the first place. Your question and reasoning can be applied to police stations. What if an officer snap and decides to blow away his fellow officers?

As for the second, while it's unfortunate, it's better to have one student die because of crossfire than 17 students dead because no one was able to fight back. If such a thing were to happen, then there are already laws and liabilty that deal with this kind of thing.
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There is a Grand Canyon of difference between a mentally disturbed teacher wrongly smuggling weapon into a school building, snapping and using it versus a situation where you are teachers as a matter of legal practice and encourage it and then something accidentally goes wrong with that.

If you cannot see that difference - I really don't know how to deal with you.

Liability laws??????:shock::doh:roll: How do they make that teacher sleep at night after accidentally killing the wrong person? Explain how the liability laws remedy that mental burden?
 
haymarket said:
There is a Grand Canyon of difference between a mentally disturbed teacher wrongly smuggling weapon into a school building, snapping and using it versus a situation where you are teachers as a matter of legal practice and encourage it and then something accidentally goes wrong with that.
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How is an accident to blow someone away in the heat of the moment?
If you cannot see that difference - I really don't know how to deal with you.

Liability laws??????:shock::doh:roll: How do they make that teacher sleep at night after accidentally killing the wrong person? Explain how the liability laws remedy that mental burden?
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That's kinda irrelevant. While accidentally shooting someone is a mental burden, your personal mental burden doesn't help the kids being shot right in front of you. Deal with the threat now and deal with the mental burden later. There are counseling that deals with this sort of thing.
 
Maccabee said:
He was confined to one room pretty much from the get go.
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https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...line-how-30-minute-attack-unfolded/625913002/

Dimitrios Pagourtzis carried out Friday’s deadly rampage entirely within the art complex at the high school, barricading himself inside from the fusillade of police officers' bullets that followed him there, Galveston County Judge Mark Henry said.

The art complex is made up of four rooms, each connected via interior hallways. Pagourtzis walked into the area Friday morning and began shooting students and teachers, said Henry, the county’s top administrator.
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Maccabee said:
How is an accident to blow someone away in the heat of the moment?

That's kinda irrelevant. While accidentally shooting someone is a mental burden, your personal mental burden doesn't help the kids being shot right in front of you. Deal with the threat now and deal with the mental burden later. There are counseling that deals with this sort of thing.
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The accident refers to the teacher aiming at a hostile shooter and killing a student by accident. I thought that was easy to understand.

Tell me again what you are going to do for the teacher who shoots a kid accidently resulting in the childs death.
 
haymarket said:
The accident refers to the teacher aiming at a hostile shooter and killing a student by accident. I thought that was easy to understand.

Tell me again what you are going to do for the teacher who shoots a kid accidently resulting in the childs death.
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For them? Counseling.
 
Rucker61 said:
What do we do for cops that shoot a civilian while aiming at crimnals?
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Teachers are not cops and do not do their job. Quite trying to pretend otherwise.
 
haymarket said:
How is killing an innocent "saving anyone"?
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WTF? Do the math. If one innocent were killed but the armed teacher killed the shooter that armed teacher may have saved 10-20. How about if a teacher at the so called Sandy Hook shooting would of had a firearm to fight back with instead of just throwing her arms up?
 
zsu2357 said:
WTF? Do the math. If one innocent were killed but the armed teacher killed the shooter that armed teacher may have saved 10-20. How about if a teacher at the so called Sandy Hook shooting would of had a firearm to fight back with instead of just throwing her arms up?
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But in the scenario I provided the teacher killed an innocent kid. There was no killing armed shooter and saving ten to twenty kids.

The answer to the problem of guns is not more problems with more guns. That is not an answer - it is insanity.
 
Originally Posted by minnie616
Officials in 10 of the state’s largest systems, which educate nearly 60 percent of all Florida school children, said they have no intention of giving teachers or other staff guns to carry into classrooms.
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And how many teachers agree with that? Not the officials and other big shots but teachers.You know the ones on the front lines doing the work. How many of those teachers already carry you think?
 
=haymarket;1068560636]If an armed teacher shoots a gun and kills an innocent - what will you do to ease their mental pain that they will live with forever?
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As I said earlier the teacher would take solace in knowing he/she saved many more. And that's assuming said perp. tried entering that room. You and the others against it seem to think all the armed teachers and staff are going to run willy/nellie shooting at everything that moves other than taking care of THEIR sphere of influence.
What will you do for the innocent whose life was taken wrongly?
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What would you do for 10-20 whose lives were taken wrongly when it could have been stopped but wasn't because of bureaucratic gun banners?
If an armed teacher is mistaken for the gunman by a police officer or even another teacher in haste and is killed - what will you do for the family of that dead teacher?
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Like I said they aren't running willy/nellie. And if they are holding their classroom there shouldn't be a problem with police or other teachers.
 
jet57 said:
With banana clips and 200 rounds? He would have shot a lot more dude.
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Maccabee said:
He was confined to one room pretty much from the get go.
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Actually, in the Santa Fe shooting it was 4 rooms that were interconnected via internal halls.

From:

The art complex is made up of four rooms, each interconnected by interior hallways. Armed with a shotgun and .38 handgun, Pagourtzis walked in there Friday morning and began shooting students and teachers, said Henry, the county’s top administrator.
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https://www.khou.com/article/news/l...f-santa-fe-high-school-shooting/285-555732971
 
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vegas giants said:
You just shot a detective
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Of course the school don't give the police a list of armed teachers or try to contact them first. Of course the police just charge the doors. You know it helps to think it through before posting.
 
haymarket said:
But in the scenario I provided the teacher killed an innocent kid. There was no killing armed shooter and saving ten to twenty kids.

The answer to the problem of guns is not more problems with more guns. That is not an answer - it is insanity.
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What is the solution when an active shooter shows up?
 
jet57 said:
With banana clips and 200 rounds? He would have shot a lot more dude.
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Unless it is a really good"baannnaana clip" its going to jam no doubt,because I don't care what the movies show they tend to jam up where they make that curve.
 
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