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So, Did the shooter in Santa Fe, Texas use a shotgun?

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But then you might have grandkids come over, right?

If not yet, someday? :)

Your safety measures seemed well-thought out and responsible.

Yes , I might have grandchildren over, or nieces or nephews or friend’s children.

I believe in the saying” better safe than sorry.”

Thank you for your kind words.
 
By passing laws to create the environment that people in that society want to live in. For example the various laws regarding smoking changed the role of smoking and cigarettes in America and had a very positive impact on our society.

Can you give a specific example?
 
Why does it have to? Why is that the standard for a proposed law?

Because you proposed it after the shooting, presuming as a way to prevent this avenue for future shooters to get firearms. Also even if you're talking in general, I've have yet to see your proposals actually work.
 
Because you proposed it after the shooting, presuming as a way to prevent this avenue for future shooters to get firearms. Also even if you're talking in general, I've have yet to see your proposals actually work.


It is intellectual fraud and the worst sort of gross dishonesty for anybody to pretend that any firearms related proposals must have prevented the latest gun massacre.
 
It is intellectual fraud and the worst sort of gross dishonesty for anybody to pretend that any firearms related proposals must have prevented the latest gun massacre.

Yet you proposed your solutions in response to the recent shooting. In general, what evidence do you have that your proposals will be effective?
 
Yet you proposed your solutions in response to the recent shooting. In general, what evidence do you have that your proposals will be effective?

I and others have been proposing legislation for years upon years upon years years and the occurrence of an event in the news does not change that reality.

As to effectiveness, we can see where nations who have some of the laws we have proposed also do NOT have the problems with firearms to the extent that we have here.
 
I and others have been proposing legislation for years upon years upon years years and the occurrence of an event in the news does not change that reality.

As to effectiveness, we can see where nations who have some of the laws we have proposed also do NOT have the problems with firearms to the extent that we have here.

For one that's not true. We actually have less mass shootings statistically than the EU, for another, correlation does not equal causation. In order to show that your proposals work, you need to provide a country that implemented such laws and had a dramatic decrease in violent crime (for leniency, I'll allow decrease in gun homicides) as a result of it.
 
For one that's not true. We actually have less mass shootings statistically than the EU, for another, correlation does not equal causation. In order to show that your proposals work, you need to provide a country that implemented such laws and had a dramatic decrease in violent crime (for leniency, I'll allow decrease in gun homicides) as a result of it.

Limiting the problems with firearms to simply mass shootings is intellectually dishonest.

It took us two centuries for us to get into this situation and many many many factors have contributed to it. It will take a variety of proposed solutions - some of which will work well and some of them which may be less effective - and lots of time before we turn this situation around.

To pretend that one proposal must fix the firearms problem is intellectually dishonest and I will NOT play that dishonest game.
 
Limiting the problems with firearms to simply mass shootings is intellectually dishonest.

It took us two centuries for us to get into this situation and many many many factors have contributed to it. It will take a variety of proposed solutions - some of which will work well and some of them which may be less effective - and lots of time before we turn this situation around.

To pretend that one proposal must fix the firearms problem is intellectually dishonest and I will NOT play that dishonest game.

I never said that one proposal would fix the problem. The problem I have is people who automatically blame guns as the reason we have mass shootings.
 
It is intellectual fraud and the worst sort of gross dishonesty for anybody to pretend that any firearms related proposals must have prevented the latest gun massacre.

No more dishonest than using the latest gun massacre's news report (or thread about it) to repeat a call to "do something" that, admittedly, would have had no impact on such an event. Actually, asking how proposed law X could (would?) have prevented event Y is a valid question.
 
I never said that one proposal would fix the problem. The problem I have is people who automatically blame guns as the reason we have mass shootings.

And the problem I have are the people who want to blame everything other than guns for gun violence.

If I can agree that things like violent popular culture and other factors contributes to the problem why can't gun people agree that the proliferation of guns and easy availability of them is also a factor in the problem?

Why does it have to be all or nothing?
 
No more dishonest than using the latest gun massacre's news report (or thread about it) to repeat a call to "do something" that, admittedly, would have had no impact on such an event. Actually, asking how proposed law X could (would?) have prevented event Y is a valid question.

Actually it is far far far more dishonest as events in the news are there and cannot be ignored by the informed. To pretend that every time there is an event of gun violence, people should dummy up and be silent is ridiculous on its face. That is not how people and our society operates. People want to talk about major events in the news when they are fresh in our minds.
 
And the problem I have are the people who want to blame everything other than guns for gun violence.

If I can agree that things like violent popular culture and other factors contributes to the problem why can't gun people agree that the proliferation of guns and easy availability of them is also a factor in the problem?

Why does it have to be all or nothing?

It doesn't have to be "all or nothing."

I will agree with you that the the availability of guns, combined with the above (or other) factors, is a potential recipe for disaster.

The problem with most gun control laws, however, is that they seek to punish innocent people while not providing much of a reduction in availability of guns to the wackos. Because we don't yet have the absolute ability to read the mind and intentions of another, we really don't have a good way of keeping guns out of the hands of wackos, while still allowing innocent people to own and bear arms.

I don't know if your main interest is in reducing school shootings, or if it's in reducing gun crime in general, but the two will require very different methodologies. The first will probably require a heavy focus on safety measures in the schools, while the latter might require heavy prosecution of gang-involved shootings.

But, whatever we do, what we don't want to do is forget about the single mother who lives in fear for herself and her children. What we don't want to do is take away her ability to protect herself and her young'uns, leaving her at the mercy of someone who intends to do her and the little ones harm.
 
Actually it is far far far more dishonest as events in the news are there and cannot be ignored by the informed. To pretend that every time there is an event of gun violence, people should dummy up and be silent is ridiculous on its face. That is not how people and our society operates. People want to talk about major events in the news when they are fresh in our minds.

Talking about such events is fine but so is asking if passing additional gun restriction law X would have had any effect on that event. Murder is illegal as is a 17 year old student having any gun on school property. We do not lack laws that address using guns to commit crimes - what we lack is enforcement of those laws.

This shooter used no special or exotic guns (a shotgun and a revolver were the only guns involved) and neither had "high capacity" magazines or used special "cop killer" ammo. Once again, we see how easy it was for a minor to bring guns into a "gun free zone" and how long it took for LEOs to stop (kill or arrest) an "active shooter".

This school mass shooting example proves that it does not take any special gun(s) to rack up a significant body count inside a "gun free zone" packed with plenty of targets of opportunity given the typical 4 to 8 minutes until LEOs, who may (or may not) decide to shoot back, arrive.
 
Talking about such events is fine but so is asking if passing additional gun restriction law X would have had any effect on that event. Murder is illegal as is a 17 year old student having any gun on school property. We do not lack laws that address using guns to commit crimes - what we lack is enforcement of those laws.

This shooter used no special or exotic guns (a shotgun and a revolver were the only guns involved) and neither had "high capacity" magazines or used special "cop killer" ammo. Once again, we see how easy it was for a minor to bring guns into a "gun free zone" and how long it took for LEOs to stop (kill or arrest) an "active shooter".

This school mass shooting example proves that it does not take any special gun(s) to rack up a significant body count inside a "gun free zone" packed with plenty of targets of opportunity given the typical 4 to 8 minutes until LEOs, who may (or may not) decide to shoot back, arrive.

So what is your solution?
 
It doesn't have to be "all or nothing."

I will agree with you that the the availability of guns, combined with the above (or other) factors, is a potential recipe for disaster.

The problem with most gun control laws, however, is that they seek to punish innocent people while not providing much of a reduction in availability of guns to the wackos. Because we don't yet have the absolute ability to read the mind and intentions of another, we really don't have a good way of keeping guns out of the hands of wackos, while still allowing innocent people to own and bear arms.

I don't know if your main interest is in reducing school shootings, or if it's in reducing gun crime in general, but the two will require very different methodologies. The first will probably require a heavy focus on safety measures in the schools, while the latter might require heavy prosecution of gang-involved shootings.

But, whatever we do, what we don't want to do is forget about the single mother who lives in fear for herself and her children. What we don't want to do is take away her ability to protect herself and her young'uns, leaving her at the mercy of someone who intends to do her and the little ones harm.

How are "innocent people" punished by proposed gun laws?
 
No more dishonest than using the latest gun massacre's news report (or thread about it) to repeat a call to "do something" that, admittedly, would have had no impact on such an event. Actually, asking how proposed law X could (would?) have prevented event Y is a valid question.

It took us over two centuries and all manner of factors to get us into this situation with gun violence and it will take a long time and many different solutions to get us out. To pretend that any one proposal is suppose to magically prevent the previous event is ridiculous on its face and its a grossly offensive and dishonest tactic used by the NRA and its supporters.
 
So what is your solution?

I assume that you wish to prevent (or reduce) school mass shootings - a very reasonable goal, indeed. My solution is to establish very high security for all school buildings. Yep, that level of security is expensive but is also very effective since we rarely experience court house or state house mass shootings - those "gun free zones" are actually taken seriously and enforced.
 
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