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Illinois counties declare 'sanctuary' status for gun owners

trouble13

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Several rural Illinois counties have taken a stand for gun rights by co-opting a word that conservatives associate with a liberal policy to skirt the law: sanctuary.

At least five counties recently passed resolutions declaring themselves sanctuary counties for gun owners — a reference to so-called sanctuary cities such as Chicago that don't cooperate with aspects of federal immigration enforcement.

The resolutions are meant to put the Democratic-controlled Legislature on notice that if it passes a host of gun bills, including new age restrictions for certain weapons, a bump stock ban and size limit for gun magazines, the counties might bar their employees from enforcing the new laws.

I guess what's good for the goose is good for the gander. It will be interesting to hear what arguments anti-gunners will make that does not harm their sanctuary city arguments for protecting illegals.

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I guess what's good for the goose is good for the gander. It will be interesting to hear what arguments anti-gunners will make that does not harm their sanctuary city arguments for protecting illegals.

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On the whole I'm more against gun regulations and sanctuary cities. But I'm not sure if this will legally work. If I'm remembering correctly sanctuary cities claim their protection due to federalism issues against the federal government commandeering state and local governments for federal programs. But that same issue wouldn't seem to work in a county-state relationship.

But I haven't really done any research on this. Going off memory.
 
I’m pretty consistent in this. Local governments should not be obligated to use their resources to enforce non-local laws. I don’t care if it is guns, immigration, drugs, or whatever. If state governments want to enforce it then state law enforcement can enforce it. If the feds want to enforce it, then federal law enforcement can enforce it.

And fortunately, so far, the courts agree with me.
 
On the whole I'm more against gun regulations and sanctuary cities. But I'm not sure if this will legally work. If I'm remembering correctly sanctuary cities claim their protection due to federalism issues against the federal government commandeering state and local governments for federal programs. But that same issue wouldn't seem to work in a county-state relationship.

But I haven't really done any research on this. Going off memory.
Im not sure how it will work out I just think it's interesting that conservatives are now taking a page from the lefts playboy and refusing to enforce laws they don't like. I'm not sure they are legally obligated to prosecute anyone they don't want to.

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On the whole I'm more against gun regulations and sanctuary cities. But I'm not sure if this will legally work. If I'm remembering correctly sanctuary cities claim their protection due to federalism issues against the federal government commandeering state and local governments for federal programs. But that same issue wouldn't seem to work in a county-state relationship.

But I haven't really done any research on this. Going off memory.

My memory ain't the best, but yes the Sates have fought these battles with the Federal Govt and lost, and for the reasons you mention.

Rad this article some time back
https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/11/sanctuary-cities-states-rights-honot-tenth-amendment/
But what was interesting about the decision was Orrick’s rationale. He claimed that the executive order violated the Tenth Amendment, on the grounds that the president was attempting to usurp powers that belong to local authorities. While Congress has a right to impose restrictions on the use of funds it provides the states, the president cannot do so unilaterally. If the laws granting federal money to San Francisco and other sanctuary cities specifically required them to follow federal regulations regarding illegal immigration, revoking the funding would have been defensible. But lacking that legislative imprimatur, Trump’s action was clearly illegal.

That a liberal court would suddenly embrace a constitutional provision that has, at least in recent memory, been solely the preserve of conservatives is ironic. As a general rule, in recent years only those determined to resist a big-government philosophy of recognizing no restraint on the power of the federal government to dictate policy on just about anything have even mentioned the Tenth Amendment.

Now we have one that is using a differing take on the Supremacy Clause. 2 different cases that went to SCOTUS. Though I have the opinion the DOJ will lose.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ation-in-sanctuary-cities-cases-idUSKCN1GJ362

Some of the best U.S. Supreme Court precedent for each side comes from cases with similarly strong political shading. States’ rights proponents are relying on 1997’s Printz v. United States, which the court held, in an opinion by Justice Antonin Scalia, that the federal government could not coerce county law enforcement officials from Arizona and Montana to conduct background checks on handgun purchasers while the government assembled a nationwide database. That sort of conscription, Justice Scalia wrote, would breach the Constitution’s scheme of balancing state and federal power by enshrining dual sovereignty.

The Justice Department suit, meanwhile, cites 2012’s Arizona v. United States, which struck down stringent Arizona immigration laws as preempted under the Supremacy Clause. The Supreme Court held, in an opinion by Justice Anthony Kennedy, that Arizona intruded on federal authority over immigration law when it allowed state law enforcement officers to make warrantless arrests of aliens suspected of being in the country illegally. If the Arizona statute were allowed, Justice Kennedy wrote, every state could give itself independent authority to police immigration – and that’s not what Congress intended nor what the Constitution permits.
 
I’m pretty consistent in this. Local governments should not be obligated to use their resources to enforce non-local laws. I don’t care if it is guns, immigration, drugs, or whatever. If state governments want to enforce it then state law enforcement can enforce it. If the feds want to enforce it, then federal law enforcement can enforce it.

And fortunately, so far, the courts agree with me.

Have the courts agreed on a local-state issue as opposed to local-federal or state-federal?

Honestly asking, the former would seem to be a different issue than the latter, at least from what I remember from Con-law. But I haven't looked into it, and there could be another reason states can't force localities to enforce state programs.
 
I’m pretty consistent in this. Local governments should not be obligated to use their resources to enforce non-local laws. I don’t care if it is guns, immigration, drugs, or whatever. If state governments want to enforce it then state law enforcement can enforce it. If the feds want to enforce it, then federal law enforcement can enforce it.

And fortunately, so far, the courts agree with me.
So we have a county, that only selectively enforces State Laws.
Well with that, what happens when a local is murdered, in that county, do they not investigate and prosecute?
 
Have the courts agreed on a local-state issue as opposed to local-federal or state-federal?

Honestly asking, the former would seem to be a different issue than the latter, at least from what I remember from Con-law. But I haven't looked into it, and there could be another reason states can't force localities to enforce state programs.

Fair point. I’m not sure. I personally think local government rights is as important as state’s rights, but I realize the law may say otherwise.
 
On the whole I'm more against gun regulations and sanctuary cities. But I'm not sure if this will legally work. If I'm remembering correctly sanctuary cities claim their protection due to federalism issues against the federal government commandeering state and local governments for federal programs. But that same issue wouldn't seem to work in a county-state relationship.

But I haven't really done any research on this. Going off memory.

The sheriff and county government took an oath to uphold The Constitution of The United States. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land and that gives them legal authority to ignore state law.
 
The sheriff and county government took an oath to uphold The Constitution of The United States. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land and that gives them legal authority to ignore state law.

Which would only hold up if the courts find whatever legislation is at issue here unconstitutional.
 
So we have a county, that only selectively enforces State Laws.
Well with that, what happens when a local is murdered, in that county, do they not investigate and prosecute?

Federal law over rules state law and Federal law is what these counties are enforcing.

If the Feds put out a warrant on a guy living in Los Angeles for tax evasion, is the Los Angeles Police Department going to ignore the warrant if they get the guy on a traffic stop? Or, are they going to arrest him and hold him for the Feds?
 
Which would only hold up if the courts find whatever legislation is at issue here unconstitutional.

It wouldn't matter, because Federal law over rules state law.
 
It wouldn't matter, because Federal law over rules state law.

If the legislation isn’t unconstitutional then it matters. There wouldn’t be any federal law trumping the state legislation.
 
So we have a county, that only selectively enforces State Laws.
Well with that, what happens when a local is murdered, in that county, do they not investigate and prosecute?

Murder is almost always a violation of state and local laws as well. But if local governments are letting certain crimes slide that the voters want enforced then they will be held accountable at the polls.
 
If the legislation isn’t unconstitutional then it matters. There wouldn’t be any federal law trumping the state legislation.

That isn't what Article 4 says:

This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articlevi
 
Federal law over rules state law and Federal law is what these counties are enforcing.

If the Feds put out a warrant on a guy living in Los Angeles for tax evasion, is the Los Angeles Police Department going to ignore the warrant if they get the guy on a traffic stop? Or, are they going to arrest him and hold him for the Feds?

All murders fall under the Feds to prosecute?
 
That isn't what Article 4 says:

I don’t see anything there that would seem to have anything to do with whether local officials can refuse to enforce state laws that don’t violate the Constitution or any other federal law.
 
Murder is almost always a violation of state and local laws as well. But if local governments are letting certain crimes slide that the voters want enforced then they will be held accountable at the polls.
That is where I see the rub here. Both the police and prosecutors are given discretion. I'm not sure what the higher tiers of gov can do if the counties refuse to enforce laws they don't like. They would need to send in state police and state prosecutors to do the job. That is essentially what some of the state's are telling the feds.

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I don’t see anything there that would seem to have anything to do with whether local officials can refuse to enforce state laws that don’t violate the Constitution or any other federal law.

" laws of the state not withstanding" means that the county government can legally uphold Federal law over state law. There's nothing there about requiring the state law to be ruled unconstitutional, first.
 
" laws of the state not withstanding" means that the county government can legally uphold Federal law over state law. There's nothing there about requiring the state law to be ruled unconstitutional, first.

There is no conflicting federal law in this case if the gun legislation isn’t unconstitutional.
 
That is where I see the rub here. Both the police and prosecutors are given discretion. I'm not sure what the higher tiers of gov can do if the counties refuse to enforce laws they don't like. They would need to send in state police and state prosecutors to do the job. That is essentially what some of the state's are telling the feds.

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And that is the way I personally think it should be.
 
And that is the way I personally think it should be.
I agree. I have no problem with local communities deciding what kind of governance they want to live under.

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I’m pretty consistent in this. Local governments should not be obligated to use their resources to enforce non-local laws. I don’t care if it is guns, immigration, drugs, or whatever. If state governments want to enforce it then state law enforcement can enforce it. If the feds want to enforce it, then federal law enforcement can enforce it.

And fortunately, so far, the courts agree with me.

So the local sheriff or city police department isn't obligated to prosecute state crimes against, say, murder, and the appropriate authority is the State Bureau or something? That would be OK but it would basically negate the need for local law enforcement to exist, as few purely local laws are more than zoning and that kind of thing. There aren't local laws against rape, robbery, assault, etc...
 
Federal law over rules state law and Federal law is what these counties are enforcing.

If the Feds put out a warrant on a guy living in Los Angeles for tax evasion, is the Los Angeles Police Department going to ignore the warrant if they get the guy on a traffic stop? Or, are they going to arrest him and hold him for the Feds?

Seems to me the courts have pretty clearly argued the IRS cannot obligate locals to do their job of arresting and holding tax cheats.

The IRS might say, "Hey guys, here's a pot of money. If you accept it, you'll need to agree to serve tax warrants for us? We good?" and if the locals say, "Yes, thanks IRS, will do!" then IRS can require it, or yank the money conditioned on that agreement to help IRS nab tax cheats.
 
Seems to me the courts have pretty clearly argued the IRS cannot obligate locals to do their job of arresting and holding tax cheats.

The IRS might say, "Hey guys, here's a pot of money. If you accept it, you'll need to agree to serve tax warrants for us? We good?" and if the locals say, "Yes, thanks IRS, will do!" then IRS can require it, or yank the money conditioned on that agreement to help IRS nab tax cheats.

So, local cops wouldn't enforce ANY federal warrant?
 
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