• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Chicago Sees Spike In Gun Violence

Geoist said:
Poverty absolutely contributes to crime, but that does not discount the impact gun laws have on society. It is a simple reality that the more guns there are the more likely there will be gun crimes.
Click to expand...

And the more guns there are in the right hands the more violent crime, not just gun crime but all violent crime in general, will be stopped.
 
DebateChallenge said:
And if poverty is a problem. If most people are committing crime because they're poor, than it would make sense they wouldn't be using guns since they wouldn't be able to afford guns.
Click to expand...
More is the pity...in Chicago it is known that there are gun 'brokers'...people that buy guns legally and rent them out. Police also know that a large number of guns used in Chicago are bought by family members and friends with clean records and then provided to criminals. They know that...yet they refuse to act on it for the same reasons they dont target the violent crime in the first place. Because the perpetrators are by and large, minority, and prosecuting them is not politically expedient. So blood flows...people die...and literally no one gives a ****. Black lives do not matter.
 
DebateChallenge said:
Reducing gun crime is not a matter of having more gun regulations, its a matter of enforcing the gun regulations we've got.
Click to expand...

Are you saying our law enforcement officers are not doing their jobs?
 
Geoist said:
I was speaking speculatively when I said ‘no’ regulation. You can think there is no state with ‘few’ regulations, but you cannot deny the reality there are states with fewer regulations and those states typically have higher gun crime rates.
Click to expand...

That wouldn't make sense since most criminals get their guns illegally.
 
DebateChallenge said:
And the more guns there are in the right hands the more violent crime, not just gun crime but all violent crime in general, will be stopped.
Click to expand...

People are not going to just take your word for it. Provide statistics.
 
Geoist said:
NYC actually has stricter gun laws than Chicago

Are Chicago's gun laws that strict? An explainer - Chicago Tribune
Click to expand...
Several factors changed things in New York. 1-For a significant period of time, the city took a tough stance on crime, using the stop and frisk procedures and other measures to aggressively target the population groups most likely to commit the crimes. 2-many of those run down neighborhoods have undergone gentrification and the population demographics have changed. People didnt stop being criminals...they just have taken their show on the road.
 
Geoist said:
Gun violence rates can be lowered through lower poverty rates and those states have pretty low poverty rates.
Click to expand...

So than its poverty which causes violent crime, not gun friendliness.



Geoist said:
So? Are you saying it is good to have high suicide rates?

*stupid autocorrect
Click to expand...

Suicide is not a violent crime against another person. You don't plan on committing suicide do you? If you don't than you're in no danger of suicide and so if you're in a place with a high suicide rate it shouldn't pose a danger to you.
 
VanceMack said:
More is the pity...in Chicago it is known that there are gun 'brokers'...people that buy guns legally and rent them out. Police also know that a large number of guns used in Chicago are bought by family members and friends with clean records and then provided to criminals. They know that...yet they refuse to act on it for the same reasons they dont target the violent crime in the first place. Because the perpetrators are by and large, minority, and prosecuting them is not politically expedient. So blood flows...people die...and literally no one gives a ****. Black lives do not matter.
Click to expand...
Considering the fact that a legally bought gun can be traced by its serial number back to the FFL dealer who sold it and from there traced to the person who at the time legally bought it, buying guns and renting them out illegally or buying guns as straw purchases would be very foolish. If what you say is true, the problem is the laws aren't being properly enforced.
 
DebateChallenge said:
That wouldn't make sense since most criminals get their guns illegally.
Click to expand...

Most gun crimes are committed with illegally obtained guns, partly because people who want to commit a crime want no paper trail. but they are far more likely legally obtain a gun in the states with fewer regulations. In other words, it is easier for a criminal to obtain a gun legally in those states. That probably at least in part explains the higher rate of gun crimes in those states. Some of those states even allow those with a violent criminal record to legally buy guns.
 
Geoist said:
People are not going to just take your word for it. Provide statistics.
Click to expand...

The fact that police carry guns goes to show that guns in the right hands stop crime.
 
DebateChallenge said:
The fact that police carry guns goes to show that guns in the right hands stop crime.
Click to expand...

Police officers receive extensive training on how to use a gun properly. There is no such requirement for citizens in most states. Some countries do not have officers carry guns, yet they have a lower crime rate.
 
Geoist said:
What law isn’t being enforced?
Click to expand...

Thousands of felony gun cases are being dismissed in Cook County criminal courts | Chicago Reporter
From January 2006 through August 2013, thousands of cases involving a weapons violation were thrown out in Cook County’s criminal courts, The Chicago Reporter found. More than 13,000 cases that included a gun violation have been dismissed during that period, shows the Reporter’s analysis of records maintained by the Clerk of the Circuit Court of Cook County. In fact, more felony cases involving a gun--from illegal possession to unlawful sale to a felon--have been thrown out than cases with any other type of charge.


In 2010, 72,000 applicants were denied permission to purchase a firearm via the NICS and state systems. 34,000 of these were denied for previous felony convictions. Only 10 (10!) were convicted. We still have tens of thousands of people who committed a felony by lying on the Form 4473 and have a violent past free to find guns through illegal means. Given that a violent felon is looking for a gun, how many violent crimes could be prevented by arresting and incarcerating these felons? https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/bjs/grants/239272.pdf

https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndga/p...uying-firearm-used-kill-omaha-nebraska-police
 
DebateChallenge said:
Considering the fact that a legally bought gun can be traced by its serial number back to the FFL dealer who sold it and from there traced to the person who at the time legally bought it, buying guns and renting them out illegally or buying guns as straw purchases would be very foolish. If what you say is true, the problem is the laws aren't being properly enforced.
Click to expand...
That is INDEED the problem. They arent.
 
60% of guns recovered from Chicago crime scenes are from outside Chicago. pointing to a limiting of the effectiveness of local gun laws when living next door to lax neighbours. One of the reasons Britain and Australia have successfully regulated guns is that they are islands.
 
DebateChallenge said:
So than its poverty which causes violent crime, not gun friendliness.
Click to expand...

Do you really think there can only be one contributing factors to gun violence rates? There are many. Poverty rates are certainly one of them.





Suicide is not a violent crime against another person.
Click to expand...

No, they are not crimes against another person. However, you also don't want to be a state with high suicide rates.
 
DebateChallenge said:
Well according to your link Detroit is number one in violent crime and I do believe Detroit has strict gun laws, possibly as strict as Chicago or NYC. Also Baltimore is on the list and Baltimore has among the strictest gun regulations in the country.
Click to expand...

You said Chicago is 'infested' with violent crime (that includes crime that don't involve guns). The statistics proved that your claim is an exaggeration. Why are you talking about Chicago but not more violent cities like St. Louis and Memphis?
 
Geoist said:
You said Chicago is 'infested' with violent crime (that includes crime that don't involve guns). The statistics proved that your claim is an exaggeration. Why are you talking about Chicago but not more violent cities like St. Louis and Memphis?
Click to expand...

How are they similar to Chicago?
 
Rucker61 said:
Thousands of felony gun cases are being dismissed in Cook County criminal courts | Chicago Reporter
From January 2006 through August 2013, thousands of cases involving a weapons violation were thrown out in Cook County’s criminal courts, The Chicago Reporter found. More than 13,000 cases that included a gun violation have been dismissed during that period, shows the Reporter’s analysis of records maintained by the Clerk of the Circuit Court of Cook County. In fact, more felony cases involving a gun--from illegal possession to unlawful sale to a felon--have been thrown out than cases with any other type of charge.
Click to expand...

Seems like these are cases where the cops are not following protocol.

Fabio Valentini, the chief of the state’s attorney’s office’s criminal prosecutions bureau, said an “overwhelming” number of the dismissed cases were based on a judge’s decision to suppress evidence because a gun was intercepted in a way that violates the Fourth Amendment.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom