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To the Gun Control Crowd: Who do you think we should rely on for our defense?

Kal'Stang

Kal'Stang

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When I ask that question I'm talking about individuals when I say "we". Individuals that are being attacked. It takes I believe roughly 7 to 10 minutes for police to respond to an emergency. During that time who should we rely on for our defense? This includes situations such as school shootings. One on one instances such as a mugging or home invasion, store robberies etc etc.
 
Kal'Stang said:
When I ask that question I'm talking about individuals when I say "we". Individuals that are being attacked. It takes I believe roughly 7 to 10 minutes for police to respond to an emergency. During that time who should we rely on for our defense? This includes situations such as school shootings. One on one instances such as a mugging or home invasion, store robberies etc etc.
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Based on your actual question, I'm thinking you should use your mod powers to change your thread title to, "To the Gun Banning Crowd: Who do you think we should rely on for our defense?"
 
Cardinal said:
Based on your actual question, I'm thinking you should use your mod powers to change your thread title to, "To the Gun Banning Crowd: Who do you think we should rely on for our defense?"
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Nope.
 
Cardinal said:
Alright, well perhaps another gun control advocate will fall for your clumsy trap thread.
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It's an honest question. Not surprising that you would consider it a trap though. Besides, even if I did change the thread title to suit your whims your suggestion would still apply to you as you have gone on record of wanting the 2nd Amendment repealed.

Cardinal said:
Alright, well, since the discussion isn't about slavery, I don't need to address your stupid post. I've recently adopted the position that the 2A needs to be repealed. This is because gun rights activists made it brutally clear that they will not cede one inch. Before I realized that I had never even considered being against the 2A. Now I am. Opposition to the 2A has, in fact, entered the mainstream dialogue. If the 2A is ultimately repealed down the line, you will have your own intransigence to blame.
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So, how about you just answer the question?
 
Kal'Stang said:
It's an honest question. Not surprising that you would consider it a trap though. Besides, even if I did change the thread title to suit your whims your suggestion would still apply to you as you have gone on record of wanting the 2nd Amendment repealed.



So, how about you just answer the question?
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Words mean the things that they mean, rather than whatever the voices in your head tell you they mean. I have little doubt there will be somebody thick enough to fall for this bait thread and keep you entertained for a bit.
 
Cardinal said:
Words mean the things that they mean, rather than whatever the voices in your head tell you they mean. I have little doubt there will be somebody thick enough to fall for this bait thread and keep you entertained for a bit.
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I'll take your posts as an admission that you cannot answer the question since you have continually failed to do so at any point in time. Thank you for your contribution. Cya! :2wave:
 
Kal'Stang said:
When I ask that question I'm talking about individuals when I say "we". Individuals that are being attacked. It takes I believe roughly 7 to 10 minutes for police to respond to an emergency. During that time who should we rely on for our defense? This includes situations such as school shootings. One on one instances such as a mugging or home invasion, store robberies etc etc.
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A gun.
 
Kal'Stang said:
When I ask that question I'm talking about individuals when I say "we". Individuals that are being attacked. It takes I believe roughly 7 to 10 minutes for police to respond to an emergency. During that time who should we rely on for our defense? This includes situations such as school shootings. One on one instances such as a mugging or home invasion, store robberies etc etc.
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Gun control does not equal banning all guns by default. Even if I don’t agree with the ban, if I don’t have an ar-15 I can still defend my home with my shotgun or pistol. So you’re post, as it is stands right now, is really irrelevant since people can still have gun controls and have legal firearms.
 
Praxas said:
Gun control does not equal banning all guns by default. Even if I don’t agree with the ban, if I don’t have an ar-15 I can still defend my home with my shotgun or pistol. So you’re post, as it is stands right now, is really irrelevant since people can still have gun controls and have legal firearms.
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Is a shotgun or pistol appropriate in all circumstances?
 
Kal'Stang said:
Is a shotgun or pistol appropriate in all circumstances?
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No, it wouldn’t be effective against space aliens that have metal skin.
 
Kal'Stang said:
My question was serious. I'd appreciate a serious answer.
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Of course those two items won’t work in all situations but for home use if I go through 6 shotgun shells (pre-loaded) and 3 x 15 round clips of my m&p .40 (I have 3 clips pre-loaded) chances are a ar-15 won’t solve it either. I also have other weapons and firearms but those two are within reach of my bed. And if I’m out on the streets I’m not going to have an ar-15 strapped on my back. Again, I feel I need a to reiterate I’m against all gun bans.
 
Praxas said:
Of course those two items won’t work in all situations but for home use if I go through 6 shotgun shells (pre-loaded) and 3 x 15 round clips of my m&p .40 (I have 3 clips pre-loaded) chances are a ar-15 won’t solve it either. I also have other weapons and firearms but those two are within reach of my bed. And if I’m out on the streets I’m not going to have an ar-15 strapped on my back. Again, I feel I need a to reiterate I’m against all gun bans.
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Ok, so you admit that those two weapons of your choice is not the right choice in all situations. Would other types of guns be better in those situations that your guns couldn't handle?
 
Kal'Stang said:
Ok, so you admit that those two weapons of your choice is not the right choice in all situations. Would other types of guns be better in those situations that your guns couldn't handle?
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Not one that I can think of at home or if I were outside that wasn’t outlandish like having an entire 100 man biker gang showing up at my house or something. What probable situation can you think of that ONLY an ar-15 is needed?
 
Praxas said:
Not one that I can think of at home or if I were outside that wasn’t outlandish like having an entire 100 man biker gang showing up at my house or something. What probable situation can you think of that ONLY an ar-15 is needed?
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I'm not talking about AR-15s specifically. I'm talking about any gun that the gun control crowd has determined to be an "assault weapon". Which includes farm more than just the AR-15. Nor am I talking about or suggesting that only specific guns as being better. There is a wide swath of guns however that are better in certain situations than other situations. In fact every type of gun has its pro's and its con's. And each situation would determine which gun to use based on those pro's and con's. Now, I'm no gun aficionado so I can't tell you all of the differences. But I do recognize the fact that just like any other tool you use different tools depending on the circumstances. Do you agree with that?
 
Praxas said:
Gun control does not equal banning all guns by default. Even if I don’t agree with the ban, if I don’t have an ar-15 I can still defend my home with my shotgun or pistol. So you’re post, as it is stands right now, is really irrelevant since people can still have gun controls and have legal firearms.
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In theory they can, as you said, now defend their home but not all crime occurs in the home. When laws exist making it illegal (in some states a felony) to simply carry that lawfully owned pistol with you when you leave your home then (reasonable?) gun control has not only become a hindrance to your personal safety but potentially makes you a criminal (felon?) for simply keeping your means of armed self defense available to yourself.

You have conveniently left out mass shootings, muggings/robberies and other violent crime outside of one's home. These crimes were obviously included in the OP question yet intentionally absent from your reply. We have plenty of, if not too many, gun control laws now - it is illegal for a prohibited person to possess any gun and in some states even for a law abiding gun owner to carry their legally owned pistol with them without having rented special permission from the state ($240 in Texas) to do so in advance.

The 2A is clearly a compound right of the people to keep (buy/own) and bear (carry) arms yet gun control laws have essentially stripped the latter from being an individual constitutional right and have converted it into a mere state issued privilege. A right is not something that requires taking a class, passing a test and paying a user fee - that is how we assign state issued privileges like driving a car on public roadways not how we keep our individual (BoR?) freedoms intact.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
In theory they can, as you said, now defend their home but not all crime occurs in the home. When laws exist making it illegal (in some states a felony) to simply carry that lawfully owned pistol with you when you leave your home then "gun control" has become a hindrance to your safety but potentially makes you a criminal (felon?) for simply keeping the means of armed self defense available to yourself.
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that is not the case even with gun bans as there are grandfathered clauses for them.

You have conveniently left out mass shootings, muggings/robberies and other violent crime outside of one's home. These crimes were obviously included in the OP question yet intentionally absent from your reply. We have plenty of, if not too many, gun control laws now - it is illegal for a prohibited person to possess any gun and in some states even for a law abiding gun owner to carry their legally owned pistol with them without having rented special permission from the state ($240 in Texas) to do so in advance.
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So I think we are moving goal posts here. The topic that Kal had was gun control and he used the Assault weapon ban (BTW, I like most like you hate that term) as an example. That is what we are discussing. I doubt anyone walks along near a school with their assault weapon on their back waiting for a school shooting or mugging.

The 2A is clearly a compound right of the people to keep (buy/own) and bear (carry) arms yet gun control laws have essentially stripped the latter from being an individual constitutional right and have converted it into a mere state issued privilege. A right is not something that requires taking a class, passing a test and paying a user fee - that is how we assign state issued privileges like driving a car on public roadways not how we keep our individual (BoR?) freedoms intact.
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Yet again, we are discussing gun control and the Assault Weapons ban, not banning ALL firearms. And I am in agreement with you, I don't think ANY guns should be banned.
 
Cardinal said:
Based on your actual question, I'm thinking you should use your mod powers to change your thread title to, "To the Gun Banning Crowd: Who do you think we should rely on for our defense?"
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They're pretty much the same.
 
Kal'Stang said:
I'm not talking about AR-15s specifically. I'm talking about any gun that the gun control crowd has determined to be an "assault weapon". Which includes farm more than just the AR-15.
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Ok, that's fine, but that still is a type of an assault weapon (FYI like I said in the above post, I hate the term assault weapon because it's not accurate at all) that the normal person is not going to strap on their back and walk downtown with.

Nor am I talking about or suggesting that only specific guns as being better. There is a wide swath of guns however that are better in certain situations than other situations. In fact every type of gun has its pro's and its con's. And each situation would determine which gun to use based on those pro's and con's. Now, I'm no gun aficionado so I can't tell you all of the differences. But I do recognize the fact that just like any other tool you use different tools depending on the circumstances. Do you agree with that?
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I'll agree that there is always the perfect tool for the job, but that doesn't mean they can't be grouped. For instance you use tools as an example. I can buy a really nice wrench set for $400 or I can buy a walmart special kit for $15. Both will do the job but one is meant more for commercial use versus residential but both are wrenches and not used on a screw for example. So while there is a perfect gun maybe for every situation, you still have not let us know a probable situation in which an assault weapon would be needed instead of any other firearm that is legal?
 
Praxas said:
Of course those two items won’t work in all situations but for home use if I go through 6 shotgun shells (pre-loaded) and 3 x 15 round clips of my m&p .40 (I have 3 clips pre-loaded) chances are a ar-15 won’t solve it either. I also have other weapons and firearms but those two are within reach of my bed. And if I’m out on the streets I’m not going to have an ar-15 strapped on my back. Again, I feel I need a to reiterate I’m against all gun bans.
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Clips?
 
Praxas said:
No, it wouldn’t be effective against space aliens that have metal skin.
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They (your pistol or shotgun) would not likely be effective for removing a coyote from a pasture or putting some venison on the table. The fact that a semi-auto rifle (or pistol) can be fired more rapidly or until its magazine is emptied does not mean that it must be or is even more likely to be.
 
WCH said:
Clips?
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I use the term clips, but for you grammar Nazis out there, Magazines. Does that make you feel better?
 
Praxas said:
Gun control does not equal banning all guns by default. Even if I don’t agree with the ban, if I don’t have an ar-15 I can still defend my home with my shotgun or pistol. So you’re post, as it is stands right now, is really irrelevant since people can still have gun controls and have legal firearms.
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That's the point. You should be able to defend your home with anything you want or can afford. Shotgun, AR15 style, hand gun, rocks, or wait for the police. I won't stop you. I'm going to defend my right to do the same.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
They (your pistol or shotgun) would not likely be effective for removing a coyote from a pasture or putting some venison on the table. The fact that a semi-auto rifle (or pistol) can be fired more rapidly or until its magazine is emptied does not mean that it must be or is even more likely to be.
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Kal first brought up needing a assault weapon for home defense. I mentioned that a shotgun and pistol are just as good. You do know there are legal rifles that will do what you say right? We are talking assault weapons ban. Are you saying you can't hunt unless you have a weapon that is on the assault weapon ban list?
 
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