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Armed School Officer stopped Maryland shooting

vegas giants said:
Again you are wrong. There are several levels of certification with the first being the BASIC POST Certificate
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So? And?

The simple fact is that an officer can be an officer BEFORE those certifications, as evidenced by the thousands who are officers right out of academy.

Splitting hairs doesn't cut it. A rookie cop can strap on a sidearm and go out on a beat without a POST certification.

Pretending that doesn't happen makes you look ill-informed.
 
vegas giants said:
If you have not been trained in use of force, tactical decision making, assessing threats and determining the trajectory of your fire then you have a lousy department. Civilians don't normally get any of that.
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There you go again -- insulting other departments.

The more you keep posting -- the more I have to wonder if you really know anything at all about law enforcement.
 
JLee1977 said:
I got all of that before I pursued a career in law enforcement. I got more of it at the police academy. There are civilians that take it upon themselves to seek out this level of training.

Lucas Botkin is in his early 20's, 100% civilian, and trains police officers in Tennessee. There are many more like him!
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Can it be done? Sure. It is far far from typical
 
HowardBThiname said:
There you go again -- insulting other departments.

The more you keep posting -- the more I have to wonder if you really know anything at all about law enforcement.
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Show me a department that does not train in these things
 
HowardBThiname said:
So? And?

The simple fact is that an officer can be an officer BEFORE those certifications, as evidenced by the thousands who are officers right out of academy.

Splitting hairs doesn't cut it. A rookie cop can strap on a sidearm and go out on a beat without a POST certification.

Pretending that doesn't happen makes you look ill-informed.
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I seem to know more about this than you.
 
jet57 said:
I have four grand kids in school. So would it be better that children and grandparents didn't have to worry about someone with a gun at school?
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I want to see controlled access to firearms for trained staff, not someone walking around with a sidearm. If there is an attack, we need a response that goes beyond "Hide here on this nice blood proof mat so that the clean up will be easier." If there is an attack, there should be a number of different people spread out across the school who can access a firearm in the case of an emergency and put their training to work to protect the children in their care.
 
faithful_servant said:
I want to see controlled access to firearms for trained staff, not someone walking around with a sidearm. If there is an attack, we need a response that goes beyond "Hide here on this nice blood proof mat so that the clean up will be easier." If there is an attack, there should be a number of different people spread out across the school who can access a firearm in the case of an emergency and put their training to work to protect the children in their care.
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So, you don't think that it's better for us and our kids that we don't have to worry about nuts with guns getting on school grounds.
 
jet57 said:
So, you don't think that it's better for us and our kids that we don't have to worry about nuts with guns getting on school grounds.
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Unless there are no guns, a screening process is 100% perfect or schools are impregnable fortresses, there will always be a slight change that someone with a gun can get on school grounds.

You should be worrying about putting your kids/grandkids in car.
 
jet57 said:
Isn't it better for us to live life without having to worry about a nut with a gun at our kids' school?
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I understand statistics and probability. I'm not worried about it.
 
vegas giants said:
Can it be done? Sure. It is far far from typical
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So would you agree that it is far far from typical that these shooters would have police level training? Which is evident due to their desire to seek out places that are "gun free", as well as many of these shooters purchasing the firearm days, weeks, or months before their rampage! So why do anti gun people insist that it would take a police officer with it superior training to stop one of these shooters who have very little training.
 
jet57 said:
Isn't it better for us to live life without having to worry about a nut with a gun at our kids' school?
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How would you propose people live life without the worry of a gun at a school given the limitations our constitution places on what the government can restrict?
 
JLee1977 said:
So would you agree that it is far far from typical that these shooters would have police level training? Which is evident due to their desire to seek out places that are "gun free", as well as many of these shooters purchasing the firearm days, weeks, or months before their rampage! So why do anti gun people insist that it would take a police officer with it superior training to stop one of these shooters who have very little training.
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What? Criminals don't have this police training and yet we make officers do all this training to go up against them. You are making my case.

Why are we doing this on the cheap? Pay cops to do it. Kids are worth it
 
vegas giants said:
What? Criminals don't have this police training and yet we make officers do all this training to go up against them. You are making my case.
Why are we doing this on the cheap? Pay cops to do it. Kids are worth it
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You suggest that police are the only ones who could take on a shooter because the have trained with their firearms. Then you belittle the people who aren't police who might just have the same level of training, who are willing, and capable of reacting to these situations. It doen't take police level firearms training to stop a person who does not have the same level of training. You made my point!
 
JLee1977 said:
You suggest that police are the only ones who could take on a shooter because the have trained with their firearms. Then you belittle the people who aren't police who might just have the same level of training, who are willing, and capable of reacting to these situations. It doen't take police level firearms training to stop a person who does not have the same level of training. You made my point!
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If they have the same level of training they need only present their basic post certificate. Not a certificate from Wild Bill's Shooting Emporium.
 
vegas giants said:
Again you are wrong. There are several levels of certification with the first being the BASIC POST Certificate
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Again, that still doesn't mean that department can't allow their officers to patrol the streets while obtaining that certificate. As I said, my academy had several students sworn before they graduated and complete the state exam and they were in full uniform and was doing their FTO. There are two local departments I know of that only have a 10 week FTO program and then they are on their own.
 
vegas giants said:
If you have not been trained in use of force, tactical decision making, assessing threats and determining the trajectory of your fire then you have a lousy department. Civilians don't normally get any of that.
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First off their are civilian classes that teach the same thing. Second, I'm not sure trajectory really matters in an active shooter scenarion in most cases.
 
vegas giants said:
Show me a department that does not train in these things
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They all train in tbese things. The problem we have is you saying that a cop can't go on a beat by himself without one. That is simply not true. I can go to my local departments' website and pull up the minimum requirements which all it says for a cop in their department to go on their own they need to go through a 10 week FTO.
 
While I feel the POST cert requirement is overkill, I would hope any school that chooses armed staff as a precautionary measure requires some sort of training. A mix of book, range, and high stress simulations would be the minimum IMO
 
Maccabee said:
They all train in tbese things. The problem we have is you saying that a cop can't go on a beat by himself without one. That is simply not true. I can go to my local departments' website and pull up the minimum requirements which all it says for a cop in their department to go on their own they need to go through a 10 week FTO.
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That cop is closely supervised . That is a fact. His sarge or another is called to most of his calls. You want teachers to have guns around kids all day with no direct supervision
 
Maccabee said:
Again, that still doesn't mean that department can't allow their officers to patrol the streets while obtaining that certificate. As I said, my academy had several students sworn before they graduated and complete the state exam and they were in full uniform and was doing their FTO. There are two local departments I know of that only have a 10 week FTO program and then they are on their own.
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The t in FTO stands for training. They are being trained
 
Chillfolks said:
While I feel the POST cert requirement is overkill, I would hope any school that chooses armed staff as a precautionary measure requires some sort of training. A mix of book, range, and high stress simulations would be the minimum IMO
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More often than not, a place that requires some sort of firearms training is more to satisfy the legal department regarding liability, and getting sued, than assurance that the person carrying a firearm can hit their target.

Police training academies can't even accurately prepare their cadets, for the high stress of real combat. They do their best with Simunitions, airsoft, or paintball, but it is still not the same.
 
Chillfolks said:
How would you propose people live life without the worry of a gun at a school given the limitations our constitution places on what the government can restrict?
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The same way did until until school shootings became a thing.
 
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