• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

You are in a public location. A man has a pistol or rifle and is shooting at people, you can choose

Renae

Renae

Banned
Suspended
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
50,241
Reaction score
19,243
Location
San Antonio Texas
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
You are in a public location. A man has a pistol or rifle and is shooting at people, you can choose to have either a pistol of your own, or a phone.
Which would you rather have in that scenario, and why?
 
Renae said:
You are in a public location. A man has a pistol or rifle and is shooting at people, you can choose to have either a pistol of your own, or a phone.
Which would you rather have in that scenario, and why?
Click to expand...

A phone.

Despite being comfortable and familiar with handling firearms (rifles), I am not trained in taking out targets that will shoot back in crowded public spaces (I'm assuming the public place is crowded, as why would a shooter head for an empty public space). Therefore my chances of missing and killing an innocent, in the heat and stress of the moment, are significantly higher than a police officer, who may be within a 3 - 4 minute response area (again, this being a crowded public space there is likely police close by default).
 
OlNate said:
A phone.

Despite being comfortable and familiar with handling firearms (rifles), I am not trained in taking out targets that will shoot back in crowded public spaces (I'm assuming the public place is crowded, as why would a shooter head for an empty public space). Therefore my chances of missing and killing an innocent, in the heat and stress of the moment, are significantly higher than a police officer, who may be within a 3 - 4 minute response area (again, this being a crowded public space there is likely police close by default).
Click to expand...


curious; what would you do with the phone?

cops will have just as much likely hood of shooting innocent bystanders as you would ............
 
Renae said:
You are in a public location. A man has a pistol or rifle and is shooting at people, you can choose to have either a pistol of your own, or a phone.
Which would you rather have in that scenario, and why?
Click to expand...

I choose a pistol. While I'm sure I'd be ****ting myself at that moment, I don't want to be a sitting duck and virtually all other folks would have a phone. Besides, even if I had a phone and could alert 911 so officers were dispatched, there's no guarantee those officers would reach us or even get near enough to assist if they could.

Yep, I'd take the pistol and try to get as many people barricaded safely in a room or in another spot where we could see the shooter when he approached. Then, shoot if he did.

At least, I hope that's what I would do.
 
I would prefer to have a phone. I would be able to contact the authorities and provide accurate live shooter data so that when police and EMS arrive they can ensure they're saving the most amount of lives they can, as well as providing potential evidence for a later trial. The police knowing who they are going up against, how many shooters there are, what they are armed with, and their positions, activities, and descriptions can help ensure a shooter doesn't get away. I could also potentially use the phone to notify others of the shooters activities and put more people in their path on the alert so they can respond.

I wouldn't choose a gun for a response simply because I am not a marksman and I wouldn't be able the handle myself in a fashion that would contribute to a quick and peaceful resolution of the situation using a firearm. If I had the opportunity to engage the shooter in a way I felt confident I could surprise and overpower them to render them no longer a threat, I would do that as I am neither small nor slow... but as I only normally carry a knife it would only be something I tried from a position of desperation to save myself or others.
 
Renae said:
You are in a public location. A man has a pistol or rifle and is shooting at people, you can choose to have either a pistol of your own, or a phone.
Which would you rather have in that scenario, and why?
Click to expand...

My pistol.

The fact that people are being shot ups the odds that LEO help is likely on the way without my call (more other folks have phones than guns). My proximity to cover and having a clear view of the shooter will decide if I elect to shoot back. The fact that LEOs are likely on their way means that to expose myself and my pistol to shoot may get me shot (mistaken for the bad guy).
 
Renae said:
You are in a public location. A man has a pistol or rifle and is shooting at people, you can choose to have either a pistol of your own, or a phone.
Which would you rather have in that scenario, and why?
Click to expand...

Not enough information to make the decision. But in general I'll hope to utilize the pistol to neutralize the situation, then call the cops and wait 15 minutes for them to arrive.
 
OlNate said:
A phone.

Despite being comfortable and familiar with handling firearms (rifles), I am not trained in taking out targets that will shoot back in crowded public spaces (I'm assuming the public place is crowded, as why would a shooter head for an empty public space). Therefore my chances of missing and killing an innocent, in the heat and stress of the moment, are significantly higher than a police officer, who may be within a 3 - 4 minute response area (again, this being a crowded public space there is likely police close by default).
Click to expand...

Why would a police officer be assumed to have less chance of an errant shot or be able to respond as rapidly (thus saving more lives) than someone already there?
 
cuban smokes said:
curious; what would you do with the phone?

cops will have just as much likely hood of shooting innocent bystanders as you would ............
Click to expand...

I don't think that's right...I have to believe that police would have training in how to deal with a shooter in a public place - much more than me, anyway. Bottom line, while I enjoy shooting and the use of guns, I don't have enough confidence in my ability to guarantee that I wouldn't do more harm than good.

So, of the two, I'd take the phone, at least I could do something with it, rather than the gun, which my own sense of personal responsibility would prevent me from using in that scenario. This is just me, I'm sure there are people who would have the proficiency and training (perhaps retired police or military or security or just really motivated citizenry) who would take the gun and it would be a good choice.
 
jimbo said:
Not enough information to make the decision. But in general I'll hope to utilize the pistol to neutralize the situation, then call the cops and wait 15 minutes for them to arrive.
Click to expand...

Plenty of information was given - you are in the area of a mass shooter. You can have either your pistol or your phone. You can't utilize your pistol if you have opted for your phone instead and vice versa.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Why would a police officer be assumed to have less chance of an errant shot or be able to respond as rapidly (thus saving more lives) than someone already there?
Click to expand...

The question was what would I rather have. Just being honest, I know what my groupings look like when I'm not in a high stress situation... hehe... Just because I enjoy shooting doesn't mean I'm especially good at it.
 
Renae said:
You are in a public location. A man has a pistol or rifle and is shooting at people, you can choose to have either a pistol of your own, or a phone.
Which would you rather have in that scenario, and why?
Click to expand...

Depends on who is being shot at. I might prefer a phone, just to call in more shooters. :)
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Plenty of information was given - you are in the area of a mass shooter. You can have either your pistol or your phone. You can't utilize your pistol if you have opted for your phone instead and vice versa.
Click to expand...

Pistol then, can't do a thing with the phone. But I wont be going out to try and take on the shooter. I'd take cover (NOT CONCEALMENT) facing a choke point and hold the spot until the crisis is over.

Why am I not going to be a hero? Because unless I know someone I care about is out there I'm listening to Massad Ayoob's advice for mass shootings which goes:
"When the police are looking for a man with a gun, DON'T BE ONE!"
 
OlNate said:
The question was what would I rather have. Just being honest, I know what my groupings look like when I'm not in a high stress situation... hehe... Just because I enjoy shooting doesn't mean I'm especially good at it.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. Even if you are not a crack shot, if you can assume a position of cover and draw the shooter's attention (gunfire is a great attention getter) you could potentially save lives (of course, at greater risk to your own). If the shooter is killing folks at a rate of two per minute then a 4 minute (fairly fast) police response would cost 8 lives.
 
i choose my pistol if i am within a decent range with my glock

depending on distance to shooter, i am fairly confident i can hit what i am aiming for, based on years of practice at the range

now if i am too far away, that changes the equation....and i become just another target like everyone else (and a slow one at that)
 
Renae said:
You are in a public location. A man has a pistol or rifle and is shooting at people, you can choose to have either a pistol of your own, or a phone.
Which would you rather have in that scenario, and why?
Click to expand...

Pistol, hands down. I can either deal with the threat quickly before the police arrives or shelter in place with my pistol pointed at the exit in case he comes where I'm at.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Fair enough. Even if you are not a crack shot, if you can assume a position of cover and draw the shooter's attention (gunfire is a great attention getter) you could potentially save lives (of course, at greater risk to your own). If the shooter is killing folks at a rate of two per minute then a 4 minute (fairly fast) police response would cost 8 lives.
Click to expand...

I hear you. And it's a tough call. Plus, who doesn't want to be the hero, right?

But since this is a hypothetical, I can afford to be logical. I have a potential to cause harm directly with a gun, and I have no potential to cause harm directly with a phone.

Now, flip the script, and give me both, and I might go in a different direction. But if I can only have one, given my ability and my statistical odds of taking the shooter down, vs. adding to their kill count, I have to take the phone.

Also, add the variable of my family being huddled behind me, and of course I go in a different direction. There are a million ways to answer this, depending on the variables, but if it's just me, and it's a crowded public place, I take the phone.
 
Phone.

No matter how much training you have in firearms, you are not qualified to take down a shooter in a public space unless you're LEO.

Unless the shooter is 5-10 feet away from me, I would be so paranoid about missing and my stray bullet hitting someone else.
 
Northern Light said:
Phone.

No matter how much training you have in firearms, you are not qualified to take down a shooter in a public space unless you're LEO.

Unless the shooter is 5-10 feet away from me, I would be so paranoid about missing and my stray bullet hitting someone else.
Click to expand...

Really? So not even a Navy sharpshooter?

You have any idea how little training LEO's are required to have? Your average CCW permit holder is a better shot. Seriously go to the range one day and look at an LEO's groupings, they are terrible. Also law enforcement almost always have crappy factory iron sights.
 
OlNate said:
I don't think that's right...I have to believe that police would have training in how to deal with a shooter in a public place - much more than me, anyway. Bottom line, while I enjoy shooting and the use of guns, I don't have enough confidence in my ability to guarantee that I wouldn't do more harm than good.
Click to expand...

Actual police training: move in the opposite direction of where people are running from or towards the sound of gun fure which ever is more reliable. If you have a chance, stop one of the people running asking him where's the shooter and what he looks like. Once you've identifued the shooter, stop him by any means necessary.

In other words, you don't have to be a Navy SEAL to take down an active shooter. More likely the shooter will be easy to hit as every one else is either ducking or injured
So, of the two, I'd take the phone, at least I could do something with it, rather than the gun, which my own sense of personal responsibility would prevent me from using in that scenario. This is just me, I'm sure there are people who would have the proficiency and training (perhaps retired police or military or security or just really motivated citizenry) who would take the gun and it would be a good choice.
Click to expand...
At least you know you limitations.
 
Northern Light said:
Phone.

No matter how much training you have in firearms, you are not qualified to take down a shooter in a public space unless you're LEO.

Unless the shooter is 5-10 feet away from me, I would be so paranoid about missing and my stray bullet hitting someone else.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you meant by qualified. In context, it seems that you meant exempt from personal responsibility. If so, that is very scary and places your life in danger from two shooters.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Plenty of information was given - you are in the area of a mass shooter. You can have either your pistol or your phone. You can't utilize your pistol if you have opted for your phone instead and vice versa.
Click to expand...

How large is this area? Which of my pistols do I have? Am I in immediate danger? Or can I wait until the cops finally arrive? Is the shooter hiding in a clock tower or running toward me firing randomly? Is there any immediate cover available?

Plenty of questions,, but in general I'm a DIY kind of guy. And I would want to be standing in the middle of a field dialing 911 when I have an immediate problem.
 
Northern Light said:
Phone.

No matter how much training you have in firearms, you are not qualified to take down a shooter in a public space unless you're LEO.

Unless the shooter is 5-10 feet away from me, I would be so paranoid about missing and my stray bullet hitting someone else.
Click to expand...

The average armed citizen is actually more proficient than what is the minimum training standards of most departments. LEOs (unless they are SWAT) are really no more trained in firearms than someone who goes plinking on the weekends.
 
Maccabee said:
Actual police training: move in the opposite direction of where people are running from or towards the sound of gun fure which ever is more reliable. If you have a chance, stop one of the people running asking him where's the shooter and what he looks like. Once you've identifued the shooter, stop him by any means necessary.

In other words, you don't have to be a Navy SEAL to take down an active shooter. More likely the shooter will be easy to hit as every one else is either ducking or injured

At least you know you limitations.
Click to expand...

hehe...oh, I'd say police spend a fair bit more time at the range than I do...at least, I hope so!

Knowing one's limitations can save as many, if not more, lives than ignoring one's limitations. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom