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You are in a public location. A man has a pistol or rifle and is shooting at people, you can choose

OlNate said:
I'm just saying what I'd do, bud... :) I'm not a good enough shot to feel responsible firing at a shooter in a crowd of people. So, today, in this thread, I'll take the phone. Even if there were already a hundred calls in. If I have the gun, I will feel obliged to use it, whether I'm qualified in the situation to or not.

I'm not talking **** about anyone that would choose the gun, by the way. Everyone has to answer that question for themselves "Can I be sure that I won't increase risk and harm". If the answer is yes, good on you, I look up to and admire folks that have the capacity to help others, regardless to what that help is.
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I'm also a very strongly protective type. A few months back, a guy was paying too much attention to my wife when she was leaving work in the evenings (WalMart). Parking next to her and hanging out at the front entrance for hours, chatting with the greeters, until my wife was ready to leave and then walking her out to her car. As soon as I found out, I made it a point let him see me and her together (with lots of eye contact) and he backed off fast and eventually stopped coming to the store altogether. Had he not backed off, I would have been waiting for him in the parking lot with a couple of friends (already lined up) to let him know that he needed to find another WalMart to hang out at. I'm also head usher at my church and I ALWAYS have plan for what to do in case of a problem (usually talkative teenagers or spilled coffee). So I'm always in "protection mode".
 
Renae said:
You are in a public location. A man has a pistol or rifle and is shooting at people, you can choose to have either a pistol of your own, or a phone.
Which would you rather have in that scenario, and why?
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in another, left wing fantasy, i happen to belong to a militia, well regulated, and am going to the armory with my mortar, after hard days' practice.
 
VanceMack said:
Gun. I will take the fighting chance. There will be plenty already calling the police, and more than a few of the dumbasses livestreaming their death.

That so many would choose a phone knowing the police response times...****ing...just...embarrassing. But it explains skinny jeans and bronies.
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hehe, reminds me of the opening scene in the movie "Scary Movie" where the killer is coming after Carmen Electra's character and faced with a table full of weapons and a banana she chooses the banana and runs for it.

If you haven't seen it:

 
faithful_servant said:
I'm also a very strongly protective type. A few months back, a guy was paying too much attention to my wife when she was leaving work in the evenings (WalMart). Parking next to her and hanging out at the front entrance for hours, chatting with the greeters, until my wife was ready to leave and then walking her out to her car. As soon as I found out, I made it a point let him see me and her together (with lots of eye contact) and he backed off fast and eventually stopped coming to the store altogether. Had he not backed off, I would have been waiting for him in the parking lot with a couple of friends (already lined up) to let him know that he needed to find another WalMart to hang out at. I'm also head usher at my church and I ALWAYS have plan for what to do in case of a problem (usually talkative teenagers or spilled coffee). So I'm always in "protection mode".
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Oh, I can relate to that completely. Take the guns out of the equation, and I'm the first one to help out. I'm not afraid to take or throw a punch, and I've been somewhat blessed with a body type that is good for knocking people down (I'm not gym bunny, not trying to misrepresent, but I'm tall and there's a lot of me that can get behind a punch...I was a nose guard and left tackle in high school, and I didn't exactly shrink...lolz). I'm not a d-bag with it, but there's been a few times where I've stopped fights without fear for myself, as well as a few other altercations that were serious enough that I got involved, and without much hesitation.

So, I get the protectionist thing...for sure...especially when it comes to people I care about. But I'm a lot more confident on my ability to avoid hurting someone accidentally with my fists or a bat or a hockey stick than I am with a gun.
 
americanwoman said:
hehe, reminds me of the opening scene in the movie "Scary Movie" where the killer is coming after Carmen Electra's character and faced with a table full of weapons and a banana she chooses the banana and runs for it.

If you haven't seen it:

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Well...the banana was probably at least a better option than the hand grenade...so...points for that...
 
faithful_servant said:
Watch the area behind the shooter and once it's clear, put a few rounds as close to her as possible to get her focus away from shooting people and on getting her head down. Every second that the shooter isn't actively firing is time for people to get into cover.
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I believe that where Northern uses qualified he actually means authorized. Which is not true either. A high percentage of concealed carriers are qualified. Some are not. Most of the time you are authorized if you or someone else is in immediate danger.
 
Rucker61 said:
Tell the Chicago Uber driver or the Philadelphia barbershop passerby that a civilian with a handgun can't stop an active shooter.
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That's great and I'm glad those situations were resolved, but we should not make it policy.

I have taken a lot of self-defense courses over the years. My partner has done security as well. Adding more weapons to a weaponized situation increases the risk of harm exponentially. The OP scenario is simplistic. In reality there are so many variables at work and a great level of unpredictability. Any time someone takes defensive matters into their own hands with a weapon, the risk to others and themselves increases a lot, especially indoors.

If we're talking an outdoors public situation, the risk is less because the easiest and safest thing to do is simply run away. Even in somewhere like a mall, if the assailant is visible, the first instruction we give in self-defense is to RUN. Running is always the best option if you can. Hiding is second, as long as you are beyond a barrier that can withstand a gunshot and not have you discovered. If you want to play hero then you better be prepared for the consequences: either you being shot/killed, or someone else being shot/killed by you or by the assailant, both of which should have criminal consequences.

If people have specialized military training (well beyond basic) or hostage training, then I would be open to those exceptions, but just because you own a gun and think you can take on an assailant does not mean you should. Just because you have a gun does not mean the situation is equalized. You have to have proper judgment assessment and critical thinking ability to know how to deploy weaponized suppression of a violent situation, otherwise the risk to others can be GREAT.

A lot of gun owners who are used to target practice like to talk big but in a public shootout scenario they are usually in way over their heads. All it takes is an arrogant gun owner with CCW and the situation could become a lot more dangerous.

YES, it can also end well too. What I'm talking about here is risk assessment. In terms of risk, adding more guns by untrained people (untrained = no training in how to deal with public shootouts or potential hostage situations) increases danger. The police are trained to deal with this, so are SWAT. If their training is demonstrably lacking then that's a liability issue that police departments have to deal with should the need arise, but in terms of realpolitik the police are the ones who deal with this **** not cowboy civilians.
 
What's worse? Possibly stopping a mass shooting two minutes in or giving the shooter eight extra minutes to kill a bunch of unarmed instagrammers?
 
Northern Light said:
Phone.

No matter how much training you have in firearms, you are not qualified to take down a shooter in a public space unless you're LEO.

Unless the shooter is 5-10 feet away from me, I would be so paranoid about missing and my stray bullet hitting someone else.
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It's far better to let the bad guy kill people then to take the risk you might miss in trying to save lives. So 20 people died, but you had your phone! MORAL VICTORY!

I have my Expert pistol badge, I have been through training, I'm a decent shot. If I were in that situation, I would want my gun, I would shoot the shooter, aim center mass and neutralize him. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing I could have saved lives but didn't.
 
cuban smokes said:
curious; what would you do with the phone?

cops will have just as much likely hood of shooting innocent bystanders as you would ............
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Unless they hide like in Florida at the school shooting


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Phone. I can't shoot, and if I had a pistol, and the cops weren't too scared to enter the area, they'd probably shoot me.
 
Renae said:
You are in a public location. A man has a pistol or rifle and is shooting at people, you can choose to have either a pistol of your own, or a phone.
Which would you rather have in that scenario, and why?
Click to expand...



Having been exposed to the reality of accuracy with a hand gun for those who are not competitive shooters, I will take the phone....AND try to draw his fire from a safe position.

People see movies where the hero shoots out the 1" button on a bomb from 50 yards. Might happen once in 500 million years.

Look, my dad was a competitive pistol marksman. I have inherited his targets, five with a perfect 100 score with center fire ammo. It took him 30 years of practice to get his first.

Another gun, especially in the hands of a novice simply increases risk by a degree of magnitude
 
Fearandloathing said:
Having been exposed to the reality of accuracy with a hand gun for those who are not competitive shooters, I will take the phone....AND try to draw his fire from a safe position.

People see movies where the hero shoots out the 1" button on a bomb from 50 yards. Might happen once in 500 million years.

Look, my dad was a competitive pistol marksman. I have inherited his targets, five with a perfect 100 score with center fire ammo. It took him 30 years of practice to get his first.

Another gun, especially in the hands of a novice simply increases risk by a degree of magnitude
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That's why you aim center mass. I'm not trying to shoot the gun out his hands, or "HEAD SHOT!!!" like a video game. You aim center mass, the torso is a large target.
 
calamity said:
Depends on who is being shot at. I might prefer a phone, just to call in more shooters. :)
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I'll take the pistol and put a cap in that mofo's ass :cool:
 
Renae said:
You are in a public location. A man has a pistol or rifle and is shooting at people, you can choose to have either a pistol of your own, or a phone.
Which would you rather have in that scenario, and why?
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Well.. there is too little information to make an informed decision.

IF I realize that there is a rifle shooter.. sniping from a long distance.. a phone would be better to coordinate the police and help give them an accurate picture of what they are dealing with and how to deal with it. (as in this building, third floor, 5 window from the west etc.

IF it was a situation where there was a mass shooter in the immediate vicinity in which I could end the threat with a pistol? the pistol.

I train enough and am accurate enough that I can be more than confident that I would pose more threat to the shooter than any risk to bystanders.
 
Renae said:
You are in a public location. A man has a pistol or rifle and is shooting at people, you can choose to have either a pistol of your own, or a phone.
Which would you rather have in that scenario, and why?
Click to expand...


I'll take the pistol. I'm a very good shot and no stranger to trouble, and I expect I could save some lives.




Real world, I usually have both anyway.
 
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Renae said:
You are in a public location. A man has a pistol or rifle and is shooting at people, you can choose to have either a pistol of your own, or a phone.
Which would you rather have in that scenario, and why?
Click to expand...

Everyone has a phone. I carry a gun. And if you have a gun you should have a phone in this day and age. I sure hope I have the presence of mind and guts to shoot back. I have every intent to do so before hand. But if that happens God forbid...I’d hope I could save people.
 
jaeger19 said:
Well.. there is too little information to make an informed decision.

IF I realize that there is a rifle shooter.. sniping from a long distance.. a phone would be better to coordinate the police and help give them an accurate picture of what they are dealing with and how to deal with it. (as in this building, third floor, 5 window from the west etc.

IF it was a situation where there was a mass shooter in the immediate vicinity in which I could end the threat with a pistol? the pistol.

I train enough and am accurate enough that I can be more than confident that I would pose more threat to the shooter than any risk to bystanders.
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Jaeger, it's a hypothetical, I read this somewhere else, the point of it being letting people just explain how they would want to approach a scenario, each has a pro and a con.
 
holbritter said:
I'll take the pistol and put a cap in that mofo's ass :cool:
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Who needs the pistol? I'd just tear him limb from limb---in fact, he'd drop the gun and surrender as soon as I reared my powerful presence. Dude would bow down before me like I was his maker. ;)
 
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