• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The NRA Is Losing

TurtleDude said:
complete idiocy combined with more leftist hate of the NRA. nothing stops the ATF from prosecuting felons who lie on form 4473-the NRA has urged more prosecutions here. nothing stops the ATF etc from prosecuting straw buyers-the NRA has urged more prosecutions here. Nothing stops the federal and state law enforcement form prosecuting felons or others prohibited persons who are caught with firearms-the NRA has supported increased prosecutions and sentences for this. so you are lying yet again about the NRA
Click to expand...

Ahhh more cherry picking and outright delusion.

Fact- the average FFL is inspected every 7 years or so, so that helps stop prosecuting felons. But more to the point the rabid right denied the ATF the same oversight the USDA has over dairy farms. If an FFL is found to have multiple violations (That is where the real rubber meets the road) they are barred by Congress from returning in a reasonable time. Further inspections require court orders- something Congress passed just for the ATF, again the USDA doesn't have to get a court order to re-inspect multiple violation dairy farms.

The NRA 'urges' chasing rabbits rather than addressing the real culprit- FFL with little if any record of hundreds of firearms no longer in their inventory... :doh

Straw buyers, multiple buyers are difficult to expose due to the inability of the ATF to have any sort of speedy inspection process- even if an FFL is finally taken to court, most often the business simply folds, and reopens under a family member and the offender gets to continue in business.

The NRA wishes are hollow when it comes to felons caught with firearms- the regular law enforcement agencies have always enforced the law- big freakin deal the NRA 'supports' this... :roll:

The NRA is all about protecting the business of selling firearms and little about enforcing the regulations... :peace
 
Rucker61 said:
"Liberal court" isn't limited to SCOTUS. See recent gun rights decisions from the 2nd, 4th, 7th and 9th Circuit Court of appeals that uphold restrictions and bans in multiple states.
Click to expand...

More rabid 'gun' rubber crap... has any lower court even refused the ruling of the SUPREME Court?

Please try and name the bans upheld by lower courts. Restrictions don't count as no amendment is without restrictions- the age to purchase a pistol for example, felons can't purchase a firearm even after they have their voting rights returned...

I know the 'gun' rubbers want everyone to buy into the ILA/NRA fear mongering, but then again who appoints the judges in the lower courts? (hint the same folks who appoint the Supreme Court Justices)

Fact is the courts are 'liberal' only when they don't agree with whatever faction of the rabid right wanted their law declared Constitutional... :peace
 
notquiteright said:
Ahhh more cherry picking and outright delusion.

Fact- the average FFL is inspected every 7 years or so, so that helps stop prosecuting felons. But more to the point the rabid right denied the ATF the same oversight the USDA has over dairy farms. If an FFL is found to have multiple violations (That is where the real rubber meets the road) they are barred by Congress from returning in a reasonable time. Further inspections require court orders- something Congress passed just for the ATF, again the USDA doesn't have to get a court order to re-inspect multiple violation dairy farms.

The NRA 'urges' chasing rabbits rather than addressing the real culprit- FFL with little if any record of hundreds of firearms no longer in their inventory... :doh

Straw buyers, multiple buyers are difficult to expose due to the inability of the ATF to have any sort of speedy inspection process- even if an FFL is finally taken to court, most often the business simply folds, and reopens under a family member and the offender gets to continue in business.

The NRA wishes are hollow when it comes to felons caught with firearms- the regular law enforcement agencies have always enforced the law- big freakin deal the NRA 'supports' this... :roll:

The NRA is all about protecting the business of selling firearms and little about enforcing the regulations... :peace
Click to expand...

since I actually litigated FFL suits after their licenses were revoked by the ATF, I can tell you you really haven't a clue what you are talking about. The ATF, sadly, has a track record of harassing legitimate dealers for the same reason why dog wardens tend to ticket dogs running lose in wealthy areas rather than rounding up vicious pit bulls in drug gang turf. The ATF doesn't need much manpower to prosecute someone whose background check is denied
 
Rucker61 said:
"Liberal court" isn't limited to SCOTUS. See recent gun rights decisions from the 2nd, 4th, 7th and 9th Circuit Court of appeals that uphold restrictions and bans in multiple states.
Click to expand...

these courts are pretending that since the second amendment was only recently incorporated, they can ignore Heller and McDonald unless the laws are exactly the same as struck down by those two courts
 
TurtleDude said:
since I actually litigated FFL suits after their licenses were revoked by the ATF, I can tell you you really haven't a clue what you are talking about. The ATF, sadly, has a track record of harassing legitimate dealers for the same reason why dog wardens tend to ticket dogs running lose in wealthy areas rather than rounding up vicious pit bulls in drug gang turf. The ATF doesn't need much manpower to prosecute someone whose background check is denied
Click to expand...

So you dodge the points I brought up with more rabid right smoke and mirrors.

Most states have laws against felons attempting to obtain firearms- they are far more numerous to handle that- but you are just trying to divert the ATF (the only ones who can really reign in dishonest FFLs) from doing their duty. THAT is their duty and they are hamstrung to being able to visit an FFL once every 7 years.

The 'sad track record' is yet another ILA/NRA propaganda rant. Fact is Congress has made it almost impossible for the ATF to function- limiting field auditors, restricting the inspection of repeat multiple violators and getting meaningful court sentences.

Your dog is safe, the ATF isn't looking where the rich folks play but rather trying to stem the FFLs used by 'gun' runners... :peace
 
notquiteright said:
So you dodge the points I brought up with more rabid right smoke and mirrors.

Most states have laws against felons attempting to obtain firearms- they are far more numerous to handle that- but you are just trying to divert the ATF (the only ones who can really reign in dishonest FFLs) from doing their duty. THAT is their duty and they are hamstrung to being able to visit an FFL once every 7 years.

The 'sad track record' is yet another ILA/NRA propaganda rant. Fact is Congress has made it almost impossible for the ATF to function- limiting field auditors, restricting the inspection of repeat multiple violators and getting meaningful court sentences.

Your dog is safe, the ATF isn't looking where the rich folks play but rather trying to stem the FFLs used by 'gun' runners... :peace
Click to expand...

why don't you just stop wasting time and Say you don't like the candidates the NRA supports.
 
TurtleDude said:
why don't you just stop wasting time and Say you don't like the candidates the NRA supports.
Click to expand...

why don't you ever address the points presented? You dodge away with 'gun' rubber BS.

It's not the candidates the NRA supports but rather the industry that the NRA shills for that raises my eyebrow. And FYI I used to be an NRA member... :peace
 
notquiteright said:
why don't you ever address the points presented? You dodge away with 'gun' rubber BS.

It's not the candidates the NRA supports but rather the industry that the NRA shills for that raises my eyebrow. And FYI I used to be an NRA member... :peace
Click to expand...

Anything that protects the Second Amendment will always help those who depend on it, like the firearms industry. Whether the NRA "shills" for the firearms industry or lobbies to protect the 2A, the end result is the same and which position it actually is will be indiscernible to an outside viewer.
 
Rucker61 said:
Anything that protects the Second Amendment will always help those who depend on it, like the firearms industry. Whether the NRA "shills" for the firearms industry or lobbies to protect the 2A, the end result is the same and which position it actually is will be indiscernible to an outside viewer.
Click to expand...

Only to a rabid 'gun' rubber... they aren't protecting the 2nd A but using the 2nd A to insulate the Firearm Industry from accountability. IF they TRULY thought the 2nd A should not be infringed then the 21 age requirement for pistols is an infringement. If they did more than protect the Firearm Industry from realistic responsibility for FFL abuse they would fight for the re-instatement of the Right To Keep and Bear for non violent felons who have served their time and paid their debt to society.

But of course they don't, they are far more concerned with fear mongering while shamelessly begging for money... I was once a member of the NRA- have a half dozen hats... :peace
 
notquiteright said:
Only to a rabid 'gun' rubber... they aren't protecting the 2nd A but using the 2nd A to insulate the Firearm Industry from accountability. IF they TRULY thought the 2nd A should not be infringed then the 21 age requirement for pistols is an infringement. If they did more than protect the Firearm Industry from realistic responsibility for FFL abuse they would fight for the re-instatement of the Right To Keep and Bear for non violent felons who have served their time and paid their debt to society.

But of course they don't, they are far more concerned with fear mongering while shamelessly begging for money... I was once a member of the NRA- have a half dozen hats... :peace
Click to expand...

yet another lie. its funny watching leftwing NRA haters telling this 45 year member what this organization stands for.
 
TurtleDude said:
yet another lie. its funny watching leftwing NRA haters telling this 45 year member what this organization stands for.
Click to expand...



Yes their stupidity is telling. They don't know ****, and will never know ****. It is pointless trying to educate the idiots on the left. They are brainwashed, and corrupt to the core by their liberal Global Elite masters. Wish we could rid our land of them in a legal fashion.
 
TurtleDude said:
yet another lie. its funny watching leftwing NRA haters telling this 45 year member what this organization stands for.
Click to expand...

Yet another rabid 'gun' rubber deflection... never address the issues just flings empty words as if they carry any weight with those not frantically rubbing their 'guns'... :roll:

I served my country, carried more firepower on one patrol than most 'gun' rubbers will do their entire cherry lives, do support the 2nd A and the right to self defense, own a few firearms- few but well used and used well. I was an NRA member for years as well- to be rated in F-Class and sign postal comps for participants. If I had a nickel for every shameless fear mongering begging for more money I got from the ILA/NRA I could establish my own trust fund... ;)

What I don't do is try and claim the NRA cares a whit about 'protecting' citizens' rights but making sure the firearm industry doesn't have to take any responsibility for it's actions.

Again because the lawyer's golden spoon seems to block his sight... if the NRA cared a lick they would fight for restoration after time served, they would fight the age discrimination for pistol purchases, and Heller wouldn't have taken so damn long... :peace
 
notquiteright said:
Yet another rabid 'gun' rubber deflection... never address the issues just flings empty words as if they carry any weight with those not frantically rubbing their 'guns'... :roll:

I served my country, carried more firepower on one patrol than most 'gun' rubbers will do their entire cherry lives, do support the 2nd A and the right to self defense, own a few firearms- few but well used and used well. I was an NRA member for years as well- to be rated in F-Class and sign postal comps for participants. If I had a nickel for every shameless fear mongering begging for more money I got from the ILA/NRA I could establish my own trust fund... ;)

What I don't do is try and claim the NRA cares a whit about 'protecting' citizens' rights but making sure the firearm industry doesn't have to take any responsibility for it's actions.

Again because the lawyer's golden spoon seems to block his sight... if the NRA cared a lick they would fight for restoration after time served, they would fight the age discrimination for pistol purchases, and Heller wouldn't have taken so damn long... :peace
Click to expand...

It seems odd that some people on here can't believe that you support the second amendment, am a gun owner and know lots about guns but also believe in reasonable gun control and that the NRA is not working for americans
 
notquiteright said:
Yet another rabid 'gun' rubber deflection... never address the issues just flings empty words as if they carry any weight with those not frantically rubbing their 'guns'... :roll:

I served my country, carried more firepower on one patrol than most 'gun' rubbers will do their entire cherry lives, do support the 2nd A and the right to self defense, own a few firearms- few but well used and used well. I was an NRA member for years as well- to be rated in F-Class and sign postal comps for participants. If I had a nickel for every shameless fear mongering begging for more money I got from the ILA/NRA I could establish my own trust fund... ;)

What I don't do is try and claim the NRA cares a whit about 'protecting' citizens' rights but making sure the firearm industry doesn't have to take any responsibility for it's actions.

Again because the lawyer's golden spoon seems to block his sight... if the NRA cared a lick they would fight for restoration after time served, they would fight the age discrimination for pistol purchases, and Heller wouldn't have taken so damn long... :peace
Click to expand...

translation-you're a progressive meaning you favor the creeping crud of collectivism, socialist tax schemes etc. The NRA opposes the candidates who sling that swill. I don't deny you are a gun owner, I don't deny that you probably are a better than average shot. Not a world ranked one as I was but better than most, But your rants about the NRA are clearly based on politics. You're walking a thin line-you want to support your leftwing candidates but you do understand they are usually gun banners or gun restrictionists. So you attack the posts of those who correctly note that the gun banning movement is almost 100% leftist. But you have to be careful and not attack gun owning. SO you pretend by attacking the NRA you can attack those who criticize the creeping crud of collectivism without attacking gun rights.
 
vegas giants said:
It seems odd that some people on here can't believe that you support the second amendment, am a gun owner and know lots about guns but also believe in reasonable gun control and that the NRA is not working for americans
Click to expand...

Don't forget swore an oath to support and defend what they claim as their GAWD givin' or some 'natural' right...

If they are natural then it would be like rain or the tides, yanno natural... ;)

Oh and the NRA is working for Americans- just have to contribute enough significant digits to the K-Street crowd... :peace
 
TurtleDude said:
translation-you're a progressive meaning you favor the creeping crud of collectivism, socialist tax schemes etc. The NRA opposes the candidates who sling that swill. I don't deny you are a gun owner, I don't deny that you probably are a better than average shot. Not a world ranked one as I was but better than most, But your rants about the NRA are clearly based on politics. You're walking a thin line-you want to support your leftwing candidates but you do understand they are usually gun banners or gun restrictionists. So you attack the posts of those who correctly note that the gun banning movement is almost 100% leftist. But you have to be careful and not attack gun owning. SO you pretend by attacking the NRA you can attack those who criticize the creeping crud of collectivism without attacking gun rights.
Click to expand...

Oh and your rants are not based on politics and highly biased???? :roll:

Let's play your broad brush game- the tinfoil hat crowd who come in here ranting about 'proof' of Obama's FEMA concentration camps, stockpiled coffins, militarized police, turning the military on civilians are rabid right wing 'gun' rubbers'... :shock:

But to be fair the extremists on both sides are rather off-putting to the independents. Calls for a certain weapon to be highly restricted don't have as much support as the fear mongering 'gun' rubbers wail about. I personally don't see where limiting mag cap is unconstitutional, setting age limits on certain weapons, holding the firearm industry responsible for those who sell their wares.

The NRA could care less about anything but protecting the Firearm Industry- healthcare, infrastructure, funding for education not so much. So they only measure by one metric and to hell with the rest.

You drag 'gun' banners in like they have a snowball's chance so you can rant and wail... weak tea at best. It is like saying the rabid religious right can roll back same sex marriage- there will always some stalking horse 'real' Americans can drag in as 'proof' of fiendish plot to limit rights, but realistic changes...

Fact is far more voters are more like me (minus the whole was a grunt thing) and do see reasonable regulations as not banning, do want the ATF to be able to function with more auditors and at least the same abilities the USDA gives their inspectors. We don't see some E-Vile plot to take our 'guns' and make us serfs to the overlords. The constant deluge of fear mongering ILA/NRA begging for more and more money turned me away from the NRA. The ignorant crap they claimed would happen if I didn't send in a check... I don't live in fear so the letters just crap.

Now when it comes to not having a warm fuzzy about candidates the NRA pours funds into- unlike the rabid 'gun' rubbers I look past the NRA rating and ask about healthcare, same sex marriage, fixing our roads, funding our schools... things that should matter to us all.

I can support a NRA endorsed candidate. It's just I judge on more than the NRA rating... :peace
 
notquiteright said:
Oh and your rants are not based on politics and highly biased???? :roll:

Let's play your broad brush game- the tinfoil hat crowd who come in here ranting about 'proof' of Obama's FEMA concentration camps, stockpiled coffins, militarized police, turning the military on civilians are rabid right wing 'gun' rubbers'... :shock:

But to be fair the extremists on both sides are rather off-putting to the independents. Calls for a certain weapon to be highly restricted don't have as much support as the fear mongering 'gun' rubbers wail about. I personally don't see where limiting mag cap is unconstitutional, setting age limits on certain weapons, holding the firearm industry responsible for those who sell their wares.

The NRA could care less about anything but protecting the Firearm Industry- healthcare, infrastructure, funding for education not so much. So they only measure by one metric and to hell with the rest.

You drag 'gun' banners in like they have a snowball's chance so you can rant and wail... weak tea at best. It is like saying the rabid religious right can roll back same sex marriage- there will always some stalking horse 'real' Americans can drag in as 'proof' of fiendish plot to limit rights, but realistic changes...

Fact is far more voters are more like me (minus the whole was a grunt thing) and do see reasonable regulations as not banning, do want the ATF to be able to function with more auditors and at least the same abilities the USDA gives their inspectors. We don't see some E-Vile plot to take our 'guns' and make us serfs to the overlords. The constant deluge of fear mongering ILA/NRA begging for more and more money turned me away from the NRA. The ignorant crap they claimed would happen if I didn't send in a check... I don't live in fear so the letters just crap.

Now when it comes to not having a warm fuzzy about candidates the NRA pours funds into- unlike the rabid 'gun' rubbers I look past the NRA rating and ask about healthcare, same sex marriage, fixing our roads, funding our schools... things that should matter to us all.

I can support a NRA endorsed candidate. It's just I judge on more than the NRA rating... :peace
Click to expand...

the bolded part is the current strategy from the Anti NRA left. Don't you think its the members' business what the NRA does rather than those who hate the politics of the NRA? I realize lefties get lots of things to hate in CORPORATIONS that make GUNS and SUPPORT pro gun candidates but really, this stupid attack is silly.
 
TurtleDude said:
the bolded part is the current strategy from the Anti NRA left. Don't you think its the members' business what the NRA does rather than those who hate the politics of the NRA? I realize lefties get lots of things to hate in CORPORATIONS that make GUNS and SUPPORT pro gun candidates but really, this stupid attack is silly.
Click to expand...

That is the problem with emotional based arguments very rarely do they make sense.
 
notquiteright said:
Oh and your rants are not based on politics and highly biased???? :roll:

Let's play your broad brush game- the tinfoil hat crowd who come in here ranting about 'proof' of Obama's FEMA concentration camps, stockpiled coffins, militarized police, turning the military on civilians are rabid right wing 'gun' rubbers'... :shock:

But to be fair the extremists on both sides are rather off-putting to the independents. Calls for a certain weapon to be highly restricted don't have as much support as the fear mongering 'gun' rubbers wail about. I personally don't see where limiting mag cap is unconstitutional, setting age limits on certain weapons, holding the firearm industry responsible for those who sell their wares.

The NRA could care less about anything but protecting the Firearm Industry- healthcare, infrastructure, funding for education not so much. So they only measure by one metric and to hell with the rest.

You drag 'gun' banners in like they have a snowball's chance so you can rant and wail... weak tea at best. It is like saying the rabid religious right can roll back same sex marriage- there will always some stalking horse 'real' Americans can drag in as 'proof' of fiendish plot to limit rights, but realistic changes...

Fact is far more voters are more like me (minus the whole was a grunt thing) and do see reasonable regulations as not banning, do want the ATF to be able to function with more auditors and at least the same abilities the USDA gives their inspectors. We don't see some E-Vile plot to take our 'guns' and make us serfs to the overlords. The constant deluge of fear mongering ILA/NRA begging for more and more money turned me away from the NRA. The ignorant crap they claimed would happen if I didn't send in a check... I don't live in fear so the letters just crap.

Now when it comes to not having a warm fuzzy about candidates the NRA pours funds into- unlike the rabid 'gun' rubbers I look past the NRA rating and ask about healthcare, same sex marriage, fixing our roads, funding our schools... things that should matter to us all.

I can support a NRA endorsed candidate. It's just I judge on more than the NRA rating... :peace
Click to expand...

An excellent post
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom