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Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243, 2001]

re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243, 2001]

Do you and 'American' realize that my posts are over a week old?

Long naps?

Don't pay any attention to them. The probably have, like, families, or jobs, or other equally stupid excuses for their unacceptable delays, instead of hanging out in their Mom's basement in anticipation of posts. /S
 
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re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243, 2001]

Don't pay any attention to them. The probably have, like, families, or jobs, or other equally stupid excuses for their unacceptable delays, instead of hanging out in their Mom's basement in anticipation of posts. /S
Oh wow, a 'living in your Mom's basement' joke, how original. :roll:
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243, 2001]

Do you and 'American' realize that my posts are over a week old?

Long naps?

Do you realize that I took a week long break from the stupidity displayed here far too often to clear my mind, and that I just got back into the grove and That I am commenting on things you and others posted, has something changed that I should be aware of?
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243, 2001]

https://www.history.com/topics/american-civil-war/american-civil-war-history



Note that it started after "decades of simmering."

It's still simmering. That's the point.

I already understood the start and end dates, I was expecting you to write them out. However you are stating that a civil war is still brewing from the late 1800's. What do you define a civil war as??

If we use facts and definitions it can be seen that a civil war is a "war between citizens of the same country". This means, according to you, every single country is in a state of civil war. That is simply not correct.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243, 2001]

Do you and 'American' realize that my posts are over a week old?

Long naps?

They're still wrong, and we don't want to miss a chance to let you know. Have a nice day.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243, 2001]

Oh wow, a 'living in your Mom's basement' joke, how original. :roll:

The truth doesn't worry itself about originality.
 
Re: Why do you "need" an AR 15?

non responsive. why don't you tell us why honest Americans should not be able to own AR 15s

He still trying to figure out what the designation AR-15 means.
 
Re: Why do you "need" an AR 15?

Let me add something to this that will probably not go over too well, and I expect to be ridiculed for it. We have taken away hope and the God who not only gives us that hope, but also holds us responsible for our actions.
We have replaced the 10 Commandments (6th) with metal detectors.

You are absolutely correct, and have no need to worry about the worldly ridicule you will receive for making that suggestion. God watches over (and provides for) his flock. To state your comment in a different way, we have unfortunately replaced a humble, thankful, fearful, content "God's will be done" type of worldview with a selfish, greedy, entitled, boastful "MY will be done" type of worldview.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243, 2001]

Firstly. A distinction and thus context needs to be drawn from the premise of what I was stating. The Constitution itself, that is the original document, is consistent. That is it has never changed or been altered Incorrect. The constitution has been amended several times since it was first written

However the interpretations are inconsistent, inconsistent meaning there is no one single interpretation that overrules with many appearing to contradict one and other or the Constitution itself.

Generally the constitution has been consistent in protecting freedom in this country.. however,, any inconsistency in that is simply another sign that the constitution is a living breathing document and not some outdated piece of parchment written by white slave owners.

Secondly. It comes back to two notions. The accumulation of deaths. That all human death should be treated equally.
??

Well I think that's obvious... do you really think that if your son is a drug dealer and gets in a fight with another drug dealer over which corner of the school parking lot they sell drugs and your son dies.... that society should treat his death exactly as they would treat my son dying of cancer?
Individuals cannot continue to state each year, "its not significant in comparison to other things", what is an acceptable number of deaths to you???
I guess the number of deaths in proportion to our resources and the consequences of trying to end said deaths. If we lived in a fantasy world where we had infinite resources, and there were no negative consequences.. I guess we would be at zero deaths are acceptable. but since we don't live in such a fantasy world..
So.. We have to decide with the resources available.. what makes sense. Spend billions trying to stop 11,000 deaths a year.. and divert resources from something that causes 200,000 deaths a year? Is it better to stop 11,000 deaths at the expense of 200,000?

We also have to decide based on the consequences of trying to end those deaths. Certainly we could outlaw say alcohol. 4300 deaths of just children a year.. not to mention the cost in damages, health concerns and so on. In fact.. in the not to distant past we tried that. It was an abysmal failure.

It is not merely emotions it is truth.

Of course its emotionally driven. You are trying to make an emotional argument "but why is one death different etc". AND NOT.. looking at the costs, the diversion of resources, loss of freedoms.. and other negative consequences.

To your next point. The items you list are actually very different to firearms. Can we agree that a firearm is classed as a weapon??

Again.. an appeal to emotion. Gasoline is a poison.. so are many medications when taken in the incorrect dose. Knives are weapons as well. Alcohol is definitely a poison. What you are doing is trying to make an emotional appeal against firearms in general.

the fact is. that most of my firearms.. are not designed to kill humans. And the ones that I have that are "designed to kill"... as you would say.. have never killed anyone and are used for practice, for competition and for fun shooting targets.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243, 2001]

Contrary the premise of firearms is to inflict harm on someone or something and/or to kill.

Again.. an emotional appeal. A firearm is no more dangerous in and of itself than pretty much any tool. A shovel, or a rock in the hands of someone that wants to murder you.. is far more dangerous than my competition .22 in the hands of someone that has no intent of killing you.

Cars are a necessity in our modern world thus stating "banning" them is absurd and not a reasonable point.

so are firearms.

How do you call this a "myriad".....
1) Alabama- No registration, no owner licenses, open carry is permitted and amongst other no background checks
2) Arizona- No registration, no assault weapons prohibitions or restrictions, open carry is permitted and no NFA restrictions

In those same states. Age restrictions on the purchase of firearms, age restrictions on the purchase of ammo. Background checks whenever purchasing from a dealer or having a concealed carry permit. Restrictions on where firearms can be carried and fired. Restrictions on sales to a myriad of people that have been adjudicated as unsafe. Severe penalties for crimes committed with firearms, penalties for knowingly giving a prohibited person a firearm. etc.

Can you buy a car at 12 in the united states? Yep.. legally you can. Can a felon purchase a car? Yep they can.

Can a 12 year old legally purchase a firearm.. no. Nor can a felon.

To your next point. I don't understand how you are able to correlate firearms to suicides, when Japan has had no suicides by firearm for at least 10 years. How about you correlate variables that actually bond together.

That's actually the point. Suicide and firearms don't have a correlation. Yep;. Japan does not have firearm suicides.. nor much in the way of firearms. And YET HAS A HIGHER RATE OF SUICIDE THAN THE US.

Thus.. firearms and suicide don't correlate well together.. and certainly there is not a causal factor.

The US may be safer than other countries but to claim as one of the safest is incorrect

Actually sorry but it is one of the safest.

The United States is often seen from abroad as a relatively lawless society, with murders and gun-related crimes aplenty. But a recent series of Gallup surveys in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States suggests that the image may be somewhat distorted. According to the surveys, the overall crime rate in the United States is lower than in Britain and about the same as in Canada. The polls also show that, among citizens in the three countries, Britons appear to have the least confidence in their police, while Canadians have the most. Britons are also the most likely to say that they live near an area where they would be afraid to walk alone at night.

Crime Rate Lower in United States, Canada Than in Britain

And by the way.. I supply plenty of evidence. Facts and logic are on my side.


BWAAAHHH... what a bunch of hokey research.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243, 2001]

So according to you removing the gun would not have reduced the number of deaths??

Well the question is whether you COULD have removed the gun.

And yes. even if you removed the gun it might not have reduced the number of deaths. A truck with fertilizer was pretty effective.

Have never argued that wasn't the case, the FBI is also to blame for the happenings but no more than the use of a firearm

Wow.. sorry,, but the firearm is an inanimate object.. it didn;t act of its own accord.

How is foster care suddenly supposed to clear their mind, their evil intent and thus them still ocnducting such an act.

Well.. one is to get them the mental health that they need. Its not like it was a parent that saw all these warning signs and didn;t have the resources nor the desire to go get little timmy some help. This kid was a ward of the state. They obviously knew he had issues. Heck he got kicked out school.. which should have generated some evaluation. Not to mention the number of times that police were called.

Have never denied the mental health aspects of this, they too need to be addressed. Programs, medical evaluations and counselling was not enough to limit the threat.

How do you state that on one hand it needs to be addressed.. and then on the other that it didn;t limit the threat? that makes no sense.

However if you removed the firearm the deaths significantly diminish,

Again.. that's merely opinion. What firearms were used in the Oklahoma city bombing?

In other words the damage inflicted with a knife, would have been far less than with a firearm

not necessarily.

What about a bomb/? Or starting a fire and blocking the exits. Or running down 30 kids in a crowded area?
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243, 2001]

volunteer to own an assault rifle, volunteer to muster and present Arms on a regular basis. It really is an Individual problem not an Institutional problem.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243, 2001]

volunteer to own an assault rifle, volunteer to muster and present Arms on a regular basis. It really is an Individual problem not an Institutional problem.

These are already banned, not surprised that you don't know that.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243, 2001]

don't ban guns, ban unorganized gun lovers who create nuisances, by regulated them well until they are well regulated militia.

Exactly right
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243, 2001]

you keep fixating on the age of the constitution. your idiotic claim that it is "outdated" is just plain silly. Your frantic hatred of timeless rights gets old

Correct I keep fixating on the Constitution which I and many believe is part of the problem in the United States, particularly with firearms. In reference to my 'idiotic claim' it is sufficient and evidential claim I make, additionally how is simply stating facts such as the Constitution is 225 years old and the interpretations are inconsistent. Its is not hatred, it is that I disagree that all rights are timeless, don't attempt to portray me as against all rights within the Constitution. What gets old is the inability for the US to address gun crime.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243, 2001]

Correct I keep fixating on the Constitution which I and many believe is part of the problem in the United States, particularly with firearms. In reference to my 'idiotic claim' it is sufficient and evidential claim I make, additionally how is simply stating facts such as the Constitution is 225 years old and the interpretations are inconsistent. Its is not hatred, it is that I disagree that all rights are timeless, don't attempt to portray me as against all rights within the Constitution. What gets old is the inability for the US to address gun crime.

I really don't care. we have the second amendment and foreigners have no say in its existence.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243, 2001]

Its what will protect us from folks like yourself that want to decrease our freedoms because of a short, ill advised panic over firearms.

Firstly. The same question has been asked for over half a decade, there has to be a point where it discontinues and action is taken. No doubt effective action needs to be taken.

To your second point. I am unsure if you are attempting to class myself as someone who perceives this as a "simple game", however I can strongly affirm that I understand this is a complex issue with a solution that favours no one. On that note "wax rhapsodic" means to praise excessively something that no anti-firearm individual does. On that note that is the crux of the firearm issue, mass shootings and innocent deaths of children and teenagers, additionally adults. If that is not what should be focused on, what should be then??? Lets also distinguish something that you have brought up.....I never brought up pool safety rather I was responding to someone who was accusing me of valuing the lives of those killed by firearms more than those killed in pools.

A distinction must be drawn between activities that are carried out daily and ones that are fundamental for society. Firearms are not fundamental for society, only a small sect who require it for their employment or sport.

Such as what??? It just seems that you have a very negative and skewed view toward people who are standing up for those have been killed by firearms in horrendous mass shootings and the like.

To your next point. Quite clearly you cannot view this from a legislative perspective thus lets look at this from another perspective. Lets take an artefact in a museum. That artefact could sit in a glass casing for 225 years and never get touched or altered. However some visitors who walks past it each day the Museum opens sees it from different perspectives, that is its role and its true meaning over 225 year ago and thus they make an informed judgement on it. The original document has not changed since it was introduced 225 years ago and is outdated for a modern audience, hence the reason it must be interpreted. It would not be interpreted if it was not outdated or suiting for a modern society.

To your fourth point. Never said anything about going back to 1875 because that would be unproductive and put society further out of modern times. This is a document that doesn't reflect terrorism or extremist groups or gay marriage or gay rights or the firearm issues or mental illness or immigration and a plethora of other modern day issues. How is this modern??

Finally. The 'swings' in legislation is part of a democratic / republican society. The political parties and thus societies changes in values represent this in the US and around the world, it is nothing new. Your justification of 'wild swings' is attempting to withdraw the natural environment in which a society evolves around. That is the governments role to determine what is appropriate action based on moral and ethical values, it is the minority/majority who stood up for these rights, basic human rights and international law that also stood up for these rights along with the Constitution and state and federal legislation ( don't attempt to morph the meaning I am presenting)

To end. Lets just clear up some misunderstandings.
- It will protect you there is no denying, but protections by something does not necessarily mean it should be undertaken. Just like protection under some laws to smoke certain drugs does not mean it should be undertaken.
- Decrease your freedoms in one respect but increase your and everyone else's freedom to walk the streets and travel into the city and not fear of the misuse of a firearm, increase the freedoms of individuals who find a gun is necessary to take their own life ( this is a mental health issue as well), increase freedoms for individuals who cannot receive an education without being subject to a mass shooting, increase freedoms of families rights to have and continue to have all family members safe and healthy (a shooting or mass shooting does not just impact those who have been shot or killed). But quite obviously you value the rights of gun owners only, not the rights of the whole US society.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243, 2001]

A couple of points, there is no way to remove guns, simple not possible, secondly you would have to include All guns which again is not possible. So what is the answer, how about we actually Enforce the laws already on the books, address the obvious mental health issue behind most mass shootings (which are actually a small percentage of gun deaths), and, OMG, install security measures to all our schools, if it is good enough for sporting events or any other event where lots of people attend why isn't it good enough for our children.

Firstly. That is quite simply your negative opinion. Countries throughout the world have expressed this continually and effectively. You cannot simply states removing guns won't work (at least putting in stricter legislation) when it has not been tested nor has been thought out and adapted to the US. It is like stating I don't like apples, even though you have not even tried or tasted one.

Secondly. That is false. You could include just assault rifles, certain types of firearms etc... Once again a blanket statement which is supported by no evidential notions.

To your third point. The current laws are being enforced to an extent, and quite simply a background check, registration or the restriction of certain types of firearms is not going to limit an individual getting their hands on a firearm. It is simply mechanics of thinking, if an individual wants to purchase a firearm in the US, you just have to go to a private firearm show or gain them on the black market. The inadequacy of protection in most US states underpins this notion. It is quite simply correlated on the state firearm deaths list, the majority of states at the top of the chart have stricter legislation and the you cannot simply claim they are more effective in enforcing the law compared to other states. It comes back to the legislation, to the bans which are inadequate in all US states.

To your mental health point. Mental health no doubt needs to be introduced but when numerous programs have been put in place, and over 1.2 billion dollars in the past 9 years its effectiveness must be considered. Thus far it has proved highly ineffective and must not continue to be primarily blamed for the horrors occurring presently.

Finally your last point is so misconstrued I am unable to understand what you are actually stating.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243, 2001]

Firstly. That is quite simply your negative opinion. Countries throughout the world have expressed this continually and effectively. You cannot simply states removing guns won't work (at least putting in stricter legislation) when it has not been tested nor has been thought out and adapted to the US. It is like stating I don't like apples, even though you have not even tried or tasted one.

Secondly. That is false. You could include just assault rifles, certain types of firearms etc... Once again a blanket statement which is supported by no evidential notions.

To your third point. The current laws are being enforced to an extent, and quite simply a background check, registration or the restriction of certain types of firearms is not going to limit an individual getting their hands on a firearm. It is simply mechanics of thinking, if an individual wants to purchase a firearm in the US, you just have to go to a private firearm show or gain them on the black market. The inadequacy of protection in most US states underpins this notion. It is quite simply correlated on the state firearm deaths list, the majority of states at the top of the chart have stricter legislation and the you cannot simply claim they are more effective in enforcing the law compared to other states. It comes back to the legislation, to the bans which are inadequate in all US states.

To your mental health point. Mental health no doubt needs to be introduced but when numerous programs have been put in place, and over 1.2 billion dollars in the past 9 years its effectiveness must be considered. Thus far it has proved highly ineffective and must not continue to be primarily blamed for the horrors occurring presently.

Finally your last point is so misconstrued I am unable to understand what you are actually stating[/.
Yeup that would be the best way to put your reply.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243, 2001]

Firstly. A distinction and thus context needs to be drawn from the premise of what I was stating. The Constitution itself, that is the original document, is consistent.

the fact is. that most of my firearms.. are not designed to kill humans. And the ones that I have that are "designed to kill"... as you would say.. have never killed anyone and are used for practice, for competition and for fun shooting targets.

Firstly. Never denied that notion. A "living" and "breathing" document is not one that doesn't recognise terrorism or extremist groups or gay marriage or gay rights or the firearm issues or mental illness or immigration and a plethora of other modern day issues. It implies brevity and clarity, not nebulous and vague terms and wordings as the Constitution demonstrates in many ways. Additionally according to you 225 years is not outdated??

This is just an article to affirm and highlight my point of view is represented by others- https://www.hoover.org/research/our-outdated-constitution

Secondly. You stated the following and I responded "number of deaths so significant that it requires a huge and expensive and restrictive change in the us laws? Now.. I get that you want to play into the emotion of "if it saves one life" I also never stated that inequality in the treatment of others should be adopted you put those words in my mouth, to enhance you point of view. Unfortunate you have to employ this "tactic".

Thirdly. Of course completely eradicating is something that is very likely to be unattainable. But this is discerning practicality for morality. Quite simply resources are not the sole driver of stopping all crimes even firearm crimes, individuals, NGO's and the Governments voice play an important role. Zero is better morally than stating 10 deaths is an acceptable number. For you personally, without outside influences, what do you believe an acceptable number of deaths is?? I suggest you watch this...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHhiUv9hX-o

If we lived in a fantasy world everyone would be perfect, legislation would not exist, government would not exist and society would be structured very differently

To your next point. When did I state anything about billions?? It is not worth inflating such a figure because you dislike the concept of banning or strictly implementing gun policies. Additionally you tend to explore, intentionally, the issue with little depth and insight. It would actually attempt to alleviate the 33,000 deaths per year and the additional injuries sustained, save 5.5 billion in tax revenue (oh theres your billions you mentioned, being wasted in resources), 1.4 billion in Medicare, over 224 million insurance claims, reduce suicide rate, reduce impacts on families involved, reduce the abuse posed against woman (they are 500% more likely to be murdered if a gun is involved), reduce the 50% of unintentional fatal shootings were self-inflicted; and most unintentional firearm deaths were caused by friends or family members.

To your fifth point. I am simply stating the truth, something you quite simply dislike and thus negate. Additionally any argument pertaining to death is going to illustrate emotion, emotion emanating from the action rather than myself. I acknowledge your perceptions but why would I focus on them when I disagree with, for the ongoing reasons I have discussed.

Finally. Simply listing items is an emotional response. Lets just claim everything I state is emotional to enhance your premise. Well everything you state is vile.....does that achieve anything????Quite simply "no"

Gasoline is a poison of sorts but its primary purpose is to fuel cars and the like. Not inflict harm or cause death.
Knives primary purpose is not to be used as a weapon, that distinction must be drawn.
Alcohol is not a poison, if it were it would be killing millions per year. It is merely a drink in which induces drunkenness, and does not have the primary purpose of killing or inflicting damage

It does not take away from the fact that in general firearms primary purpose is to kill or inflict damage. So according to you because a citizen has a, lets say Glock 19 or Glock 22, that it was not designed to kill or inflict harm. But soon as a police officer has the exact same weapon it suddenly becomes a weapon that kills and inflict
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243, 2001]

"It does not take away from the fact that in general firearms primary purpose is to kill or inflict damage."

Unless a firearm is being used in a criminal offense, using it in hunting, target shooting or competition, whether any animal is killed or a target destroyed or damaged, doesn't matter one single bit.

The vast majority of a time when a firearm is used there is no criminal intent. In an even greater percentage, well approaching 100% of the time, when a legal firearm owner is using a firearm there is no criminal intent or negligence. Cars owners have almost no criminal intent with regards to killing others, yet they still kill more people each year than are killed by someone deliberately using a gun to cause damage. Alcohol, a known poison, has almost no restrictions on purpose and according to CDC kills almost 88,000 every year.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243, 2001]

Well the question is whether you COULD have removed the gun.

And yes. even if you removed the gun it might not have reduced the number of deaths. A truck with fertilizer was pretty effective.



Wow.. sorry,, but the firearm is an inanimate object.. it didn;t act of its own accord.



Well.. one is to get them the mental health that they need. Its not like it was a parent that saw all these warning signs and didn;t have the resources nor the desire to go get little timmy some help. This kid was a ward of the state. They obviously knew he had issues. Heck he got kicked out school.. which should have generated some evaluation. Not to mention the number of times that police were called.



How do you state that on one hand it needs to be addressed.. and then on the other that it didn;t limit the threat? that makes no sense.



Again.. that's merely opinion. What firearms were used in the Oklahoma city bombing?



not necessarily.

What about a bomb/? Or starting a fire and blocking the exits. Or running down 30 kids in a crowded area?

Firstly. Of course there is a "could" as there is with every single piece of legislation or ruling. There is this learned helplessness syndrome in the US, this notion that there is nothing firearms can do to solve this issue. Rather it is though practical experience that the true workings of legislation arise, something the US is yet to implement.

Secondly. Quite an implication you make. Lets just make it clear, through the stipulation of my wording. I stated "use" which means that someone has acted with (using) a firearm, how is this inanimate??

To your third point.
1. Cruz was living with a supportive family, a family friend, for months leading up to the incident. The chances of gaining that "mental health" they need is slim, with them having already committed the crime before reaching that point.
2. Never stated the FBI was not too blame nor was diminishing or excusing their lack of foresight or intelligence. However nothing/very little can be done about the actions of the FBI but so much can be done about the actions with firearms.

To your next point. I denied one aspect of mental health, being foster care and support. I see this as an inadequacy and quite a restrictive mechanism that is failing its purpose. Hence the reason I termed it as "addressed", meaning it needs to be further looked at or altered.

To your fifth point. Valid point. But you can look at it this way. Bombs are illegal in the USA with the uses of such weapons not universal....thus the banning or stricter legislation of firearms would either lead individuals to bombs or such weapons as knives. I think that common sense and logic and example from a range of countries can assert that a knife would be employed by these average criminals and legal gun owners committing such crimes over a bomb. However irrationality can be applied in this context.

How many bomb attacks have there been in the USA?? Additionally you must look into the mechanism that they are being carried out with. A truck is essential to our existence and daily lives the employment of such in an attack has, not to my knowledge, happened in the USA. I am not familiar nor can find any cases of the fire and blocking exits happening either (another reason alarm bells, water systems and fire-proof blankets are in place) Thus you are also simply relying on a stretched theory, that could happen, however if we continued to alert to all these theories no action will ever be taken.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243, 2001]

I really don't care. we have the second amendment and foreigners have no say in its existence.

I can simply put my point forth, not have a say in its existence. I also love how you come back with the same point every single time and bash foreigners but have nothing constructive to state about my opinion nor put forth any solutions.
 
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