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Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243, 2001]

re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243]

I was hoping to hear some actual defenses of assault rifle ownership, but all I heard was "You can't ask us anything! It's in the BoR!", like that settles the issue.

For the record, I'm fine with people owning AR-15's and whatnot. I'm even fine with people owning automatic weapons, so long as the meet the legal standards as defined by the ATF regulations.

But this guys contempt for Americans that want sensible gun laws, and to discuss the liability each class of firearm poses, is what will lead to the 2A getting wiped out eventually.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243]

MovingPictures said:
I was hoping to hear some actual defenses of assault rifle ownership, but all I heard was "You can't ask us anything! It's in the BoR!", like that settles the issue.

For the record, I'm fine with people owning AR-15's and whatnot. I'm even fine with people owning automatic weapons, so long as the meet the legal standards as defined by the ATF regulations.

But this guys contempt for Americans that want sensible gun laws, and to discuss the liability each class of firearm poses, is what will lead to the 2A getting wiped out eventually.
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Then you should watch the entire video.


Can you cite an example of that contempt?
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243]

MovingPictures said:
I was hoping to hear some actual defenses of assault rifle ownership, but all I heard was "You can't ask us anything! It's in the BoR!", like that settles the issue.

For the record, I'm fine with people owning AR-15's and whatnot. I'm even fine with people owning automatic weapons, so long as the meet the legal standards as defined by the ATF regulations.

But this guys contempt for Americans that want sensible gun laws, and to discuss the liability each class of firearm poses, is what will lead to the 2A getting wiped out eventually.
Click to expand...

An AR-15 is not an assault rifle. An assault rifle is a gun in which you can flip a switch to go from one shot per pull of the trigger to multiple shots per pull of the trigger.

And I have yet to hear of one single "sensible gun law" that is actually proven to do what is claimed that they will do.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243]

Slingshot Bob said:
Then you should watch the entire video.


Can you cite an example of that contempt?
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Seriously? Take your own advise and watch the video yourself, the guy is seething with contempt because people ask the sensible question of what the average citizen needs weapons like an AR-15 for.

I'm not going to give you a transcript of the video.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243]

Kal'Stang said:
An AR-15 is not an assault rifle. An assault rifle is a gun in which you can flip a switch to go from one shot per pull of the trigger to multiple shots per pull of the trigger. ]
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The latter would be a machine gun.

And I have yet to hear of one single "sensible gun law" that is actually proven to do what is claimed that they will do.
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Proven? What do you count as proof? I've yet to see any evidence whatsoever that gun ownership is having any effect on violent crime levels. In fact, the stats tend to go the other way around.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243]

MovingPictures said:
Seriously? Take your own advise and watch the video yourself, the guy is seething with contempt because people ask the sensible question of what the average citizen needs weapons like an AR-15 for.

I'm not going to give you a transcript of the video.
Click to expand...

I watched every second. If that was all you heard, YOU should watch it. In fact he never even said what you said was all you heard "You cant ask us anything"

Try listening to what he says, not what you WISH he said.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243]

Slingshot Bob said:
I watched every second. If that was all you heard, YOU should watch it.
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Just because I didn't come away with the impressions you did, that doesn't give you the right of way to start insinuating I didn't watch the video.

You're allowed to formulate your opinions on how gun control proponents come across, and I'm allowed to do the same in regard to gun right proponents.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243]

MovingPictures said:
The latter would be a machine gun.

Proven? What do you count as proof? I've yet to see any evidence whatsoever that gun ownership is having any effect on violent crime levels. In fact, the stats tend to go the other way around.
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It would be an assault rifle....
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243]

MovingPictures said:
The latter would be a machine gun.
Click to expand...

Correct. But your first sentence was in direct response to what was being talked about in the video. Which had nothing to do with machine guns. Ergo, you were talking about AR-15's when you said "assault rifle".

MovingPictures said:
Proven? What do you count as proof? I've yet to see any evidence whatsoever that gun ownership is having any effect on violent crime levels. In fact, the stats tend to go the other way around.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure you know what "proven" means. And its not our job to prove anything. It's your job to prove claims asserted by you.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243]

Kal'Stang said:
Correct. But your first sentence was in direct response to what was being talked about in the video. Which had nothing to do with machine guns. Ergo, you were talking about AR-15's when you said "assault rifle".
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Fine.

Pretty sure you know what "proven" means. And its not our job to prove anything. It's your job to prove claims asserted by you.
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No, it goes both ways. I have to support my arguments and you have to support yours, this is not a one way street. I'm not looking to go down the same rabbit hole on gun laws that we just went down a few day ago with you, as we're unlikely to do any better at finding common ground.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243]

MovingPictures said:
Just because I didn't come away with the impressions you did, that doesn't give you the right of way to start insinuating I didn't watch the video.

You're allowed to formulate your opinions on how gun control proponents come across, and I'm allowed to do the same in regard to gun right proponents.
Click to expand...

You are the one that stated, all you heard was something he never said. As to your first sentence, that was you implying I had not watched it, so...
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243]

Slingshot Bob said:
You are the one that stated, all you heard was something he never said. As to your first sentence, that was you implying I had not watched it, so...
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I said that the way he came across in the video was contemptuous of gun control proponents.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243]

Slingshot Bob said:
Again, how?
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He acted like it's unreasonable to even ask why people want AR-15's, and that people don't have the right to ask 'just because, 2A'.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243]

MovingPictures said:
He acted like it's unreasonable to even ask why people want AR-15's, and that people don't have the right to ask 'just because, 2A'.
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Even if that is how he came across, do you feel that you are somehow entitled to a response or he is in any way obligated to explain himself to you or anyone else?
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243]

MovingPictures said:
No, it goes both ways. I have to support my arguments and you have to support yours, this is not a one way street. I'm not looking to go down the same rabbit hole on gun laws that we just went down a few day ago with you, as we're unlikely to do any better at finding common ground.
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Actually no, it doesn't go both ways. When a claim is made the onus is upon the claimant to prove their claim. No one else has to prove anything. You stated that common sense gun laws are needed. Ok. Which common sense gun laws? Why? And prove that they will do what you want them to do. Once you do that then the onus will be upon others to either disprove what you have stated or concede. After that the onus is back on you. This continues until one or the other concedes. That is how debate works and, incidentally, how our court system works.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243]

BTW: figured this video is relevant to this discussion...

 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243]

Kal'Stang said:
Actually no, it doesn't go both ways. When a claim is made the onus is upon the claimant to prove their claim. No one else has to prove anything. You stated that common sense gun laws are needed. Ok. Which common sense gun laws? Why? And prove that they will do what you want them to do. Once you do that then the onus will be upon others to either disprove what you have stated or concede. After that the onus is back on you. This continues until one or the other concedes. That is how debate works and, incidentally, how our court system works.
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I get that you want to bait me into going down the rabbit hole with you again, but it's not going to work.

My last two exchanges with you were unpleasant and unproductive, so I'm not going to waste my time again.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243]

Polar Bum said:
Even if that is how he came across, do you feel that you are somehow entitled to a response or he is in any way obligated to explain himself to you or anyone else?
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He doesn't have to explain himself.

I also don't have to explain my reasoning for gun control, if I decide to vote for representatives that will change the laws either. It can go both ways.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243]

MovingPictures said:
I get that you want to bait me into going down the rabbit hole with you again, but it's not going to work.

My last two exchanges with you were unpleasant and unproductive, so I'm not going to waste my time again.
Click to expand...

If you don't want to be challenged or debate then why post about this subject?
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243]

MovingPictures said:
He doesn't have to explain himself.

I also don't have to explain my reasoning for gun control, if I decide to vote for representatives that will change the laws either. It can go both ways.
Click to expand...

Actually.....as it is a right, you need a pretty rational and logical reason to begin eroding it.

As a belief system, no....you don't have to explain it, and I really don't care about an individuals personal belief until they act on it in a way that is counter to the Constitution and the bill of rights, be they private citizens or public servants and politicians.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243]

Kal'Stang said:
If you don't want to be challenged or debate then why post about this subject?
Click to expand...
Not every thread that is related gun control has to derail into a conversation on the whole enchilada. It's too complex, and too tiring to do that every time somebody wants to go down that path.

Plus I just found arguing with you the last two times to be a fruitless exchange, that wasn't worth the energy.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243]

Polar Bum said:
Actually.....as it is a right, you need a pretty rational and logical reason to begin eroding it.

As a belief system, no....you don't have to explain it, and I really don't care about an individuals personal belief until they act on it in a way that is counter to the Constitution and the bill of rights, be they private citizens or public servants and politicians.
Click to expand...

I agree. What is their problem with freedom and the right to be free.

You would think we would be protecting the rights we have and fighting for more. I just don't get the reasoning behind restricting and the taking away of rights from people that have done nothing wrong. These people are sick and need mental help.
 
re: Why do you "need" an AR 15? [W243]

Polar Bum said:
Actually.....as it is a right, you need a pretty rational and logical reason to begin eroding it.

As a belief system, no....you don't have to explain it, and I really don't care about an individuals personal belief until they act on it in a way that is counter to the Constitution and the bill of rights, be they private citizens or public servants and politicians.
Click to expand...
I doubt very much there's anything I'm going to lay out logic wise that's going to change your mind, so I don't see the point in doing it 'just because'. All we'll do is waste each others time and energy.

What I do to act on my perspective in regards to gun ownership will be my democratic right to do so, and at the end of the day, I'll discriminate heavily on whom I believe is worth an attempt at persuasion to my line of reasoning, as opposed to arguing with every MF on the internet that wants to challenge me on the reasons as to why I believe what I believe.

Try not to take that personally.
 
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