Another gun banner lie.

Slingshot Bob · Feb 24, 2018

Another gun banner lie.
I hear all these Democrat talking heads, parroting the grass for the sheep. AR-15's (and similar) are weapons of war, no other reason.

I can think of 4 off the top of my head.

1. Very popular with hunters. Custom AR hunting platforms are the bread and butter of some gunsmiths, just google "AR 15 hunting".

2. Home defense (self explanatory).

3. Target practice. (no rights need be justified)

4. Collecters items (guns hold value over time)

How many AR's never see war or homicide?

#CounterThePropaganda

The second is under assault, look at the media saturation on this latest shooting.

danielpalos · Feb 24, 2018

We have a Second Amendment; we should have no security problems in our free States.

Mach · Feb 24, 2018

Slingshot Bob said:
Another gun banner lie. I hear all these Democrat talking heads, parroting the grass for the sheep. AR-15's (and similar) are weapons of war, no other reason..

It's a fact that the AR-15 is basically the semi-automatic version of the M-16, which was designed to kill people.

I have no doubt some hillbillies would make a game using a tank with live ammunition if they had routine access to them, what does that prove? (other than the obvious)
You'd then be yelling about how you love to play capture the flag using tanks.. it's so fun, it's legit? Maybe you can hunt with it too. Protect them rights too! Fight against Tyranny! The possibilities are ENDLESS!

ecofarm · Feb 24, 2018

It would be banning the only rifle we know. Military, police, other services, all rendered ignorant of rifle use. Is rendering a population ignorant of rifle use a good idea.

MovingPictures · Feb 24, 2018

Slingshot Bob said:
Another gun banner lie.
I hear all these Democrat talking heads, parroting the grass for the sheep. AR-15's (and similar) are weapons of war, no other reason.

I can think of 4 off the top of my head.

1. Very popular with hunters. Custom AR hunting platforms are the bread and butter of some gunsmiths, just google "AR 15 hunting".

2. Home defense (self explanatory).

3. Target practice. (no rights need be justified)

4. Collecters items (guns hold value over time)

How many AR's never see war or homicide?

#CounterThePropaganda

The second is under assault, look at the media saturation on this latest shooting.

Hunting with an AR-15? Geez, hunters have zero balls today. That's not hunting, that's killing.

Use bolt action, like a true sportsman.

Mach · Feb 24, 2018

ecofarm said:
It would be banning the only rifle we know. Military, police, other services, all rendered ignorant of rifle use. Is rendering a population ignorant of rifle use a good idea.

And our population use to only know a way of life that didn't let women vote, or work, or blacks vote, etc. It changed "the only way of life many knew", turned it upside down. Change happens, sorry eco.

I personally would be willing to jump through some serious hoops to get an AR-15 if I intended to use it lawfully, and have it tracked in a database, etc. These things would not prohibit me from owning and operating it, collect them, modifying them, etc., and I'd know why I had to be careful in obtain such a weapon. Getting a loan is is difficult and tracked and verified (well mostly), it's a process...and who died from a rogue "loan"? Can we not track and secure and have tests to ensure lawful gun owners can get weapons, but essentially no one else can?

But notice the discussion is never that nuanced, it's simply "no to any/all gun control measures". Isn't there even a memo/email sent to legislators saying just that from the gun lobby this past week? It's not a real discussion at that point, it's just fingers in the ears.

Black Dog · Feb 24, 2018

MovingPictures said:
Hunting with an AR-15? Geez, hunters have zero balls today. That's not hunting, that's killing.

Use bolt action, like a true sportsman.

You tell em! Because hunting an animal with a bolt action .308, 30 06 or hell let's go Africa! A 700 Nitro Express! Oh wait, I guess you have no idea about hunting or weapons. My bad.

Slingshot Bob · Feb 24, 2018

MovingPictures said:
Hunting with an AR-15? Geez, hunters have zero balls today. That's not hunting, that's killing.

Use bolt action, like a true sportsman.

You must think hunting is about "sport"? It is about using the most efficient tool to bring the animal to a quick end. People ignorant of hunting think the animal needs a "sporting" chance.

"translation" high probability of wounding game.

Black Dog · Feb 24, 2018

Mach said:
And our population use to only know a way of life that didn't let women vote, or work, or blacks vote, etc. It changed "the only way of life many knew", turned it upside down. Change happens, sorry eco.

I personally would be willing to jump through some serious hoops to get an AR-15 if I intended to use it lawfully, and have it tracked in a database, etc. These things would not prohibit me from owning and operating it, collect them, modifying them, etc., and I'd know why I had to be careful in obtain such a weapon. Getting a loan is is difficult and tracked and verified (well mostly), it's a process...and who died from a rogue "loan"? Can we not track and secure and have tests to ensure lawful gun owners can get weapons, but essentially no one else can?

But notice the discussion is never that nuanced, it's simply "no to any/all gun control measures". Isn't there even a memo/email sent to legislators saying just that from the gun lobby this past week? It's not a real discussion at that point, it's just fingers in the ears.

Until some loony toon commits the next mass shooting and now the government comes knocking on your door to take your lawful weapon. Don't say never, it has and is happening...

NY police seize veteran's guns after order deems him, wrongfully, as 'mentally defective' - NY police seize veteran's guns after order deems him, wrongfully, as 'mentally defective' | Fox News

A loan is not a right.

ecofarm · Feb 24, 2018

Mach said:
And our population use to only know a way of life that didn't let women vote, or work, or blacks vote, etc. It changed "the only way of life many knew", turned it upside down. Change happens, sorry eco.
.

In those cases, I'd support civil rights just as in this case. Self defense is a natural right and a population ignorant of rifle use isn't merely "change" it's poor judgement.

Mach · Feb 24, 2018

Black Dog said:
Until some loony toon commits the next mass shooting and now the government comes knocking on your door to take your lawful weapon. Don't say never, it has and is happening....

And yet that means you won't budge on any such criteria, not because the criteria is wrong, but because you're paranoid of things unrelated to such rules.

So you want no gun laws because of paranoia? I accept that you feel that way, but I reject it as a valid reason and argument.

KevinKohler · Feb 24, 2018

Mach said:
And our population use to only know a way of life that didn't let women vote, or work, or blacks vote, etc. It changed "the only way of life many knew", turned it upside down. Change happens, sorry eco.

I personally would be willing to jump through some serious hoops to get an AR-15 if I intended to use it lawfully, and have it tracked in a database, etc. These things would not prohibit me from owning and operating it, collect them, modifying them, etc., and I'd know why I had to be careful in obtain such a weapon. Getting a loan is is difficult and tracked and verified (well mostly), it's a process...and who died from a rogue "loan"? Can we not track and secure and have tests to ensure lawful gun owners can get weapons, but essentially no one else can?

But notice the discussion is never that nuanced, it's simply "no to any/all gun control measures". Isn't there even a memo/email sent to legislators saying just that from the gun lobby this past week? It's not a real discussion at that point, it's just fingers in the ears.

Well....loans DID crash the entire global economy, costing people their entire life's work worth of net worth.

Mach · Feb 24, 2018

ecofarm said:
it's poor judgement.

Why though, is the point. That you think such gun control is bad, is established. Saying "it's poor judgement" is just saying that a different way.

Since we have examples of populations that are ignorant of rifle use, are you saying there is evidence this has lead to substantial "bad things"? The UK is suffering directly as related to being ignorant of rifles?
I know it's part of your worldview and personal history and tradition perhaps, but I don't see how that's a national requirement for widespread, easily accessible firearms of nearly every variety.

Again, I jump through hoops today for all sorts of crap that I *don't even want or value*, and yet the idea that I wouldn't do it if I liked to tinker with and go to the range with an AR-15, seems absurd to me. You get your cake and eat it to....but everyone opposes it tooth and nail. You included, with a nebulous "it's poor judgement".

Grand Mal · Feb 24, 2018

Slingshot Bob said:
Another gun banner lie.
I hear all these Democrat talking heads, parroting the grass for the sheep. AR-15's (and similar) are weapons of war, no other reason.

I can think of 4 off the top of my head.

1. Very popular with hunters. Custom AR hunting platforms are the bread and butter of some gunsmiths, just google "AR 15 hunting".

2. Home defense (self explanatory).

3. Target practice. (no rights need be justified)

4. Collecters items (guns hold value over time)

How many AR's never see war or homicide?

#CounterThePropaganda

The second is under assault, look at the media saturation on this latest shooting.

Tell you what, Bob, if you ever meet me or one of my friends in the bush and you're packing one of those sexy-looking fashion statements, well, being Canadian we might not actually point and laugh but you'll definitly get grinned at. And called 'Rambo' behind your back.

Mach · Feb 24, 2018

KevinKohler said:
Well....loans DID crash the entire global economy, costing people their entire life's work worth of net worth.

I thought about that while typing it too. But the point is that you jump through hoops for financial crap (And a whole host of other things), surely we can do it for certain deadly weapons.
We spend hours every day doing everything from work to play to relationships on networks and phones, and yet it's all tracked by 100 different companies in 100 different ways...but minimal tracking of deadly weapons is a sacred cow? I just think it's nonsense.

Black Dog · Feb 24, 2018

Mach said:
And yet that means you won't budge on any such criteria, not because the criteria is wrong, but because you're paranoid of things unrelated to such rules.

No. it's because the criteria is wrong. Has nothing to do with "paranoia" I am not the one afraid of guns or gun laws. I do not want to give the government any more power over my life than they have, but thanks.

Mach said:
So you want no gun laws because of paranoia? I accept that you feel that way, but I reject it as a valid reason and argument.

Yea that's exactly what I said Mr. Straw man.

The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position.

This is why we can't have a conversation. I give you reasons and examples of why, and you resort to straw man arguments and hyperbole.

On second thought, no thanks.

ecofarm · Feb 24, 2018

Mach said:
Why though, is the point. That you think such gun control is bad, is established. Saying "it's poor judgement" is just saying that a different way.

I'm not saying gun control is poor judgement, you've now stacked my argument against anything whatsoever. Being against one thing is not being against everything. Banning the modern day rifle is poor judgement for a few reasons, one of which I've explained.

Black Dog · Feb 24, 2018

Grand Mal said:
Tell you what, Bob, if you ever meet me or one of my friends in the bush and you're packing one of those sexy-looking fashion statements, well, being Canadian we might not actually point and laugh but you'll definitly get grinned at. And called 'Rambo' behind your back.

Oh no! Not Canadians calling us Rambo! As if Canada does not have it's own image problems, lol.

Mach · Feb 24, 2018

Black Dog said:
No. it's because the criteria is wrong.

Vs

I do not want to give the government any more power over my life than they have, but thanks.

That's your words, not mine.

You say it's one thing, then you immediately confirm it's really just opposition to government (paranoia in the other post).

If you don't want any government power over your life, then there is no debate, because we have a government and we routinely create laws, and using the blanket "all government is bad", is too absurd to discuss.

Grand Mal · Feb 24, 2018

Black Dog said:
Oh no! Not Canadians calling us Rambo! As if Canada does not have it's own image problems, lol.

Us? No, I was talking to 'Slingshot Bob', and Canada's current image problems can be remedied in the next winter Olympics.

OlNate · Feb 24, 2018

Slingshot Bob said:
You must think hunting is about "sport"? It is about using the most efficient tool to bring the animal to a quick end. People ignorant of hunting think the animal needs a "sporting" chance.

"translation" high probability of wounding game.

Gotta second that, and props for a pretty clear explanation for someone who doesn't really get gun culture and usage, and doesn't have an axe to grind. While some people like to tell the story of the one that got away, because they were using some kind of sporting rifle, for other people that could represent a $1000 increase in their grocery bill, if not more when the cost of an unsuccessful hunt is factored in. And that's for maybe one or two unsuccessful tags, depending on what you're after.

I don't think it takes away from the importance of somehow solving the issue of kids getting killed with them in classrooms, but that solution can only be found by taking into consideration what is important to both sides of the gun control debate. If the goal is to get rid of AR-15's, then there is far more justification to getting rid of handguns, which account for a vast majority of gun deaths in the states. Next on the list are shotguns. There's far more to solving the issue of why people are inclined to walk into public places to commit mass murder than picking a particular brand of gun to ban, and washing your hands of it.

I haven't seen any solutions put forward that will solve that from either side of the debate, frankly, and that's because everyone is too busy pointing fingers and trying to be right. We need to talk to each other and understand the problem before we knee jerk into yet another "solution" that ends in more dead kids.

MovingPictures · Feb 24, 2018

Black Dog said:
You tell em! Because hunting an animal with a bolt action .308, 30 06 or hell let's go Africa! A 700 Nitro Express! Oh wait, I guess you have no idea about hunting or weapons. My bad.

Actually, I've shot many guns in my life. 30 06 is what the guys my family hunted with, and the laugh at people using AR-15's and M16's.

Black Dog · Feb 24, 2018

Mach said:
Vs

That's your words, not mine.

Yes it is, so what?

Mach said:
You say it's one thing, then you immediately confirm it's really just opposition to government (paranoia in the other post).

This is exactly what I mean. Instead of actually seeing and understanding what I am saying, you apply your own bull**** interpretation that has nothing to do with my statement. Not wanting more governmental control has nothing to do with paranoia and everything to do with being in charge of my own affairs. Don't need the government to micro manage every aspect of my life, I can do it. So please tell me what that has to do with "paranoia???"

Mach said:
If you don't want any government power over your life, then there is no debate, because we have a government and we routinely create laws, and using the blanket "all government is bad", is too absurd to discuss.

Please feel free to point out where I said I don't want any government control (laws) over my life? I said no such thing. Again with the exaggerations and lies about my statements. This is what makes discussing this topic absurd. :roll:

Black Dog · Feb 24, 2018

Grand Mal said:
Us? No, I was talking to 'Slingshot Bob', and Canada's current image problems can be remedied in the next winter Olympics.

I meant US not us. You mean like the curling and female hockey team losses to the US? hehehe.

MovingPictures · Feb 24, 2018

Slingshot Bob said:
You must think hunting is about "sport"? It is about using the most efficient tool to bring the animal to a quick end. People ignorant of hunting think the animal needs a "sporting" chance.

Yeah, hunting is a sport, most of the guys I know that hunt will say that. If you're just killing something to prove that you can kill something, then you might as well use landmines and Tommy guns to get the job done. If you're hunting for the sake of sport, you should be using a weapon that doesn't enhance what is an already massive advantage for the hunter.

"translation" high probability of wounding game.

Very few hunters are capable of clean shots where I come from (Texas), perhaps things are different where you come from.

Another gun banner lie.

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