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The revealing truth about gun supporters

Bucky said:
I believe this latest gun shooting exposed the radical ideology of those in the NRA and the radical gun zealots.

These people live in some sort of alternate reality thinking we are still in the late 18th or early 19th century. They are dinosaurs the same way supporters of the Confederacy were.

First off, I find it disgusting and morbid why anyone would find it acceptable to attack grieving kids and family members who suffered tremendous loss. IMO it is akin to how blacks were treated 100 years ago. Secondly, it is incredibly stupid. You do realize these 15, 16, and 17 years old will be able to vote soon?

If you have noticed something, the NRA and gun zealots do actually provide solutions, however, every single solution supports gun manufacturers.

Stupid solutions: Let's arm the teachers:
* If these shooters are buying and using AR-15s, what good is a handgun going to do?
*Who is going to train these teachers? Are they going to wear kevlar vests?
*I can go and on and on however this solution is essentially saying our schools are so unsafe, we feel the need to arm teachers (imagine your 60-70-year-old first grade teachers with guns).

State/local solutions don't work without federal backing!

It is somewhat pointless to have strict gun laws in one city if the neighboring city has lenient gun laws. Imagine for example if half the states allowed for slavery and the other half abolished it. That just wouldn't work. If the minimum age to buy a long gun is 21 in Illinois yet you can buy those same guns in Indiana or Kentucky at age 18, those state and local laws won't have the same bite.

We need to blame the mentally ill people and bad guys!

Every country has mentally ill people and bad guys. Believe it or not, people in the United States are not more or less prone to commit a crime than the majority of other countries.

The children in the UK and France are watching the same violent movies/TV shows. They are listening to same violence music. Every school has bully's. This isn't some cultural shift. It's the guns!

The revealing truth about gun supporters and the NRA is this: They don't have the trust of the American people. They back gun manufacturers before everyday people. They are negligent and responsible for the mass shootings in this country. Blaming bad guys and the mentally ill for these killings would be like blaming smokers for getting lung cancer. Certainly, the cigarette companies have some culpability in the matter - that's why cigarettes have become highly regulated.

The NRA and gun zealots can continue to bash victims and kids. Go ahead. Those victims and kids will grow up and remember your hatred. They will vote you of office, dismantle your organization, and end you.

When those kids are 30-50, you gun zealots will be frail and bedridden unable to grab your guns. You will not be able to do a damn thing but watch old westerns and eat jello.
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A hand gun typically is at least as powerful as a AR15 clone. At indoor distances it's the better choice.

If the problem is people buying weapons outside their locality, it would follow that those areas with easiest access would be the danger zones. That's not the case. It's the areas with the most restrictive laws that have the largest problem. Indiana should have a larger problem than Chicago. They don't.

I for one don't put much credence in the video game concept. I grew up playing cops and robbers and cowboys and Indians. We had no school shootings. Mental health certainly plays a part, but we also had crazy people. A few killed people. Whitman and Starkweather for two. I doubt if we will ever be able to identify killers before the fact. We might someday be able to identify certain indicators but even then only one out of a thousand might actually do the deed.
 
Bucky said:
Teachers teach to educate students. Now it is a good idea to train them to kill the same students they are trying to educate?



Police officers guard home of deputy assigned to Florida HS who ?never went in? during shooting: report | Fox News

It is just a bad idea. If you have a police officer too cowardly to use his firearm, what makes you think a teacher would be able to a) use that firearm and b) use it effectively?

Arming teachers with anything but books and rulers is just plain crazy.
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I hope the truth comes out as to why this officer didn't respond. But I don't think it will.

I think they...the Sheriff and the ex-Deputy...will determine that it's better to say he was a coward than to say he spent time assessing the political ramifications of the situation.

In any case, I'm thinking that coach who gave up his life for his students would have had more courage than that Deputy. Too bad he wasn't armed.
 
Bucky said:
People like DANA LOESCH argue for the shooting and killing of anyone that protests. I refuse to compromise with a lunatic like that.

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She doesn't talk about shooting and killing anybody in the video. And as far as her being a lunatic, well she's certainly much smarter than you.
 
Bucky said:
I don't advocate kids drinking at age 18. It was tought being a kid. A lot of emotions, hormones, etc... They in way should be able to buy an assault weapon.
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I never said anything about 18 year olds being able to drink alcohol, that is a different discussion, but as far as "assault weapons" are concerned there is no such thing. It is a term created by the extreme liberal left to further their cause. If you're saying 18 year olds should not be able to buy semi automatic weapons why not? At 18 you can be drafted and at 18 you can sign up to serve so therefore at 18 you should be able to buy any gun you can buy at 21 including semi automatic rifles and handguns. Some people will say that you should also be able to buy alcohol and tobacco at 18 but in the military you're not required to use alcohol and tobacco but you are required to use guns so that is why the age to buy guns should be 18.
 
Mycroft said:
I hope the truth comes out as to why this officer didn't respond. But I don't think it will.

I think they...the Sheriff and the ex-Deputy...will determine that it's better to say he was a coward than to say he spent time assessing the political ramifications of the situation.

In any case, I'm thinking that coach who gave up his life for his students would have had more courage than that Deputy. Too bad he wasn't armed.
Click to expand...

A police officer who is assigned to a school should not wait around for 4 minutes outside the building while gunshots are being fired in a school full of students and staff. They should call/ radio the department stating active shooter in building , to send backup, then immidatly enter the building and try to stop the gunman. Lives may have been saved if he did what he hired to do.
 
minnie616 said:
A police officer who is assigned to a school should not wait around for 4 minutes outside the building while gunshots are being fired in a school full of students and staff. They should call/ radio the department stating active shooter in building , to send backup, then immidatly enter the building and try to stop the gunman. Lives may have been saved if he did what he hired to do.
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Exactly. That officer is a complete disgrace. I don't know what the punishment for cowardice is in the police department but supposedly in the Army you will be shot by your own troops if you run the other way.
 
MACS-24 said:
:doh That's your counter? Simpsons?
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Ted Cruz used this video/episode and called the Democrats the party of Lisa Simpson and the Republicans the party of Homer Simpson.

I am not sure if Ted Cruz was serious however comparing the Republicans to Homer Simpson is not a compliment.

 
DebateChallenge said:
Exactly. That officer is a complete disgrace. I don't know what the punishment for cowardice is in the police department but supposedly in the Army you will be shot by your own troops if you run the other way.
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So perhaps this silly theory that more armed trained professionals does not prevent mass shootings/gun violence.

I go to the bank for example. I rarely see any armed officials. The sight of seeing an armed guard would probably deter me from going to the bank.

Remember, kids, don't have a choice on the school they attend. In that sense, they are similar to slaves. Kids have the right to feel safe in the school they attend. I completely understand the frustration of the students. If you do not feel safe at your work, you can file a complaint or go to another job. These kids are sitting ducks.
 
Mycroft said:
I hope the truth comes out as to why this officer didn't respond. But I don't think it will.

I think they...the Sheriff and the ex-Deputy...will determine that it's better to say he was a coward than to say he spent time assessing the political ramifications of the situation.

In any case, I'm thinking that coach who gave up his life for his students would have had more courage than that Deputy. Too bad he wasn't armed.
Click to expand...

just saying the kid is a coward is wrong imo

ever been in a battle zone? had bullets flying around? different people react differently

i was scared to death when it was my turn....i did my job, but thought more than once about curling up in a fetal position

that is why the military trains in units...not everyone will run headlong into a firefight....it takes a very special type of person

i dont want to condone what this individual did, but to auto label him a coward which is what the internet is doing...i cant imagine what he is going through now....

most people will NEVER be in that situation....for those of us who have, i bet most understand what he did....not condone it, but understand it

and i hope he gets some counseling to help him through what will be some sleepless nights that will last the rest of his life
 
gdgyva said:
just saying the kid is a coward is wrong imo

ever been in a battle zone? had bullets flying around? different people react differently

i was scared to death when it was my turn....i did my job, but thought more than once about curling up in a fetal position

that is why the military trains in units...not everyone will run headlong into a firefight....it takes a very special type of person

i dont want to condone what this individual did, but to auto label him a coward which is what the internet is doing...i cant imagine what he is going through now....

most people will NEVER be in that situation....for those of us who have, i bet most understand what he did....not condone it, but understand it

and i hope he gets some counseling to help him through what will be some sleepless nights that will last the rest of his life
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This 'kid' was a 33 year veteran of the Broward County's Sheriffs Office.
 
holbritter said:
This 'kid' was a 33 year veteran of the Broward County's Sheriffs Office.
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ok

who probably had never been in or near a gun battle before

i realize that not all will agree with my assessment....

it is the old "walk in my shoes" example

very few will ever have to actually walk in HIS shoes....just show a little compassion....that is all i am asking
 
Kal'Stang said:
Yeah, when I'm old and frail and unable to grab my gun guess what....my kids will be able to. And I'll teach them that Rights are worth dying for. Because without Rights, you're just a slave. You can be a slave if you wish. I will not, and I'll make sure that my kids do not want to be either.
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Very profound: just ignore the whole thing and make a blanket denial statement.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Radical gun zealots. You just blew your entire spiel with that word.
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No, it's a fair description of a radical faction that you belong to.
 
Kal'Stang said:
If you wish to be hyperbolic then so can I. Make a serious argument and I'll give a serious answer.
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He did make a serious argument Kal, you just can't hack. Think about it all in context, given the issue and then present your intellectual counter argument that proves Bucky's thesis wrong.
 
blackjack50 said:
Kill the NRA! Down with the NRA! Blame the NRA! Not the shooter! It isn’t the shooter who committed this act! It was the NRA! The NRA IS TO BLAME! Down with the NRA! We should NOT address our failing mental health care or the FACT that these shooters are known to be dangers to others! That would be foolish to look at this because other nations have free access to socialized medicine that allows for easier access to care over longer periods of time! It can’t be that! It is the NRA! And it has no bearing that the NRA IS A MAJOR REPUBLICAN CAMPAIGN DONOR! Kill the NRA!
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But unions are bad - right?
 
Oborosen said:
That's a lot of grandstanding, with very little substance... not surprised in the least.
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Well then, present your counter argument that proves him wrong.
 
gdgyva said:
ok

who probably had never been in or near a gun battle before

i realize that not all will agree with my assessment....

it is the old "walk in my shoes" example

very few will ever have to actually walk in HIS shoes....just show a little compassion....that is all i am asking
Click to expand...

Police officers who are paid to protect a HIgh Shool should have been trained what to do if there is an active shooter in the school. He accepted the job, he was paid to the protect the students in the school and then he stood outside the school while 14 students and 3 school staff members were killed. It makes me feel sick inside.
 
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Bucky said:
I believe this latest gun shooting exposed the radical ideology of those in the NRA and the radical gun zealots.

These people live in some sort of alternate reality thinking we are still in the late 18th or early 19th century. They are dinosaurs the same way supporters of the Confederacy were.

First off, I find it disgusting and morbid why anyone would find it acceptable to attack grieving kids and family members who suffered tremendous loss. IMO it is akin to how blacks were treated 100 years ago. Secondly, it is incredibly stupid. You do realize these 15, 16, and 17 years old will be able to vote soon?

If you have noticed something, the NRA and gun zealots do actually provide solutions, however, every single solution supports gun manufacturers.

Stupid solutions: Let's arm the teachers:
* If these shooters are buying and using AR-15s, what good is a handgun going to do?
*Who is going to train these teachers? Are they going to wear kevlar vests?
*I can go and on and on however this solution is essentially saying our schools are so unsafe, we feel the need to arm teachers (imagine your 60-70-year-old first grade teachers with guns).

State/local solutions don't work without federal backing!

It is somewhat pointless to have strict gun laws in one city if the neighboring city has lenient gun laws. Imagine for example if half the states allowed for slavery and the other half abolished it. That just wouldn't work. If the minimum age to buy a long gun is 21 in Illinois yet you can buy those same guns in Indiana or Kentucky at age 18, those state and local laws won't have the same bite.

We need to blame the mentally ill people and bad guys!

Every country has mentally ill people and bad guys. Believe it or not, people in the United States are not more or less prone to commit a crime than the majority of other countries.

The children in the UK and France are watching the same violent movies/TV shows. They are listening to same violence music. Every school has bully's. This isn't some cultural shift. It's the guns!

The revealing truth about gun supporters and the NRA is this: They don't have the trust of the American people. They back gun manufacturers before everyday people. They are negligent and responsible for the mass shootings in this country. Blaming bad guys and the mentally ill for these killings would be like blaming smokers for getting lung cancer. Certainly, the cigarette companies have some culpability in the matter - that's why cigarettes have become highly regulated.

The NRA and gun zealots can continue to bash victims and kids. Go ahead. Those victims and kids will grow up and remember your hatred. They will vote you of office, dismantle your organization, and end you.

When those kids are 30-50, you gun zealots will be frail and bedridden unable to grab your guns. You will not be able to do a damn thing but watch old westerns and eat jello.
Click to expand...
It's in the bill of rights. I think, if the NRA wants to be useful, they'll endorse the right to a gun as an international human right.
 
minnie616 said:
Police officers who are paid to protect a HIgh Shool should have been trained what to do if there is an active shooter in the school. He accepted the job, he was paid to the protect the students in the school and then he stood outside the school while 14 students and 3 school staff members were killed. It makes me feel sick inside.
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Minnie

He accepted the job...and he received pay to protect those kids

that he failed in that aspect of the job makes me sad for everyone involved...he may have saved lives...he never tried, and he will have to live with that decision the rest of his life

Not condoning his action at all....just realize he isnt the first person to freeze going into something like that....it happens in combat....it happens on the street in shootouts....it happens, period.

and not sure what kind of training could prepare someone for that action....hell, i was barely prepared and i went through boot camp, and additional training and we had live fire training....hard to imagine it until you experience it
 
jet57 said:
He did make a serious argument Kal, you just can't hack. Think about it all in context, given the issue and then present your intellectual counter argument that proves Bucky's thesis wrong.
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Oh yeah suuuuree. He made a serious argument alright....not.

"radical gun zealots" ~ Yeah, that's a good way to get your readers to listen to you..insult them and call them names.

"I find it disgusting and morbid why anyone would find it acceptable to attack grieving kids and family members who suffered tremendous loss." ~ This assumes that the vast majority of gun owners think the same thing that a very select few did/do. It's a broad brush stroke that does nothing but baselessly attacks people.

"IMO it is akin to how blacks were treated 100 years ago." Seriously? This is supposed to be taken seriously? Obviously said by someone that wasn't around 100 years ago or studied a bit of history. Blacks were beaten to death or near to death or literally hung from a tree simply for looking at a white person "wrong" and you two want us to find his statement as a "serious argument"? Pfft.

"Stupid solutions" ~ Thousands of police officers have guns for protection every day. Thousands of politicians have armed guards protecting them every day. Thousands of celebrities have armed guards protecting them every day. Yet some how, some way, for some ODD reason its "stupid" to have armed people protecting our children. Pfft.

"It's the guns!" ~ He refuses to blame the killer. Blaming an inanimate object that can't do crap on its own. No one can take anyone that blames an inanimate object seriously.

No. He did not make a serious argument. He made a complete and utter waste of a space thread. He did not offer any solutions. All he did was blame guns and those that like guns for the actions of individuals that in no way shape or form represent the VAST VAST majority of gun owners in the US.

That you agree with him does not mean that he made a serious argument. Which makes any argument that you make in defense of it stupid also.
 
jet57 said:
Very profound: just ignore the whole thing and make a blanket denial statement.
Click to expand...

Said while ignoring the blanket statements of the OP. Good way to show people what partisan hack posts looks like Jet. :good_job:
 
gdgyva said:
Minnie

He accepted the job...and he received pay to protect those kids

that he failed in that aspect of the job makes me sad for everyone involved...he may have saved lives...he never tried, and he will have to live with that decision the rest of his life

Not condoning his action at all....just realize he isnt the first person to freeze going into something like that....it happens in combat....it happens on the street in shootouts....it happens, period.

and not sure what kind of training could prepare someone for that action....hell, i was barely prepared and i went through boot camp, and additional training and we had live fire training....hard to imagine it until you experience it
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying. I’m not calling him a coward. I don’t know if got any special training but if he was going to assigned to protect a high school they should have trained him to prepare in case of a school shooting. I don’t know why he did not enter the building and my educated guess is he froze and yes, he will have to live with the decision.

That is why I agree that teachers are at school to teach , not to carry guns to protect students from a school shooter.
 
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gdgyva said:
just saying the kid is a coward is wrong imo

ever been in a battle zone? had bullets flying around? different people react differently

i was scared to death when it was my turn....i did my job, but thought more than once about curling up in a fetal position

that is why the military trains in units...not everyone will run headlong into a firefight....it takes a very special type of person

i dont want to condone what this individual did, but to auto label him a coward which is what the internet is doing...i cant imagine what he is going through now....

most people will NEVER be in that situation....for those of us who have, i bet most understand what he did....not condone it, but understand it

and i hope he gets some counseling to help him through what will be some sleepless nights that will last the rest of his life
Click to expand...

Then that "kid" (I know you've been corrected on this mistake of yours) didn't deserve to be a deputy.

He doesn't need counseling. He need condemnation. He is a black stain on the reputation of all of the law enforcement people who WOULD have run in there. (think about the heroes of 9/11)

In any case, I don't think he was a coward. I think he made a conscious decision not to protect those students. I think his decision was based on politics. I think his decision was based on the policies put in place by the school board and by his boss...the County Sheriff.
 
gdgyva said:
that is why the military trains in units...not everyone will run headlong into a firefight....it takes a very special type of person
Click to expand...

And if you don't you will be shot by your own troops. So you can choose to either run headlong and risk death or run the other way and face certain death.
 
Bucky said:
I believe this latest gun shooting exposed the radical ideology of those in the NRA and the radical gun zealots.

These people live in some sort of alternate reality thinking we are still in the late 18th or early 19th century. They are dinosaurs the same way supporters of the Confederacy were.

First off, I find it disgusting and morbid why anyone would find it acceptable to attack grieving kids and family members who suffered tremendous loss. IMO it is akin to how blacks were treated 100 years ago. Secondly, it is incredibly stupid. You do realize these 15, 16, and 17 years old will be able to vote soon?

If you have noticed something, the NRA and gun zealots do actually provide solutions, however, every single solution supports gun manufacturers.

Stupid solutions: Let's arm the teachers:
* If these shooters are buying and using AR-15s, what good is a handgun going to do?
*Who is going to train these teachers? Are they going to wear kevlar vests?
*I can go and on and on however this solution is essentially saying our schools are so unsafe, we feel the need to arm teachers (imagine your 60-70-year-old first grade teachers with guns).

State/local solutions don't work without federal backing!

It is somewhat pointless to have strict gun laws in one city if the neighboring city has lenient gun laws. Imagine for example if half the states allowed for slavery and the other half abolished it. That just wouldn't work. If the minimum age to buy a long gun is 21 in Illinois yet you can buy those same guns in Indiana or Kentucky at age 18, those state and local laws won't have the same bite.

We need to blame the mentally ill people and bad guys!

Every country has mentally ill people and bad guys. Believe it or not, people in the United States are not more or less prone to commit a crime than the majority of other countries.

The children in the UK and France are watching the same violent movies/TV shows. They are listening to same violence music. Every school has bully's. This isn't some cultural shift. It's the guns!

The revealing truth about gun supporters and the NRA is this: They don't have the trust of the American people. They back gun manufacturers before everyday people. They are negligent and responsible for the mass shootings in this country. Blaming bad guys and the mentally ill for these killings would be like blaming smokers for getting lung cancer. Certainly, the cigarette companies have some culpability in the matter - that's why cigarettes have become highly regulated.

The NRA and gun zealots can continue to bash victims and kids. Go ahead. Those victims and kids will grow up and remember your hatred. They will vote you of office, dismantle your organization, and end you.

When those kids are 30-50, you gun zealots will be frail and bedridden unable to grab your guns. You will not be able to do a damn thing but watch old westerns and eat jello.
Click to expand...
I love that you think states can do nothing without a big federal govt. to back them.
 
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