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The kids are taking a stand!

Pawnstar101 said:
If we don't stand up for gun rights who will be there to stand up for our religious rights? If we start setting precedents to take away one amendment when does it stop? are we just going to assume that all people are good and would never take away more and more rights when given a chance? When people get into positions of power they will abuse it over and over again. So imagine a completely disarmed country and now who will prevent our freedoms including freedom of speech and right to not be illegally searched from being stripped? The day our country starts to get away with limiting freedom is going to be the start of a long list of freedoms being taken away and oppression from the people in power. We need to stand together and support the entire constitution... not just the pieces that we like otherwise we may end up with no constitution at all.
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We gotta look at the bigger picture as stated in the above quote
 
Grand Mal said:
Rush Limbaugh is willing to negotiate the constitution.
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Ok genius let’s go throw ideas on the table!
1. Gun control (Can’t use)

2. What else


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MateoMtnClimber said:
I don't think that's an apt correlation. It might be, but we have clear evidence that the higher the rate of gun ownership, the higher the suicide rate. We also know that Japan has a higher suicide rate than the US does and fewer guns. I think the social causes of suicide are the most important factor, but the prevalence of guns also has something to do with it.
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We know that in the US, the non-firearm suicide rate is growing at a fast rate than the firearm suicide rate. We know that since 1999 the gun suicide rate has grown 12.75%. The non-firearm homicide rate has grown 48%. The number of deaths for gun and non-gun suicides is at parity.

Hanging/suffocation suicides has grown 88% for almost 12,000 deaths per year.

https://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate.html
 
TheRepublican said:
Ok genius let’s go throw ideas on the table!
1. Gun control (Can’t use)

2. What else


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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What are we talking about, Einstein? Negotiating the constitution? Limbaugh said he'd go along with making the DREAMERS citizens if they couldn't vote for 25 years. Nice, huh?
Or are you talking about the mass killing/school massacre thing? Well, one guy here had a idea that sounded like a band-aid at least, armed security and armed teachers on a voluntary basis. Doesn't address the problem but might keep the problem out of the schools anyway. Any attempt to address the problem (mental health, armed crazies, and why your society produces so many psycho killers) always seems to run up against the constitution, like hitting a brick wall.
 
jet57 said:
Nope; assault weapons are going away.
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maybe from cowardly Californian sheeple who bend over and squeal "Thank you sir, May I have another" every time the assholes in office trample on their rights. Not here in Ohio or other states that don't buy into the cowardly idea that the way to stop criminals is to punish and restrict the law abiding.
 
trouble13 said:
There is no gun legislation possible that would stop people from killing each other.

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Oh don't be silly! someone who has no worries about doing 500 years in a southern prison or facing 17 death sentences will clearly be afraid of the prison sentence he would get from owning a banned rifle!
 
I thought we were talking about United States dreamers that died not immigrants


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MateoMtnClimber said:
The students win the argument about their purpose. Their opponents say they are grandstanding. They say they are advocating for positive social change. Their stated intentions matter more than false intentions that their detractors assign them for purposes of discrediting their actions. Erego, they win that argument.
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I disagree, at least for myself, because I have not attacked them for taking their stand, I just think they are wrong and their that their agenda will not bring about the safety they think they would get. So, No, I am not willing to compromise with them because they have openy stated that their goal is to infringe n my Rights for their false sense of security, is what it is.
 
NIMBY said:
The NRA stopped being for Americans with the Cincinnati rebellion in the 1970's ...
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The NRA lobbies and educates people with regard to the Second Amendment right. This is a right that every American citizen has so unless you're not an American citizen the NRA is for you.

There was no riots in Cincinnati and the 70s there were some in the 60s and there was one in 2001 there hasn't been a rebellion since the Civil War so I have no idea what you're talking about
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
Generalized and meaningless statements like, "Kids are brainwashed," do not constitute an argument.

Who are the Rainbow People who you have mentioned multiple times? Is that a reference to the Rainbow Family of Living Light?
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Why did you accuse me of supporting absolutely no restrictions on gun ownership and then ignore me when I said I support restrictions I even wrote a list.


I thought you said you wanted a discussion. If all you can do is pigeonhole people that don't agree with you you do not want that discussion.

So which is it can you handle talking to someone who's reasonable that may not I agree with you totally?

I personally would be delighted to have an honest discussion with someone who doesn't agree with me. At times I think that can be you.
 
CLAX1911 said:
The NRA lobbies and educates people with regard to the Second Amendment right. This is a right that every American citizen has so unless you're not an American citizen the NRA is for you.

There was no riots in Cincinnati and the 70s there were some in the 60s and there was one in 2001 there hasn't been a rebellion since the Civil War so I have no idea what you're talking about
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That's not true, is it. The law disqualifies lots of people for gun ownership. If it's available to some but not others, it's a privilege, not a right. If you need permission, a nod from the government, it's a privilege, not a right.
 
Grand Mal said:
That's not true, is it. The law disqualifies lots of people for gun ownership. If it's available to some but not others, it's a privilege, not a right. If you need permission, a nod from the government, it's a privilege, not a right.
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Every citizen has that right. Some disqualify themselves.
 
Grand Mal said:
That's not true, is it. The law disqualifies lots of people for gun ownership. If it's available to some but not others, it's a privilege, not a right. If you need permission, a nod from the government, it's a privilege, not a right.
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You don't need permission from the government.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
What does that mean?
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Since 1998 there have been 39 school age (K-12) children killed in a mass shooting at school by someone with an "assault weapon". Since 1998, there have been 22,176 high school age children killed as occupants in a motor vehicle accident.
 
CLAX1911 said:
You don't need permission from the government.
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What's the background check about? It's the government deciding whether you can buy that gun.
 
Rucker61 said:
Every citizen has that right. Some disqualify themselves.
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Word play.
The government has a list of things that disqualify you from buying a gun. That means they can add to the list as they see fit. I referred elsewhere to the punchline of an old joke, "We've already decided what you are. Now we're just negotiating the price."
 
these gun hating kids are on CBS right now--they want to ban automatic weapons, all semi automatic weapons and when asked if people have any right to own any guns, they said no, saying they have a right to live. Sorry silly kids, your emotobabbling doesn't get a pass because you claim you are traumatized.
 
Bucky said:
Survivors Of The Florida School Shooting Organize D.C. March



These high school kids understand more about gun violence and the dangerous element within the NRA than the Harvard-educated gun supporters.

Those like Ted Cruz and Rick Scott are on the losing side of this issue. At this point, they are too scared to even discuss the subject.

IMO cowardly. When communities are being killed and shot up, they won't tolerate the NRA bs anymore.
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Full article: https://www.yahoo.com/sports/missouri-youth-baseball-team-holds-ar-15-raffle-parkland-shooting-162151355.html

Headline:

Missouri youth baseball team holds AR-15 raffle after Parkland shooting
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From body of article:

According to the Kansas City Star, a traveling youth baseball team in Missouri has continued to sell raffle tickets for an AR-15 despite another 17 victims being gunned down by one in last week’s shooting at Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla. The father of one player, a co-founder of weapons dealer Black Rain Ordnance in Neosho, Mo., reportedly provided the gun for a fundraiser.
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Patterson told the Kansas City Star that he “will not force one of our boys (ages 7 to 9) to sell raffle tickets” for the rifle “if they are uncomfortable doing so.” While the school district is not affiliated with the raffle, Neosho’s South Elementary School principal Lee Woodward reportedly posted the contest to her Facebook page hours after the Parkland shooting and urged followers to support the team.
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I think it was atheist Richard Dawkins that coined the term "meme." A meme is supposed to be a cultural replica, culturally function, like a gene--and in Dawkin's mind genes try to survive and are more important than human persons, genes only use dumb humans (I think as he put it) as a vehicle to their survival.

I don't share Dawkin's gene-centric view. That said, I always thought the "meme" concept was an interesting idea that may bare a lot of truth. Memes are basically ideas that spread (and survive) by being passed on from one person to the next. Eventually they may form a prevailing thought construct within a society.

So, I hypothesize the AR-15 use for mass shootings has become an American meme. And if you got rid of the AR-15 another meme for mass killings (a different kind of firearm, or say cars or trucks, or bombs) would replace it in American society. Yeah, yeah... the Aussie's ban I know. The Aussies also culturally enjoy heterosexual men wearing speedo brief or male bikinis briefs of other brands. Most Americans have the meme in their pea brains that such beach or swim wear on men are only for homosexual men. So, we are dealing with different cultures.
 
eohrnberger said:
Too bad that all they are doing is parroting the left's political lines and positions, so they won't garner any more a solution or any more a constructive discussion than what has come before on those basis.

This position of "you’re either with us or against us" isn't going to lead to more solutions or constructive discussion, and in fact actually hinders them.

Also noted as false is the assumption that just because someone experienced those circumstances that they somehow have more expertise than people who have made careers in researching and studying these issues.

While I'm glad that these kids are going to be taking an active participation role in politics and public policy, I think they need to learn a lot more before taking this active participation role.
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Agreed. While I like the idea of school kids taking an active part in government, to succeed, their goals need to be based on intelligent solutions, not emotional rants for gun control. Congress and the president cannot fix the problem of school shootings. That is going to have to happen largely on the state and local level. Law enforcement and healthcare professionals must report the mentally ill, especially those with violent tendencies to the national database used for background checks. That would have prevented the Parkland shooter from passing a background check. Going after AR15s is not the answer.
 
Bucky said:
Especially when right-wing losers like Tomi Lahren thing guns aren't the issue.
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Using your logic, perhaps we should ban fertilizer. Timothy McVeigh killed roughly 166 people including children in a Daycare Center with a homemade fertilizer bomb.
 
TurtleDude said:
these gun hating kids are on CBS right now--they want to ban automatic weapons, all semi automatic weapons and when asked if people have any right to own any guns, they said no, saying they have a right to live. Sorry silly kids, your emotobabbling doesn't get a pass because you claim you are traumatized.
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Their emotobabbling is fine, if that's what they want to, or need to, do. But it has no place in public policy, nor serious public policy discussions, I'll agree with you there.
 
Bucky said:
I completely disagree.

The brainless twits exist in the NRA who keep saying crap like people kill people guns don't people.

One of the most idiotic arguments I hear is, "I don't care if more guns lead to higher suicides. You killing yourself has no bearing on my life."

Again, completely misguided. Do they realize these shooters kill other people before they commit suicide?
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I have never know an inanimate object such as a gun to pick itself up, point itself and shoot anyone. The gun is not the issue. The mentally ill people that get their hands on them are the issue.
 
Vox said:
Being a survivor of a massacre does not make you an expert on ANY complex issue when you're 15 years old.

They are urban children...... ignorant and brainwashed by the Rainbow People and their Media.
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Let me make one personal point so that you know my perspective even if you don't understand or appreciate it. I was two weeks away from my sixteenth birthday when I survived a high school gun massacre. I've read enough of your posts to know that you cannot be trusted with too much of my personal experience and feelings, but I will say that even if I wasn't an expert then on mass violence and still am not an expert today, when you say that they, we, and I were brainwashed by "Rainbow People", you drive a wedge between us so deeply that it makes it almost impossible for us ever to work as partners to solve a problem that takes and destroys lives. I'm asking you nicely to please tone down your attacks and intentional flaming, at least when you're speaking to me directly. I'll debate fairly, but I won't be insulted and attacked in such incendiary ways by a stranger on the internet.
 
ObamacareFail said:
Agreed. While I like the idea of school kids taking an active part in government, to succeed, their goals need to be based on intelligent solutions, not emotional rants for gun control. Congress and the president cannot fix the problem of school shootings. That is going to have to happen largely on the state and local level. Law enforcement and healthcare professionals must report the mentally ill, especially those with violent tendencies to the national database used for background checks. That would have prevented the Parkland shooter from passing a background check. Going after AR15s is not the answer.
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Agreed.

Going after the tool isn't going to make a difference. Humans are adaptable, and will choose another tool.
We we stem from, after all, Homo habilis (the tool maker).
 
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