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What could the FBI done had they received a tip on Cruz?

Kal'Stang said:
Conviction implies that a crime happened. Your question implies that one must have a criminal conviction to be judged mentally unstable or to be considered as a danger to society. That is wrong. As I've already shown you via link to a CNN article.
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So after the 72 hour hold, how long do you think they could/would detain him and remove him from society?
 
Vetplus40 said:
Trump couldn't be more wrong. He is the same guy who "praised" the FBI after the Weiner emails surfaced. Trump is simply an opportunist.

Now, back to the OP.
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LOL! He praised them correctly and he also criticizes them correctly.

I notice you don't comment on the FBI failure to stop the Muslim 9-11 terrorists when they were notified in plenty of time to do so.
 
Vetplus40 said:
My "question" implied nothing of the sort. This discussion is NOT about mental health.

That said, you haven't "shown me anything" related to my OP. You are simply "dancing" and trying to factor in an argument about mental health or mental stability. None of which fall with in the purview of the FBI. The FBI is a law enforcement/investigative agency. They are not mental health professionals.

Now, getting back on topic: Provide me the statute that shows where the FBI could have locked up Cruz based on a tip that they received (had protocol been followed) or handcuffed him for any other LEGAL reason. Thus guaranteeing that he would not have committed this crime.
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Straight from the title of your thread here: What could the FBI done had they received a tip on Cruz?

So yes, when the FBI could have had Cruz mentally evaluated which due to his history would have shown a mental instability verging on being a danger to himself and those around him which would have gotten Cruz's guns taken away and him possibly committed then this thread very much is about mental health. That you now want to ignore the question you posed does not invalidate the fact that I answered your question.
 
Vox said:
...

Face it.....Trump is right about the FBI.
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He was right about the FBI missing the signals because "they are spending too much time trying to prove Russian collusion with the Trump campaign"?
 
Paperview said:
He was right about the FBI missing the signals because "they are spending too much time trying to prove Russian collusion with the Trump campaign"?
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It's hard not to take into consideration the time wasted on a baseless political investigation that has been proven to be totally without merit, yes.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Exactly, and yet he was able to legally purchase a powerful weapon. How insane is that?

But, rather than bash law enforcement, local or not, why not use this example as a lesson and see if future mass shootings can be prevented? Nothing can change the past, but the future can be made better.
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Yep, but who other than Floriduh law enforcement and/or school "officials" was in a position to take legal action? My point is simply that local LEOs blew this "nut case" many, many times so (their?) attempts at blaming "others" is pure BS. When the Governor of Floriduh praises the local LEOs and school "officials", who totally blew it, as heroes while shifting blame to the federal government - that is not part of the solution that is leaving the problem intact and simply shifting the blame. How can 2 "blown" contacts (tips?) to the FBI be the "real solution" to the problem when the local LEOs and school "officials" had 39 or more prior in person contacts?
 
Paperview said:
So after the 72 hour hold, how long do you think they could/would detain him and remove him from society?
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I'm not a mental health expert so do not know how long they could have held him. But from what I do know, how long they held him would have depended on the recommendation of the mental health professional. I do know that based on his history they could have held him for longer than the requisite 72 hours. That alone would have barred him from getting any gun legally and it would have authorized law enforcement to take his currently owned guns away.
 
I heard the sheriff of that county speak (on NPR). He said the FBI might have put enough of a scare in the kid (telling him they would watch him, etc.) to scare him off from doing anything. He said he would track if any of his deputies had messed up, because his department had also received complaints against the guy.
 
Paperview said:
He was right about the FBI missing the signals because "they are spending too much time trying to prove Russian collusion with the Trump campaign"?
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I thought that Muellers team was already assembled? AFAIK the people in the FBI field office in Florida are not involved in Mueller's investigation.
 
Kal'Stang said:
I'm not a mental health expert so do not know how long they could have held him. But from what I do know, how long they held him would have depended on the recommendation of the mental health professional.
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Look up the Baker Act. 72 hours.

Do you know how hard it is to get someone involuntarily committed where they lose their liberty? Without having committed a crime? Without a jury?

You better think about the unconstitutional sword you are dancing on lest you fall on the wrong side of it, along with millions of others.

I do know that based on his history they could have held him for longer than the requisite 72 hours.
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No. You do not know that.

That alone would have barred him from getting any gun
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He's out in 72 hours.
legally...
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Roll that around for a bit.
 
Vox said:
LOL! He praised them correctly and he also criticizes them correctly.

I notice you don't comment on the FBI failure to stop the Muslim 9-11 terrorists when they were notified in plenty of time to do so.
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Trump both compliments and criticizes the FBI when it suits his "self serving" agenda.
I did not comment on the Muslim 9-11 topic because it ISN"T the topic of this thread. If you wish for such a discussion, start your own.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Straight from the title of your thread here: What could the FBI done had they received a tip on Cruz?

Dude, I have already explained the "truncated" title of the OP due to available space. Geez.............:(

I abbreviated the OP title and fully explained the TOPIC with the text that followed. For your benefit, in the future I will go ahead and FULLY spell out that which is "understood" by most. Now, does that satisfy you?
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Vetplus40 said:
This is a very emotional subject to say the least. I dare say few if any on DP have ever personally experienced anything close to it. I have had two of these occur near where I live and I can tell you that the impacts are lasting.

That being said, while there is certainly a level of justifiable anger aimed towards the FBI because information about Cruz did not reach the Miami Field Office, I think that they may be a bit of emotionally based misunderstanding that such a tip WOULD have prevented this tragedy from occurring.

Yes, the FBI would have questioned Cruz as a result of this tip, and yes such questioning MIGHT have deterred him, but it may not have either. However, there is no provision that I am aware of that would have allowed the FBI to simply knock on Cruz's door and handcuff him as a result of this tip. As I understand it, he had no outstanding "wants or warrants" and he LEGALLY purchased his weapons. As such, he would have been guilty of NOTHING at the time he would have been questioned as a result of this tip.

This post is not intended to start a "flame war" on guns, so please don't take it there. My main issue is that while the FBI deserves some criticism for their procedural error of some sort (yet to be determined), I am not convinced that they are to blame either.

Other may have a different take and I am certainly interested in hearing what other "logical" and "respectable" opinions others have on the subject.
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It's my opinion that the FBI "dropped the ball" in this matter. Hindsight has shown postings by Cruz that were alarming. A gun check could have been completed quickly. Simple failures.
/
 
DaveFagan said:
It's my opinion that the FBI "dropped the ball" in this matter. Hindsight has shown postings by Cruz that were alarming. A gun check could have been completed quickly. Simple failures.
/
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He bought the gun legally.

He can go right out and buy another without any background check.
 
Vetplus40 said:
Exactly. The sheer volume of tips received is likely overwhelming at times. Sadly, the issue is going to be "politicized" on two fronts. First, on gun control. Secondly, the Trump supporters will try and tie it to their "Anti-FBI" crusade that has more to do with trying to protect Trump than it does at looking at the tragedy itself.
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i don't know. i think most of us have respect for the FBI that will endure the current political madness. call me hopeful Helix. i've been called worse.
 
Paperview said:
He bought the gun legally.

He can go right out and buy another without any background check.
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Actually, he can't. He has bought his last gun.
 
Rosie1 said:
I heard the sheriff of that county speak (on NPR). He said the FBI might have put enough of a scare in the kid (telling him they would watch him, etc.) to scare him off from doing anything. He said he would track if any of his deputies had messed up, because his department had also received complaints against the guy.
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Thanks for that additional information. The two things that jump out at me is if any law enforcement pressure would have been a deterrent? Also, he certainly didn't want to go down in a "blaze of gunfire", but he really seemed to have no logical "escape plan" either. Obviously, he put significant planning into the execution of his shooting, so it was not a "spur of the moment" decision. Yet, the manner of his capture is odd to say the least.
 
Helix said:
i don't know. i think most of us have respect for the FBI that will endure the current political madness. call me hopeful Helix. i've been called worse.
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As I have noted previously, the FBI had an official report from their Minneapolis office that Muslims were taking flight training in a suspicious manner and the FBI FAILED to act on that report.......thus failing to stop the 9-11 terrorist attack.

Trump should fire the entire top level of leadership and restructure.
 
Vox said:
And he did.
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I asked this question:

quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Paperview
He was right about the FBI missing the signals because "they are spending too much time trying to prove Russian collusion with the Trump campaign"?

Could you point out where you did?
 
Vetplus40 said:
This is a very emotional subject to say the least. I dare say few if any on DP have ever personally experienced anything close to it. I have had two of these occur near where I live and I can tell you that the impacts are lasting.

That being said, while there is certainly a level of justifiable anger aimed towards the FBI because information about Cruz did not reach the Miami Field Office, I think that they may be a bit of emotionally based misunderstanding that such a tip WOULD have prevented this tragedy from occurring.

Yes, the FBI would have questioned Cruz as a result of this tip, and yes such questioning MIGHT have deterred him, but it may not have either. However, there is no provision that I am aware of that would have allowed the FBI to simply knock on Cruz's door and handcuff him as a result of this tip. As I understand it, he had no outstanding "wants or warrants" and he LEGALLY purchased his weapons. As such, he would have been guilty of NOTHING at the time he would have been questioned as a result of this tip.

This post is not intended to start a "flame war" on guns, so please don't take it there. My main issue is that while
the FBI deserves some criticism
Click to expand...
 for their procedural error of some sort (yet to be determined), I am not convinced that they are to blame either.

Other may have a different take and I am certainly interested in hearing what other "logical" and "respectable" opinions others have on the subject.
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The FBI totally failed in this case-they were tipped off about this guy and did nothing until the shooting stopped.

If the FBI had warned the local police they could have been watching him,eh?

17 dead people could still be alive today.
 
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Vox said:
It's hard not to take into consideration the time wasted on a baseless political investigation that has been proven to be totally without merit, yes.
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More ridiculous "political" comments. Do you honestly believe that the ENTIRE FBI is working on the Russian case?..........LMAO

We now return to the OP.
 
Paperview said:
I asked this question:

quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Paperview
He was right about the FBI missing the signals because "they are spending too much time trying to prove Russian collusion with the Trump campaign"?

Could you point out where you did?
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I just did.
 
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