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School Shooter was a "Legal Gun Owner"

calamity said:
Bottom line--it's time to vote out the NRA whores.
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Yeah, about the NRA...

One saying we always hear after every gun related massacre is the saying "The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

When I hear this I think, "That sounds like a guy trying to sell two guns." So I wondered who first came up with this saying, and the furthest back I was able to find it was by the NRA in 2003.

https://www.scoopnest.com/user/Simon_Cullen/613720698381574145

When I narrowed the search parameters to before that date, I got this quote by Charlton Heston, 5-time president of the NRA:

"Let me make a short, opening, blanket comment. There are no "good guns". There are no "bad guns". Any gun in the hands of a bad man is a bad thing. Any gun in the hands of a decent person is no threat to anybody — except bad people."

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Charlton_Heston

That may have been the genesis for the now common saying.

The National Rifle Association is merely a lobby for the gun industry, so when I thought "That sounds like a guy trying to sell two guns," and if it's true that the saying came from the NRA, then I was dead on.

This Is How The Gun Industry Funds The NRA - BI
 
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jimbo said:
It's true. You're cherry picking your numbers to fit your agenda.
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What's true is you don't know the meaning of "cherry picking." Did you just pick a logical fallacy out of a hat or something?
 
Cardinal said:
What's true is you don't know the meaning of "cherry picking." Did you just pick a logical fallacy out of a hat or something?
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Well we do know that You know the meaning of Cherry Picking.
 
Casper said:
So tell us, how many of those murders were done by legal gun owners............
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Cardinal is playing fast and loose with the terrorist numbers also. But I let that one slide.
 
Casper said:
Well we do know that You know the meaning of Cherry Picking.
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I'm certain the families of the 210,000 people murdered using firearms since 1995 will be comforted by your wrong use of the term "cherry picking."
 
jimbo said:
Cardinal is playing fast and loose with the terrorist numbers also. But I let that one slide.
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Nope! All of my numbers were thoroughly researched using databases going back as far as they were first made public on the internet, which is 1995.

So going back to 1995, the number of deaths from domestic terrorism is about 3300*, and the death toll from murders using firearms is about 210,000.**
https://www.start.umd.edu/pubs/START_AmericanTerrorismDeaths_FactSheet_Oct2015.pdf
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....able_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls


*Does not take into account 2015-2017, so this number will be a little higher by now.
**This figure doesn't take into account 2017 since it hasn't been tabulated yet, but if the trend is steady then this figure will be at about 220,000 by now.
 
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Cardinal said:
Yeah, about the NRA...

One saying we always hear after every gun related massacre is the saying "The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

When I hear this I think, "That sounds like a guy trying to sell two guns." So I wondered who first came up with this saying, and the furthest back I was able to find it was by the NRA in 2003.

https://www.scoopnest.com/user/Simon_Cullen/613720698381574145

When I narrowed the search parameters to before that date, I got this quote by Charlton Heston, 5-time president of the NRA:

"Let me make a short, opening, blanket comment. There are no "good guns". There are no "bad guns". Any gun in the hands of a bad man is a bad thing. Any gun in the hands of a decent person is no threat to anybody — except bad people."

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Charlton_Heston

That may have been the genesis for the now common saying.

The National Rifle Association is merely a lobby for the gun industry, so when I thought "That sounds like a guy trying to sell two guns," and if it's true that the saying came from the NRA, then I was dead on.

This Is How The Gun Industry Funds The NRA - BI
Click to expand...

I learned something today. I'm a life member for 65 years. I thought the NRA did a number of things. Safety and marksmanship training. Distributing surplus weapons, lobbying for gun advocates. Now I find out they are nothing more than a manufacturers lobbyist.

Wonder if I can get my $35 back.
 
calamity said:
So much for the moronic argument made here repeatedly that legal gun owners are not violent offenders.



Of course, most of us know that the argument about legal gun owners is just another gun zealot lie. But, I thought I'd remind everyone about that fact.
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He was also a "legal" psychotropic drug user whom the government schools welcomed to your child's "safe place"

Government schools are the most dangerous places on Earth, so why do you send your kids to them???

It would be safer to send them out to play with live hand grenades.
 
jimbo said:
I learned something today. I'm a life member for 65 years. I thought the NRA did a number of things. Safety and marksmanship training. Distributing surplus weapons, lobbying for gun advocates. Now I find out they are nothing more than a manufacturers lobbyist.

Wonder if I can get my $35 back.
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This is the benefit of participating in a debate forum. You temporarily exit your bubble and are confronted with information that challenges your reality. This happens to me on a regular basis as well. If I didn't participate on this forum, there would be a large number of erroneous things I would still consider to be true.
 
Cardinal said:
What's true is you don't know the meaning of "cherry picking." Did you just pick a logical fallacy out of a hat or something?
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I did not. I'm just a dumb redneck southern good 'ol boy conservative. I don't know what a logical fallacy is.

Some kind of chawin' terbaccy maybe?
 
jimbo said:
I learned something today. I'm a life member for 65 years. I thought the NRA did a number of things. Safety and marksmanship training. Distributing surplus weapons, lobbying for gun advocates. Now I find out they are nothing more than a manufacturers lobbyist.

Wonder if I can get my $35 back.
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I call BS on you.

I dare you to prove me wrong.

Take a photo of your NRA membership card laying in the palm of your hand and post it here. You can cover your name with your finger or a piece of tape.

I am forever grateful to the NRA for teaching me the habits of safe gun handling at age 12 in my middle school.

 
SirGareth said:
I call BS on you.

I dare you to prove me wrong.

Take a photo of your NRA membership card laying in the palm of your hand and post it here. You can cover your name with your finger or a piece of tape.

I am forever grateful to the NRA for teaching me the habits of safe gun handling at age 12 in my middle school.

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Jesus Christ, cut it out with the alternate text. You're just making everybody's eyes bleed.
 
calamity said:
So much for the moronic argument made here repeatedly that legal gun owners are not violent offenders.



Of course, most of us know that the argument about legal gun owners is just another gun zealot lie. But, I thought I'd remind everyone about that fact.
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Um after his first shot in the school he ceased to be a legal gun owner.
 
SirGareth said:
I call BS on you.

I dare you to prove me wrong.

Take a photo of your NRA membership card laying in the palm of your hand and post it here. You can cover your name with your finger or a piece of tape.

I am forever grateful to the NRA for teaching me the habits of safe gun handling at age 12 in my middle school.

Click to expand...

I haven't had a membership card for as long as I can remember. I'm 80 tomorrow. Don't carry a SS card either. But I draw it. I took NRA sponsored gun safety and marksmanship training at about 8 or 9. Don't have those medals either, or my military awards.
 
SirGareth said:
He was also a "legal" psychotropic drug user whom the government schools welcomed to your child's "safe place"

Government schools are the most dangerous places on Earth, so why do you send your kids to them???

It would be safer to send them out to play with live hand grenades.
Click to expand...

That is hands down the most ignorant statement I have read since joining this board ( provided I missed the sarcasm) and that is quit an accomplishment...
 
Cardinal said:
I'm certain the families of the 210,000 people murdered using firearms since 1995 will be comforted by your wrong use of the term "cherry picking."
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I am sure they do not need your brand of cherry picking to push your agenda. But then again, you do not care.
 
Casper said:
I am sure they do not need your brand of cherry picking to push your agenda. But then again, you do not care.
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Nice straw man, as well as appeal to authority and appeal to majority logical fallacies.
 
Cardinal said:
Nope! All of my numbers were thoroughly researched using databases going back as far as they were first made public on the internet, which is 1995.

So going back to 1995, the number of deaths from domestic terrorism is about 3300*, and the death toll from murders using firearms is about 210,000.**
https://www.start.umd.edu/pubs/START_AmericanTerrorismDeaths_FactSheet_Oct2015.pdf
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....able_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls


*Does not take into account 2015-2017, so this number will be a little higher by now.
**This figure doesn't take into account 2017 since it hasn't been tabulated yet, but if the trend is steady then this figure will be at about 220,000 by now.
Click to expand...

The number of deaths from terrorism in a 4 hour period in '11 was 3300. That's my point. I get that you modified terrorist.
 
Cardinal said:
Nice straw man, as well as appeal to authority and appeal to majority logical fallacies.
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I am only pointing out your own fallacy when it comes to the numbers and as you said you do not care, no need for you continue to prove it, people can decide for themselves what is the whole truth verses the half truth (another form of a Lie)
 
Cardinal said:
Jesus Christ, cut it out with the alternate text. You're just making everybody's eyes bleed.
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It shows you have a good argument if you annoy people.
 
Casper said:
I am only pointing out your own fallacy when it comes to the numbers and as you said you do not care, no need for you continue to prove it, people can decide for themselves what is the whole truth verses the half truth (another form of a Lie)
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Now you've made the logical fallacies of affirmative conclusion from a negative premise, fallacy of exclusive premises, and fallacy of four terms.
 
jimbo said:
The number of deaths from terrorism in a 4 hour period in '11 was 3300. That's my point. I get that you modified terrorist.
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The number of deaths during 9/11 was 2996, to be exact. Yes, 9/11 had a way of influencing the average, but I did nothing to minimize its significance by reducing it to a mere average influencer, like you just did. You just shot your position in the foot, because there is no single event that causes a dramatic change in the average of firearm-related murders. ~9000 deaths a year is normal.
 
calamity said:
So much for the moronic argument made here repeatedly that legal gun owners are not violent offenders.



Of course, most of us know that the argument about legal gun owners is just another gun zealot lie. But, I thought I'd remind everyone about that fact.
Click to expand...

And its safe to say the person carrying them out were criminals?

Should the single act of owning a gun make someone a criminal?
 
Cardinal said:
Now you've made the logical fallacies of affirmative conclusion from a negative premise, fallacy of exclusive premises, and fallacy of four terms.
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Nice dance moves there.............
 
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