• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Realistic Gun Control Options

celticwar17 said:
Well... one... you are probably going to get a massive number of black people in jail in Chicago if that is enforced more...

And Chicago has pretty strict gun laws teetering on being Unconstitutional, so it seems a lot of these dismissed cases might technically be violations under Chicago law, but technicalities that might bring a lawsuit against the state.
Click to expand...

Are there lots of black people committing crimes in Chicago?
 
Kreton said:
Not that I disagree, because I don't, but how does that help stop them from committing the crime to begin with?
Click to expand...

it doesnt

nothing will stop someone who really wants to commit a crime....nothing

means, motive, opportunity....that is all that is needed

but having to warehouse criminals for 20 years while appeal after appeal is heard is ridiculous...and costs the state a LOT of money

we can give them one appeal....and these will have to go to the head of the line over other appeals

and then we execute....
 
Kreton said:
Possession of an illegal firearm should not ignored. And if it disproportionately targets minorities then so be it. As long as they are not prosecuting minorities while ignoring whites then it is fine. Just because minorities are more likely to break a law doesn't make the law racist or unjust (if that statement is even true).
Click to expand...

OK, then why so few prosecutions of convicted felons for illegal gun possession? My assertion is that these "simple possession" offenses are seen as victimless or non-violent crimes. You can't have it both ways - you either lock up convicted felons for existing gun law violations or continue to suffer the consequences.
 
Grand Mal said:
Re. your last link- I didn't open it (no Daily Caller for me) but I bet Obama NEVER prosecuted illegal gun buys. What a stupid headline.
Click to expand...

not unless he wanted Eric Holder prosecuted.
 
ataraxia said:
No. You've been watching too much Fox News.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politi...regulate-gun-silencers-with-gops-help-w506755

No civilian has any business owning semi-autos either.
Click to expand...

Why not? They're the most common type of firearm. Most rifles are semi-auto, most every pistol that isn't a revolver is semi-auto. They're also the most effective for defense.

What do you have against semi-autos? Would you have every gun be pump/lever action? Perhaps you, like most anti-2A types, know not what you seek to ban.
 
Spartacus FPV said:
Why not? They're the most common type of firearm.
Click to expand...

In no other civilized country in the world except the United States. And all those other countries have lower crime rates, and no daily massacres.

Most rifles are semi-auto, most every pistol that isn't a revolver is semi-auto. They're also the most effective for defense.
Click to expand...

semi-auto handgun with a few small caliber bullets would be OK. But no one needs an AR-15. You need it for defense against what? An army? Please.
 
celticwar17 said:
I really don''t think it's a gun control issue.

It's a modern culture issue. We have created an environment where social, cultural and societal pressure is extremely weaker than it ever has been before... which before kept these sort of people in line.

Fully automatic weapons were legal until the 80s... and we didn't have this issue.

This is going to sound bogus.... but this REALLY is the cost of a Liberal culture.... it invites chaos, instead of order. I'm not saying that our culture becoming more Liberal is a Net bad thing, of course... could very well be a Net good.... but this is the cost. The lack of order and structure in our lives... lack of societal expectations, and doing the right thing. And that there is even objectively such a thing as good and bad. I bet this Individual is quite Nihilistic. Our Modern Technology exacerbates all of this... people have access to all kinds of thinking ALL the time. They are not in a structured and protected environment of discipline, we are exposed to all the good and evil in the world at the push of a button at an extremely young age.
Click to expand...

If that's true in the US, that 'liberal culture' leads to chaos, why hasn't it happened in all those other very liberal countries? Some of them are so peaceful and orderly it nearly seems impossible compared to anywhere in the US, liberal OR coservative.
 
gdgyva said:
it doesnt

nothing will stop someone who really wants to commit a crime....nothing

means, motive, opportunity....that is all that is needed

but having to warehouse criminals for 20 years while appeal after appeal is heard is ridiculous...and costs the state a LOT of money

we can give them one appeal....and these will have to go to the head of the line over other appeals

and then we execute....
Click to expand...

I agree, thats just not what I am talking about here. Our appeal process is ridiculous.

I disagree with you on the "nothing will stop someone who really wants to commit a crime....nothing". Especially when it comes to mass shootings. Granted some are just blood thirsty maniacs but the majority of shooters appear to have evolved over time and there were signs and actions that possibly could have been picked up.
 
ataraxia said:
In no other civilized country in the world besides the United States. And all those other countries have lower crime rates, and no daily massacres.
Click to expand...

We don't have daily massacres either, these countries may have less gun violence but they do not have lower crime rates.

In fact, MOST of our gun crimes are in a few counties, its not a national problem. So long as you avoid liberal gun controlled cities, and aren't suicidal, you're much safer here than ANY other country.

ataraxia said:
semi-auto handgun with a few small caliber bullets would be OK. But no one needs an AR-15. You need it for defense against what? An army? Please.
Click to expand...

Who said I needed one? What does need have anything to do with it?

In a free country, must a person need a thing in order to own it?

As for your limit to "a few small caliber bullets", hell no. Have you used a firearm in self defense? I have, so if not then who the **** are you to presume to tell anyone what they need for defense?
 
ataraxia said:
In no other civilized country in the world except the United States. And all those other countries have lower crime rates, and no daily massacres.



semi-auto handgun with a few small caliber bullets would be OK. But no one needs an AR-15. You need it for defense against what? An army? Please.
Click to expand...

Do you even know what you are talking about? :confused:
 
Grand Mal said:
If that's true in the US, that 'liberal culture' leads to chaos, why hasn't it happened in all those other very liberal countries? Some of them are so peaceful and orderly it nearly seems impossible compared to anywhere in the US, liberal OR coservative.
Click to expand...

I think they have a more stable culture in Europe, and it's more homogeneous(More people who follow said culture). I think it will start to change... as it has been already , after mass migration of people with very different values. Rapes and violent crime are up significantly.

You also assume Europe is even more liberal than the USA.... and I actually don't think that is necessarily the case... their politics might fancy American Liberals more... but that's just because Europe is more authoritarian in some ways to implement their changes and more of a class based society than America is.
 
Last edited:
AR-15-image.jpg
 
Kreton said:
I agree, thats just not what I am talking about here. Our appeal process is ridiculous.

I disagree with you on the "nothing will stop someone who really wants to commit a crime....nothing". Especially when it comes to mass shootings. Granted some are just blood thirsty maniacs but the majority of shooters appear to have evolved over time and there were signs and actions that possibly could have been picked up.
Click to expand...

there isnt a law you can put on the books to change whether or not a crime will be committed imo

you can identify people with emotional issues, and make it harder for them to acquire weapons of mass destruction....but maybe instead of a gun, they use a ryder truck and run down 20-30 people....

part of the issue is the complete lack of funding we have now for mental health in the states...there are virtually no places to warehouse these people...or so few beds that the capacity is maxxed, and there is no room

we need to add a BUNCH of money in this area....and start looking at kids at 12 years and older who show a propensity for violence

i hate to say it, but i also think the number of video games and types that kids have grown up with in the last 25-35 years have a lot to do with their attitude towards death and killing...just my opinion of course...and probably not a popular one
 
Spartacus FPV said:
We don't have daily massacres either, these countries may have less gun violence but they do not have lower crime rates.
Click to expand...

This is the 19th school shooting in the United States since the start of 2018. That's 19 shootings in less than two months. So maybe then you got me: we get massacres only every other day. I stand corrected. But this doesn't happen anywhere else on the entire planet.



Who said I needed one? What does need have anything to do with it?

In a free country, must a person need a thing in order to own it?
Click to expand...

It's a free county. But no, you still can't own a tank with live ammo or a live nuclear ordnance. I am so sorry for such oppression by those darned fascist liberals. You poor thing you. But I am sure you will find a way to live without those things and carry on.

As for your limit to "a few small caliber bullets", hell no.
Click to expand...

Why not? If it's defense you want, you will have it. It's clear defense is not your concern. So stop trying to make it sound like you care about the functionality of the weapon. You just want a big weapon to impress your friends. It's OK. Daily massacres in our country are not worth it. I am sure you will find a way to carry on with your life without it. Get a big car or something to impress your friends instead.
 
ataraxia said:
It's a free county. But no, you still can't own a tank with live ammo or a live nuclear ordnance. I am so sorry for such oppression by those darned fascist liberals. You poor thing you. But I am sure you will find a way to live without those things and carry on.
Click to expand...

When did I ask for live ordnance? They are not protected by the 2A. Sorry that I do not resemble your straw man.

ataraxia said:
Why not? If it's defense you want, you will have it. It's clear defense is not your concern. So stop trying to make it sound like you care about the functionality of the weapon. You just want a big weapon to impress your friends. It's OK. Daily massacres in our country are not worth it. I am sure you will find a way to carry on with your life without it. Get a big car or something to impress your friends instead.
Click to expand...

A few rounds, 3 rounds, is not enough against multiple assailants; to me its not even enough for one. The fact that you would limit the law abiding to this, is why we won't give you another inch.

I don't just, "just want a big weapon to impress your friends", most of my guns are 22LR, one of the smallest caliber. Sorry again that I do not resemble the straw man you have constructed. That is not my reasoning for supporting liberty and the 2A, the fact that I have used my own firearm in home defense does.

Some people actually give a **** about liberty, and are disgusted that you would stand on the graves of children in order to justify your emotional appeals to attack our rights, while trying to paint us as the heartless ones.
 
If we look at this problem from only one angle we are doomed to failure.

I have been saying for years that mental health issues are a huge component.

But availability and accessibility of weapons are an issue as well -and in some cases weapons that can get off so many rounds in such a short period of time is an issue as well.

But one thing is certain - there usually are huge hints ahead of time that something big is brewing. Sometimes the hints are ignored and sometimes they are just not taken seriously enough.

It needs a thoughtful study and reasonable intervention.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom