Children and Guns

One of the issues brought up all too often by the side that doesn't like guns is the issue of children and guns. If you keep guns in the house and you've got children you don't want your children to have access to your guns. You also don't want any of your children's friends to have access to your guns when they're over. Even if you don't have children you might have friends and/or relatives that have children that might come over and bring their children to your house. In short, you don't want any children in your house to have access to any guns you keep in your house. The way I see it, this shouldn't be much of an issue provided certain common sensical safety procedures are followed. Keep all guns in your house locked up or otherwise inaccessible. After all, do you keep medicine in your house? How do you know children won't get into your medicine and eat and drink it? Hopefully you keep your medicine locked up or otherwise inaccessible. Keeping guns in the house is no different than keeping medicine in the house in regards to children.

Depends on the maturity of the child and parental guidance. I (and pretty much everyone I know) was raised in a household with easily accessible guns without accident.

Nap said:

Depends on the maturity of the child and parental guidance. I (and pretty much everyone I know) was raised in a household with easily accessible guns without accident.

Click to expand...

If your parents taught you or if you teach your children to be safe around guns thats all fine and dandy, but the problem is what if your children have friends over who haven't been taught the same stuff, or what if you have friends visiting who have children and they bring their children? Its not just your children that should be a concern.

I was taught gun safety as a child. Fired my first gun (with help) at age 6 at a shooting range. Went on my first hunt at age 13.

The issue here is how children are raised. If your children were taught discipline and respect for life then it's unlikely they'll just go playing with a gun anymore than they'd play with a kitchen knife. Although guns make murder much easier, I don't think it's the presence of guns themselves that incite abuses but the lack of knowledge of the people living with them.

That said it's not always cut and dry. If I knew I had a teenager with mental problems, depression, a history of suicidal ideation... I might think about locking up my guns or removing them all together. If I had a child on psychiatric medication, my guns would be under lock for sure. There's also the issue of having guests over, like friends of your children, who have zero gun experience but may be spending time in the home where there are accessible guns. I don't care about lax laws that let people behave stupidly. In my home, there is the added rule that if you don't have any gun training then you don't touch my guns -- EVER. And if you do, you will never be coming back.

The simple answer is... if you have guns, then you should always exercise vigilance. Gun ownership and a culture of safety go hand in hand. It's why some yahoos give the 2nd Amendment a bad name. They care more about their entitlement to ownership than they do about putting in time and effort to have a healthy relationship to their guns.

DebateChallenge said:

One of the issues brought up all too often by the side that doesn't like guns is the issue of children and guns. If you keep guns in the house and you've got children you don't want your children to have access to your guns. You also don't want any of your children's friends to have access to your guns when they're over. Even if you don't have children you might have friends and/or relatives that have children that might come over and bring their children to your house. In short, you don't want any children in your house to have access to any guns you keep in your house. The way I see it, this shouldn't be much of an issue provided certain common sensical safety procedures are followed. Keep all guns in your house locked up or otherwise inaccessible. After all, do you keep medicine in your house? How do you know children won't get into your medicine and eat and drink it? Hopefully you keep your medicine locked up or otherwise inaccessible. Keeping guns in the house is no different than keeping medicine in the house in regards to children.

Click to expand...

Having guns all over the house wouldn't harm a single child.
Having loaded guns all over the house is a different matter.

There is a reason why guns and ammunition are sold separately: so you can keep both in separate places.

Northern Light said:

That said it's not always cut and dry. If I knew I had a teenager with mental problems, depression, a history of suicidal ideation... I might think about locking up my guns or removing them all together.

Click to expand...

In such a case, where your child is too dangerous to have guns in the house, if you ask me the child should not be living in the house. It would be far too dangerous to have somebody like that living in the house or out in society. I do know of a case of this man whose teenage daughter has homicidal tendencies. He doesn't have any guns as far as I know but he does have knives in the house. She's come at her younger sister with a knife, she's come at him with a knife, he's had to lock up all the knives and put a lock on his bedroom door so she doesn't come at him in his sleep. If you ask me, he should have her committed and its foolish and neglectful that he hasn't not only to him and his family but to society as a whole. We can't have people like that running loose because that's how we have Adam Lanzas. It was obvious he should've been committed, if he had been his victims would still be alive.

Northern Light said:

In my home, there is the added rule that if you don't have any gun training then you don't touch my guns -- EVER. And if you do, you will never be coming back.

Click to expand...

That's all fine and good but what if its too late? What if somebody does play with your guns whose not supposed to and someone gets killed? Banning them from your house will not bring back the person who got killed.

Northern Light said:

The simple answer is... if you have guns, then you should always exercise vigilance. Gun ownership and a culture of safety go hand in hand. It's why some yahoos give the 2nd Amendment a bad name. They care more about their entitlement to ownership than they do about putting in time and effort to have a healthy relationship to their guns.

Click to expand...

I do agree with you about vigilance. But I also believe guns should be properly stored and made inaccessible to unauthorized people. While Im certainly not for any laws that would require guns to be locked up, I strongly emphasize it.

DebateChallenge said:

If your parents taught you or if you teach your children to be safe around guns thats all fine and dandy, but the problem is what if your children have friends over who haven't been taught the same stuff, or what if you have friends visiting who have children and they bring their children? Its not just your children that should be a concern.

Click to expand...

Unless their parents taught them safecracking we'd still be fine.

Barnacle said:

Having guns all over the house wouldn't harm a single child.
Having loaded guns all over the house is a different matter.

There is a reason why guns and ammunition are sold separately: so you can keep both in separate places.

Click to expand...

Treat all guns as if they're loaded even if you know they aren't and even if you've just checked. That is one of the basic rules to proper gun handling that I've been taught. If you handle an unloaded gun sloppily you will handle a loaded gun sloppily.

Rucker61 said:

Unless their parents taught them safecracking we'd still be fine.

Click to expand...

So you keep your guns locked up in a safe. That's good but not everybody does that.

DebateChallenge said:

If your parents taught you or if you teach your children to be safe around guns thats all fine and dandy, but the problem is what if your children have friends over who haven't been taught the same stuff, or what if you have friends visiting who have children and they bring their children? Its not just your children that should be a concern.

Click to expand...

Depends on the parenting skills and maturity of the child. I knew growing up if I had friends over they were my responsibility and it also helps they grew up in the same atmosphere of understanding guns and having a proper respect for the weapon. What works for one community though isn't necessarily the best rule for others. I'm assuming you came from a community that didn't have a particular culture of appreciating and respecting guns so having the same freedom we enjoy might not be the best option for the community you live in.

DebateChallenge said:

Treat all guns as if they're loaded even if you know they aren't and even if you've just checked. That is one of the basic rules to proper gun handling that I've been taught. If you handle an unloaded gun sloppily you will handle a loaded gun sloppily.

Click to expand...

Don't know what you're talking about sloppy handling. A child not familiar with guns doesn't know what sloppy handling is.
I'm just pointing out that if you keep guns openly in your house, don't keep the ammunition in or near them.

DebateChallenge said:

In such a case, where your child is too dangerous to have guns in the house, if you ask me the child should not be living in the house.

Click to expand...

I would not choose guns over my child. I understand the example you gave, but that's an extreme. A homicidal teenager with severe behavioral problems may be a risk to anyone, guns or no guns. In general though, if there is risk to children, then I don't think guns should be openly available in the open. Even when it comes to standing your ground, it's not hard to hide a gun in the closet or a secret place a child can't find.

DebateChallenge said:

That's all fine and good but what if its too late? What if somebody does play with your guns whose not supposed to and someone gets killed? Banning them from your house will not bring back the person who got killed.

Click to expand...

I don't understand the question. I thought we were talking about prevention?

DebateChallenge said:

I do agree with you about vigilance. But I also believe guns should be properly stored and made inaccessible to unauthorized people. While Im certainly not for any laws that would require guns to be locked up, I strongly emphasize it.

Click to expand...

I agree. Laws should not require it for the simple fact it would cause government intrusion, but the definition of a responsible gun owner is someone who places safety above all else.

Northern Light said:

I would not choose guns over my child. I understand the example you gave, but that's an extreme. A homicidal teenager with severe behavioral problems may be a risk to anyone, guns or no guns. In general though, if there is risk to children, then I don't think guns should be openly available in the open. Even when it comes to standing your ground, it's not hard to hide a gun in the closet or a secret place a child can't find.



I don't understand the question. I thought we were talking about prevention?



I agree. Laws should not require it for the simple fact it would cause government intrusion, but the definition of a responsible gun owner is someone who places safety above all else.

Click to expand...

I will disagree with that. If you have the slightest belief you have a child that would be at risk, then you probably shouldn't have them at the house unless locked securely in a safe. Thinking you can simply hide a gun where they couldn't find it is simply impossible. Kids are going to search for things out of curiosity and they will eventually find it, it is simply what kids do.

Nap said:

I will disagree with that. If you have the slightest belief you have a child that would be at risk, then you probably shouldn't have them at the house unless locked securely in a safe. Thinking you can simply hide a gun where they couldn't find it is simply impossible. Kids are going to search for things out of curiosity and they will eventually find it, it is simply what kids do.

Click to expand...

I don't live in the U.S. anymore (expat in Canada) but even if I did, I would not keep my guns out in the open. I am not such a staunch believer in defending property. The chances of an intruder lethally attacking me or my family is nil, so my guns stay locked up. Some of my long arms that can't fit in a safe have trigger locks at the very least.

I more or less referred to castle doctrine to preempt arguments by anyone who would start talking about defending property. If you really need a gun handy that badly then at least put it reasonably out of reach... i.e. not in your night stand, under your mattress or under your bed, FFS.

Northern Light said:

I don't live in the U.S. anymore (expat in Canada) but even if I did, I would not keep my guns out in the open. I am not such a staunch believer in defending property. The chances of an intruder lethally attacking me or my family is nil, so my guns stay locked up. Some of my long arms that can't fit in a safe have trigger locks at the very least.

I more or less referred to castle doctrine to preempt arguments by anyone who would start talking about defending property. If you really need a gun handy that badly then at least put it reasonably out of reach... i.e. not in your night stand, under your mattress or under your bed, FFS.

Click to expand...

With today's technology there isn't really any need to not have a locking safe as they have some really good ones that have quick access. However, the idea we need a law for that is rather ridiculous. Like I stated previously, just about everyone I have ever met grew up with multiple guns easily accessible (night stand, closet, etc) without an issue. In fact I know several that had their own personal guns in their room growing up (I wasn't allowed to keep mine in my bedroom but knew where the key to the gun cabinet was should I need it). For some, guns are the manifestation of pure evil, to others it is merely a tool.

Nap said:

Depends on the parenting skills and maturity of the child. I knew growing up if I had friends over they were my responsibility and it also helps they grew up in the same atmosphere of understanding guns and having a proper respect for the weapon. What works for one community though isn't necessarily the best rule for others. I'm assuming you came from a community that didn't have a particular culture of appreciating and respecting guns so having the same freedom we enjoy might not be the best option for the community you live in.

Click to expand...

I grew up in NJ, not the most gun friendly place and certainly not a place that as a whole appreciates and respects guns. My parents didn't have any guns as they weren't into that kind of stuff although some of my friends lived in homes that had guns in the house. The first time I got to fire a gun was when I was 11 at boy scout camp.

Northern Light said:

I would not choose guns over my child. I understand the example you gave, but that's an extreme. A homicidal teenager with severe behavioral problems may be a risk to anyone, guns or no guns. In general though, if there is risk to children, then I don't think guns should be openly available in the open. Even when it comes to standing your ground, it's not hard to hide a gun in the closet or a secret place a child can't find.

Click to expand...

That depends if the closet or secret place can be securely locked.

Northern Light said:

I don't understand the question. I thought we were talking about prevention?

Click to expand...

You said that anybody who doesn't have training with guns, while they're at your house they don't touch any guns in your house and if they do they get banned from your house. What if somebody who doesn't have any training comes to your house and plays with your guns when you aren't looking and shoots and kills themselves or somebody else? Banning them at that point will not bring back the person they killed.

Northern Light said:

I don't live in the U.S. anymore (expat in Canada) but even if I did, I would not keep my guns out in the open. I am not such a staunch believer in defending property. The chances of an intruder lethally attacking me or my family is nil, so my guns stay locked up. Some of my long arms that can't fit in a safe have trigger locks at the very least.

I more or less referred to castle doctrine to preempt arguments by anyone who would start talking about defending property. If you really need a gun handy that badly then at least put it reasonably out of reach... i.e. not in your night stand, under your mattress or under your bed, FFS.

Click to expand...

In Canada from what I know you have to keep guns in a locked safe or cabinet and they have to be unloaded with the ammo locked up in a separate safe or cabinet, not the best for defense should the need arise.

Nap said:

For some, guns are the manifestation of pure evil

Click to expand...

And those people are stupid.

DebateChallenge said:

In Canada from what I know you have to keep guns in a locked safe or cabinet and they have to be unloaded with the ammo locked up in a separate safe or cabinet, not the best for defense should the need arise.

Click to expand...

the people who pass these laws either are pandering to slow witted sheeple or have a hard on for honest gun owners. its an idiotic law

DebateChallenge said:

I grew up in NJ, not the most gun friendly place and certainly not a place that as a whole appreciates and respects guns. My parents didn't have any guns as they weren't into that kind of stuff although some of my friends lived in homes that had guns in the house. The first time I got to fire a gun was when I was 11 at boy scout camp.

Click to expand...

I think this is the main divide on guns and why federal laws are so inappropriate. What may work in the community you grew up in would only be a hindrance to a non issue where I was raised. This is why we need to stop trying to solve everything by federal laws and move things to the state and local level. Imagine all the problems we could start getting solved if we weren't stuck on polarizing issues like guns.

Nap said:

Depends on the maturity of the child and parental guidance. I (and pretty much everyone I know) was raised in a household with easily accessible guns without accident.

Click to expand...

That of course is a poor argument akin to your saying you have never been raped or robbed so therefor it does not happen.

soylentgreen said:

That of course is a poor argument akin to your saying you have never been raped or robbed so therefor it does not happen.

Click to expand...

I'm talking about an entire community of people, not a single person. I doubt I could find a single person whose father didn't have a pistol in the nightstand. I'm sure accidents happen but at such a low rate that it is statistically irrelevant.

DebateChallenge said:

In such a case, where your child is too dangerous to have guns in the house, if you ask me the child should not be living in the house. It would be far too dangerous to have somebody like that living in the house or out in society. I do know of a case of this man whose teenage daughter has homicidal tendencies. He doesn't have any guns as far as I know but he does have knives in the house. She's come at her younger sister with a knife, she's come at him with a knife, he's had to lock up all the knives and put a lock on his bedroom door so she doesn't come at him in his sleep. If you ask me, he should have her committed and its foolish and neglectful that he hasn't not only to him and his family but to society as a whole. We can't have people like that running loose because that's how we have Adam Lanzas. It was obvious he should've been committed, if he had been his victims would still be alive.

That's all fine and good but what if its too late? What if somebody does play with your guns whose not supposed to and someone gets killed? Banning them from your house will not bring back the person who got killed.


.

Click to expand...

It is ridiculous to assume that an inquisitive child, of which children are naturally, has mischief as their only purpose.

Banned? Another example of a pro gun perons first line of defense when faced with a serious issue about guns is to whinge that "they" want to ban guns. The issue here would be gun safety not banning guns.

I do agree with you about vigilance. But I also believe guns should be properly stored and made inaccessible to unauthorized people. While Im certainly not for any laws that would require guns to be locked up, I strongly emphasize it.

Click to expand...

Yet the pro gun group always make the claim that it their right to defend themselves in cases of home invasion by criminals. Which is an argument in direct opposition to your emphasise.

Nap said:

I'm talking about an entire community of people, not a single person. I doubt I could find a single person whose father didn't have a pistol in the nightstand. I'm sure accidents happen but at such a low rate that it is statistically irrelevant.

Click to expand...

And again you need to back your idea up and not just rely upon circumstantial evidence or what your neighbors think.
https://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/19/health/child-gun-violence-study/index.html

From 2012 to 2014, on average, 1,297 children died annually from a gun-related injury in the US, according to the study, published in the journal Pediatrics on Monday.

Click to expand...

or is it a case of you think that many childrens lives are irrelevant?