Children and Guns

jaeger19 · Feb 20, 2018

soylentgreen said:
Right! Because people who drown in a pool are proof that there is no problem with guns. .

no.. the fact that drowning in a pool is statistically much more likely is why there is proof of no problem with guns.

Mine is not a blanket statement that americans in general are stupid with guns

And that's a nuanced position on your part.

pro gun movement into accepting stupidity with guns is a right.

Well.. except that there is no pro gun propaganda that "accepting stupidity with guns is a right".

All gun owners believe that if you are stupid with a firearm and you injure someone else... you are liable.

I have argued that some americans are not only stupid with their handling of guns but they and the pro gun group are willing to let people die in order to maintain a freedom to be stupid with guns.
It is really unfortunate that it has to explained time and time again to the pro gun movement that guns are not the cause of death but the idiot using the gun is. Unfortunately again the pro gun movement is fixated on the idea that it is all about the gun, it is not, it is about the right to be an idiot with a gun that is the problem.

Hmmm... well that might be the cause for confusion.... but the pro gun movement is not fixated that it is all about the gun. and now where in America.. pro gun or anti gun.. do you have a "right to be stupid with a firearm" and harm another.

You cannot rebut the argument i make so instead will ignore it and instead misrepresent it. It is the deliberate and dishonest method of debate by the pro gun group to always pretend it is about taking your guns away from you.

Sir.. you really don't have an argument to rebut. that's because the idea that the pro gun movement thinks we have a "right to be stupid " with a firearm and hurt other people... is just plain false.

And i am fully aware of your despicable practice of using other types of death to minimize the deaths caused by stupidity with guns.

Well.. you might want to look up the word despicable.

You have not given any facts that prove me wrong. You have just tried to use death by any other means as an excuse to ignore death by stupidity with guns.

Sure I have. you just don't want to accept the facts.

soylentgreen · Feb 21, 2018

jaeger19 said:
no.. the fact that drowning in a pool is statistically much more likely is why there is proof of no problem with guns.

I have given two links that demonstrate not only stupidity with a gun but that society accepts such stupidity and the courts absolve them of that stupidity. All you do is deny.

And that's a nuanced position on your part.

Well yes. So that people like you who claim they are not stupid with a gun do not get away with the false argument that because they are not then no one is.

Well.. except that there is no pro gun propaganda that "accepting stupidity with guns is a right".

Bul****, you let children die and brush it aside with the stuopid statement that it is of no concern because many more die by drowning. You could not get a more stupider bit of propaganda than that.

All gun owners believe that if you are stupid with a firearm and you injure someone else... you are liable.

Again bull****. Blanket statement. You have no ability to read anyones mind. You again are trying for the miserable excuse of because you do not no one does. And i have given two links that demonstrate stupidity is sanctioned by society and the courts.

Hmmm... well that might be the cause for confusion.... but the pro gun movement is not fixated that it is all about the gun. and now where in America.. pro gun or anti gun.. do you have a "right to be stupid with a firearm" and harm another.

Again, nothing more than denial. Not even convincing just another ability to ignore the facts.

Sir.. you really don't have an argument to rebut. that's because the idea that the pro gun movement thinks we have a "right to be stupid " with a firearm and hurt other people... is just plain false.

yet two examples are given that cannot be denied. Nor is there any indication that the courts or your society has had any change of mind about allowing such stupidity to occur.

Well.. you might want to look up the word despicable.

And you might as well accept that your words are such.

Sure I have. you just don't want to accept the facts.

Just going into denial proves only what a poor debater you are, nothing more.

jaeger19 · Feb 21, 2018

soylentgreen said:
I have given two links that demonstrate not only stupidity with a gun but that society accepts such stupidity and the courts absolve them of that stupidity. All you do is deny.

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You gave two links of examples of instances of stupidity with a gun... and no evidence that society accepts such stupidity or the courts "absolve them of stupidity".

That does not show a societal problem with firearms.

Well yes. So that people like you who claim they are not stupid with a gun do not get away with the false argument that because they are not then no one is.

Yeah.. you should read your word salad again. WTF?

Bul****, you let children die and brush it aside with the stuopid statement that it is of no concern because many more die by drowning. You could not get a more stupider bit of propaganda than that.

Oh BS... first..... I don't "let children die"...... what a load of crap. I am strong proponent of gun safety and gun safety training and am a certified hunting education instructor.....so don't try you BS with me.

And though yes.. accidents happen... we don't have a societal problem with firearms. IF we did.. then statistically the injury rate with firearms would be higher than pools, bicycles, poisons etc. but it is not. the facts are that there are far more deadlier things out there for children then firearms.... that's the facts.

Now... knowing that.. it makes more sense.. to put efforts into things that will have greater effect on childrens lives... like poison education, pool safety, bicycle safety etc..... since statistically they are more dangerous.

Again bull****. Blanket statement. You have no ability to read anyones mind

Oh wait... but you are able to read every gun owners mind and know that they think they have a "right to be stupid with a firearm".

Just about every jurisdiction has laws against reckless discharge of firearms. IF "the right to be stupid with a firearm".... was truly thought to be a right... there would be no such laws.

Again, nothing more than denial. Not even convincing just another ability to ignore the facts.

You mean ignore the facts that there are so many more things.. like pools that are dangerous.

Ignore the fact that our largest gun owner organization is all about firearm safety

Ignore that just about every jurisdiction has laws against reckless behavior with firearms.

Yeah... If you ignore the facts.....then you might think you have an argument.

But based on the facts.. you don't.

yet two examples are given that cannot be denied. Nor is there any indication that the courts or your society has had any change of mind about allowing such stupidity to occur.

Oh MY GOD... millions of gun owners.. .millions of firearms owned......

AND YOU FOUND TWO count them TWO examples. Well obviously you got us there.

hey... all I have is national statistics....

Gun sales are up, and accidental gun injuries are down, according to a report released this month by the National Safety Council.

The NSC’s “Injury Facts -2017 Edition” shows a 17 percent decrease in accidents involving firearms from 2014 to 2015, a period when gun sales soared.

There were 489 unintentional firearms-related fatalities during that time period, the lowest total since record-keeping began in 1903, accounting for less than 1 percent of accident deaths. This decrease, which was the largest percentage decline of any category cited in the NSC’s report, came in a year that saw record-high firearm sales.

But but... you have "two examples"... :doh:lamo

Just going into denial proves only what a poor debater you are, nothing more.

See above. The facts I have provided blow your "debate" out of the water.

DebateChallenge · Feb 21, 2018

soylentgreen said:
Right! Because people who drown in a pool are proof that there is no problem with guns. No, it is more a case of a despicable use of people dying in pools being used to gloss over the fact that people also die from stupidity with guns.

The point is, roughly three times as many children die from drowning in swimming pools as do by guns and that being the case people should be making a fuss about swimming pools when instead they're making a fuss about guns.

Two things that cause death and one of them causes three times more death and you fuss about the one that causes less deaths? That doesn't make sense.

soylentgreen · Feb 22, 2018

jaeger19 said:
You gave two links of examples of instances of stupidity with a gun... and no evidence that society accepts such stupidity or the courts "absolve them of stupidity".

That does not show a societal problem with firearms.

Willfully ignorant or your lack of comprehension skills again. In both cases not one person spoke up against the action nor did any court prosecute.

Yeah.. you should read your word salad again. WTF?

And you should try and not make pretend points to score off.

Oh BS... first..... I don't "let children die"...... what a load of crap. I am strong proponent of gun safety and gun safety training and am a certified hunting education instructor.....so don't try you BS with me.

And yet here you are arguing that chidrens deaths by gun are not worth bothering about because death by drowning cancels any concern for it.

And though yes.. accidents happen... we don't have a societal problem with firearms. IF we did.. then statistically the injury rate with firearms would be higher than pools, bicycles, poisons etc. but it is not. the facts are that there are far more deadlier things out there for children then firearms.... that's the facts.

So death by fire arms can therefore be ignored. Basically so that you and your ilk can continue to get away with any accidental stupidity with guns.

Now... knowing that.. it makes more sense.. to put efforts into things that will have greater effect on childrens lives... like poison education, pool safety, bicycle safety etc..... since statistically they are more dangerous.

Once again your dishonesty is apparent. No one is arguing that other forms of danger should not have more care put into them. You however are trying to argue that we can afford to ignore the stupidity with guns that kill children because there are other forms of danger.

Oh wait... but you are able to read every gun owners mind and know that they think they have a "right to be stupid with a firearm"

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No, tat is your bull**** response to knowing that stupidity does not exist. Again you are being dishonest as i have repeatedly said that not all gun owners are to blame only those who demonstrate stupidity with a gun.

Just about every jurisdiction has laws against reckless discharge of firearms. IF "the right to be stupid with a firearm".... was truly thought to be a right... there would be no such laws.

Yet a child in kentucky kills a sibling and the parents are not prosecuted for negligence. or a man in texas kills a person without first finding out if that person is indeed a threat. You may have laws but you also have a society and a justice system that ignores those laws because of a belief that stupidity with a gun is a right . that killing people is a right.

You mean ignore the facts that there are so many more things.. like pools that are dangerous.

No i have not once said that. But unlike you i am not advocating that we ignore death by guns because there is many other forms of danger. Your dishonest attempt to project your failed argument on to me is about the level of deceit i expect from a pro gun person.

Ignore the fact that our largest gun owner organization is all about firearm safety

Of which those who act stupidly and ignore safety are not prosecuted.

Ignore that just about every jurisdiction has laws against reckless behavior with firearms.

Which the two links i have given demonstrate the fallacy of that.

Yeah... If you ignore the facts.....then you might think you have an argument.

But based on the facts.. you don't.

No, i have just pointed out your facts are bull**** excuses to ignore the stupidity with guns that is condoned in your country.

Oh MY GOD... millions of gun owners.. .millions of firearms owned......

AND YOU FOUND TWO count them TWO examples. Well obviously you got us there.

hey... all I have is national statistics....

No you do not. You just misuse those statistics to hide what is really happening. And it is not a matter of quantity. i It is a matter of whether you can demonstrate that society does not condone stupidity which you have not or that the courts will not absolve stupidity which you have not.

But but... you have "two examples"... :doh:lamo

Which you have failed to negate. The laughter is on you. This again is nothing more than a deceitful practice of minimising the problem rather than dealing with it.

See above. The facts I have provided blow your "debate" out of the water.

Your pathetic attempts of distraction and trying to gloss over the problem are obvious and do nothing more than demonstrate how dishonest the pro gun group are when it comes to protecting their perceived right to kill.

soylentgreen · Feb 22, 2018

DebateChallenge said:
The point is, roughly three times as many children die from drowning in swimming pools as do by guns and that being the case people should be making a fuss about swimming pools when instead they're making a fuss about guns.

Two things that cause death and one of them causes three times more death and you fuss about the one that causes less deaths? That doesn't make sense.

Because it is perfectly acceptable for children to die by firearms if there are more people dying by drowning. What a ridiculous idea.

And no one is ignoring death by drowning. Should you or anyone start a thread on the dangers of pools i would not try this kind of lame distraction trick by pointing out children die by guns as you are attempting here.

The pro gun group could not be more obvious that they are so desperate to get people to look any where else but at the fact that you condone stupidity with guns and a belief that you have a right to kill.

Do not waste my time with your petty tricks of distraction. If you have a problem with death by pools then start a thread on it instead of trying to derail this thread because you have no answer to deal with the problem of children dying through adults being stupid with guns.

jaeger19 · Feb 22, 2018

soylentgreen said:
Willfully ignorant or your lack of comprehension skills again. In both cases not one person spoke up against the action nor did any court prosecute.
.

Bull... you don't know who or what spoke up against the action... and likely in those local communities... those actions will be used as examples when teaching gun safety to people of what can go wrong.

As far as prosecute? It makes sense that further prosecution really served no purpose.

And yet here you are arguing that chidrens deaths by gun are not worth bothering about because death by drowning cancels any concern for it.

Nope... never argued that at all. That's you making stuff up. I point out that America does not have a societal problem with "stupidity with guns".

The facts are that statistically we are very safe with guns... and in fact... the facts show that we have less gun accidents than almost ever before. Because we are doing a BETTER job of educating the public on gun safety.

So death by fire arms can therefore be ignored. Basically so that you and your ilk can continue to get away with any accidental stupidity with guns.

nope.. no one has said it "needs to be ignored"... it just needs to be put in perspective that our society does not have a problem with "stupidity with guns". heck as gun sales soared... accidents WENT DOWN.

What shows is that our gun safety classes, that me and "my ilk".. that teach gun safety and hunter education are doing a pretty good job... since gun accidents are at a low... despite soaring gun sales.

Once again your dishonesty is apparent. No one is arguing that other forms of danger should not have more care put into them. You however are trying to argue that we can afford to ignore the stupidity with guns that kill children because there are other forms of danger.

Actually your dishonesty is showing. You tried to claim that americans as a society suffer from Stupidity with guns. And the facts are..... we don't. You made a claim about American society that was simply NOT TRUE. and now.. are trying to make up lies about "we can afford to ignore stupidity with guns"... blah blah blah.

No, tat is your bull**** response to knowing that stupidity does not exist. Again you are being dishonest as i have repeatedly said that not all gun owners are to blame only those who demonstrate stupidity with a gun.

And again your dishonesty is showing. You made the claim that americans as a society feel they have a right to be stupid with guns. And now you are running away from your premise because the facts show you are wrong.

Of which those who act stupidly and ignore safety are not prosecuted

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and that's patently false. Those who act stupidly get charged and prosecuted all the time. But... for one..... recklessness with a firearm is rare anyway.

And sometimes when it happens... if the outcome was dire enough... whats the point of prosecuting? If you shoot your son accidently.... and he spends the next year in surgery and rehab because of your stupidity..... what does sending you to jail do other than making it HARDER on your son? :doh

No you do not. You just misuse those statistics to hide what is really happening. And it is not a matter of quantity. i It is a matter of whether you can demonstrate that society does not condone stupidity which you have not or that the courts will not absolve stupidity which you have not.

Sure I have. there is no misuse of statistics. Heck the national statistics prove what I have said. Meanwhile.. you provide two examples and have extrapolated them to the whole of American society.

Which you have failed to negate. The laughter is on you. This again is nothing more than a deceitful practice of minimising the problem rather than dealing with it.

We are already dealing with it... that's why I was able to provide evidence that gun accidents was at a 70 year low.

The facts are just not on your side.

Your pathetic attempts of distraction and trying to gloss over the problem are obvious and do nothing more than demonstrate how dishonest the pro gun group are when it comes to protecting their perceived right to kill.

wow.. you really have issues. And now.. despite the facts... you are claiming that pro gun groups in America believe they have a "perceived right to kill".

I have to admit your posts might be nonsense... but they are amusing.

molten_dragon · Feb 23, 2018

We have a 3 year old and a 1.5 year old so this is definitely a concern for my wife and I. We're starting to teach the 3 year old gun safety, the little one is too young obviously. And as you pointed out, we have no idea if their friends will know what to do with a gun. So we keep most of ours locked up. Most are in the gun safe in the basement, unloaded. There's a handgun in a quick-access safe under the bed. We keep that one unloaded but with a loaded magazine in the box with it. The only loaded guns in the house are if my wife or I are carrying concealed, and those are on our person.

soylentgreen · Feb 23, 2018

jaeger19 said:
Bull... you don't know who or what spoke up against the action... and likely in those local communities... those actions will be used as examples when teaching gun safety to people of what can go wrong.

Wonderful response. Someone must have spoken up, don't know who or what they said and the lesson learned is that it is gods fault. You are a joke.

As far as prosecute? It makes sense that further prosecution really served no purpose

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Right! Someine robs a bank and spends the money. No point in doing anything about it because the money is gone. Pathetic.

Nope... never argued that at all. That's you making stuff up. I point out that America does not have a societal problem with "stupidity with guns".

Pointing out that we can ignore the death of children from guns because more people die in pools is exactly doing that. All you have done is deny.

The facts are that statistically we are very safe with guns... and in fact... the facts show that we have less gun accidents than almost ever before. Because we are doing a BETTER job of educating the public on gun safety.

Again a bull**** misuse of statistics and the hope that we only look at numbers while disregarding the fact that children die because people are being stupid with guns.

nope.. no one has said it "needs to be ignored"... it just needs to be put in perspective that our society does not have a problem with "stupidity with guns". heck as gun sales soared... accidents WENT DOWN.

Right! And your perspective is that we need do nothing about guns because pools are the real danger. Your atempt at backtracking on the stupidity of yur arguments so far are as weak as the arguments you have made.

What shows is that our gun safety classes, that me and "my ilk".. that teach gun safety and hunter education are doing a pretty good job... since gun accidents are at a low... despite soaring gun sales.

Another pathetic attempt at changing the subject. No one is interested in the fact that you are safe with guns. That does nothing to cjhange the fact that children die because others are being stupid with guns.

Actually your dishonesty is showing. You tried to claim that americans as a society suffer from Stupidity with guns. And the facts are..... we don't. You made a claim about American society that was simply NOT TRUE. and now.. are trying to make up lies about "we can afford to ignore stupidity with guns"... blah blah blah.

Back to simple minded denial. How do you manage to type with both fingers in your ears and shouting it's not true.

And again your dishonesty is showing. You made the claim that americans as a society feel they have a right to be stupid with guns. And now you are running away from your premise because the facts show you are wrong.

Not running away, merely putting into perspective after your lame attempt to pretend that i am claiming all americans are stupid with guns.

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and that's patently false. Those who act stupidly get charged and prosecuted all the time. But... for one..... recklessness with a firearm is rare anyway.

No ,they are not. I have given evidence that they are not. One only has to look at the amount of police shootings of unarmed victims to know that is false. Again you have nothing to give but denial.

And sometimes when it happens... if the outcome was dire enough... whats the point of prosecuting? If you shoot your son accidently.... and he spends the next year in surgery and rehab because of your stupidity..... what does sending you to jail do other than making it HARDER on your son? :doh

Why send a man to jail if he robs a bank to help raise his family. It only makes it harder on his family. Why bother prosecuting anyone who can give a decent sob story as to why they did what they did.

Sure I have. there is no misuse of statistics. Heck the national statistics prove what I have said. Meanwhile.. you provide two examples and have extrapolated them to the whole of American society.

No, you are just pointing to the numbers of non incidents while completely ignoring any incident of stupidity and then claiming stupidity does not happen. That is a misuse of statistics.

We are already dealing with it... that's why I was able to provide evidence that gun accidents was at a 70 year low.
The facts are just not on your side.

Not to one who insists that denying anything that does not fit his view.

wow.. you really have issues. And now.. despite the facts... you are claiming that pro gun groups in America believe they have a "perceived right to kill".

I have to admit your posts might be nonsense... but they are amusing

And that is all you can offer your amusement because you really have nothing else to back you.

jaeger19 · Feb 23, 2018

soylentgreen said:
Wonderful response. Someone must have spoken up, don't know who or what they said and the lesson learned is that it is gods fault. You are a joke.

that's funny... I am a joke and you post that the lesson learned is that its "god's fault"...

You certainly are amusing.

Right! Someine robs a bank and spends the money. No point in doing anything about it because the money is gone. Pathetic.

Actually in those cases it makes sense to prosecute the person.. just like they prosecute people that are stupid with guns that hurt other people.

Dude.. you realize what you are saying right?

Pointing out that we can ignore the death of children from guns because more people die in pools is exactly doing that. All you have done is deny.

Wrong.. I have never done that. but you keep making stuff up... you are so good at it.

Not running away, merely putting into perspective after your lame attempt to pretend that i am claiming all americans are stupid with guns.

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now now.. stop your lying... you have repeatedly stated American society is stupid with guns.. that you think that Americans think they have a "right to be stupid with guns".. and you think americans believe that "they have a right to kill".

The posts are all there.

And that is all you can offer your amusement because you really have nothing else to back you

Well.. that and the evidence I presented on gun safety figures as a nation.. you know.. those facts that get in the way of your hyperbole.

Children and Guns

Anti-Hypocrite