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Proposal: A Gun in every household

Starvos

Starvos

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"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is a symbol of democracy, and it is our job to see it stays there"

Relaxing our gun laws and even encouraging gun ownership would do wonders to reduce the rate of firearm murders in this country, first by helping to eliminate the black market, and second, allowing these guns to be registered by responsible citizens with clean backround checks.

But this must also be a two-pronged approach. Mandatory rigourous training, saftey courses and strict backround checks must be enforced so we have a responsible well-armed population.
For political reasons this would be good, after all political power truly grows out of the barrel of a rifle.

However, what liberals don't seem to understand is that America doesnt have a gun problem; guns have an America problem. But part of fixing this problem is changing the way we deal with guns. Let the responsible, law-abiding citizens have their guns and make sure they get their training and proper evaluations.

But the bigger problem that leads to mass shootings, gun violence and gangs is the poverty, alienation, humiliation and mental illness caused largely by our precious capitalist system.
 
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Starvos said:
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is a symbol of democracy, and it is our job to see it stays there"

Relaxing our gun laws and even encouraging gun ownership would do wonders to reduce the rate of firearm murders in this country, first by helping to eliminate the black market, and second, allowing these guns to be registered by responsible citizens with clean backround checks.

But this must also be a two-pronged approach. Mandatory rigourous training, saftey courses and strict backround checks must be enforced so we have a responsible well-armed population.
For political reasons this would be good, after all political power truly grows out of the barrel of a rifle.

However, what liberals don't seem to understand is that America doesnt have a gun problem; guns have an America problem. But part of fixing this problem is changing the way we deal with guns. Let the responsible, law-abiding citizens have their guns and make sure they get their training and proper evaluations.

But the bigger problem that leads to mass shootings, gun violence and gangs is the poverty, alienation, humiliation and mental illness caused largely by our precious capitalist system.
Click to expand...

Very good post up until you blamed pretty much all of societies problems on capitalism.
 
Starvos said:
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is a symbol of democracy, and it is our job to see it stays there"

Relaxing our gun laws and even encouraging gun ownership would do wonders to reduce the rate of firearm murders in this country, first by helping to eliminate the black market, and second, allowing these guns to be registered by responsible citizens with clean backround checks.

But this must also be a two-pronged approach. Mandatory rigourous training, saftey courses and strict backround checks must be enforced so we have a responsible well-armed population.
For political reasons this would be good, after all political power truly grows out of the barrel of a rifle.

However, what liberals don't seem to understand is that America doesnt have a gun problem; guns have an America problem. But part of fixing this problem is changing the way we deal with guns. Let the responsible, law-abiding citizens have their guns and make sure they get their training and proper evaluations.

But the bigger problem that leads to mass shootings, gun violence and gangs is the poverty, alienation, humiliation and mental illness caused largely by our precious capitalist system.
Click to expand...

I think we should graft a gun onto every child's hand at 13 so they will never be without it... :2razz:
 
Starvos said:
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is a symbol of democracy, and it is our job to see it stays there"

Relaxing our gun laws and even encouraging gun ownership would do wonders to reduce the rate of firearm murders in this country, first by helping to eliminate the black market, and second, allowing these guns to be registered by responsible citizens with clean backround checks.

But this must also be a two-pronged approach. Mandatory rigourous training, saftey courses and strict backround checks must be enforced so we have a responsible well-armed population.

For political reasons this would be good, after all political power truly grows out of the barrel of a rifle.

However, what liberals don't seem to understand is that America doesnt have a gun problem; guns have an America problem. But part of fixing this problem is changing the way we deal with guns. Let the responsible, law-abiding citizens have their guns and make sure they get their training and proper evaluations.

But the bigger problem that leads to mass shootings, gun violence and gangs is the poverty, alienation, humiliation and mental illness caused largely by our precious capitalist system.
Click to expand...

I definitely agree that all guns need to be registered, 100%.
 
Nap said:
Very good post up until you blamed pretty much all of societies problems on capitalism.
Click to expand...

He's not wrong. Capitalism necessitates winners and losers, and losers are going to be more prone to criminal behaviour as a means to get by. The vast majority of gun deaths are linked to poverty-driven behaviour, such as gangs and robberies, or to a lack of mental health care in rural areas, where mental care isn't profitable.
 
spud_meister said:
He's not wrong. Capitalism necessitates winners and losers, and losers are going to be more prone to criminal behaviour as a means to get by. The vast majority of gun deaths are linked to poverty-driven behaviour, such as gangs and robberies, or to a lack of mental health care in rural areas, where mental care isn't profitable.
Click to expand...

So, if you tink there were less guns and had less access to them, than gun violence would go down?
 
Starvos said:
However, what liberals don't seem to understand is that America doesnt have a gun problem....
Click to expand...
;

True. America does have a problem, with murderers.

Let the responsible, law-abiding citizens have their guns.....
Click to expand...

Luckily for us over on the Western side of the pond, this is considered to be a right.

But the bigger problem that leads to mass shootings, gun violence and gangs is the poverty, alienation, humiliation and mental illness caused largely by our precious capitalist system.
Click to expand...

Mass shootings are a small minority of murders in the US. In any case, can you provide any evidence that the "precious capitalist system" is somehow related to mass shootings? This is the first time I have ever heard such a claim.

I do believe that it would be possible to reduce gang-related murders by eliminating the black market in recreational drugs, but that is not the same thing as saying that capitalism "somehow" results in mass murder.
 
Bucky said:
So, if you tink there were less guns and had less access to them, than gun violence would go down?
Click to expand...

No, being prohibited from owning a gun doesn't make it less likely criminals will have a gun: https://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fuo.pdf
Violent offenders who had served a prior sentence and first time violent offenders were about equally likely to be carrying a firearm when committing their current offense
Click to expand...

Gun ddeaths needs to be tackled from the cause, not the symptom. Economic and educational opportunities need to be increased in impoverished communities, and there needs to be a system of mental healthcare available for people living in rural areas.
 
spud_meister said:
He's not wrong. Capitalism necessitates winners and losers, and losers are going to be more prone to criminal behaviour as a means to get by. The vast majority of gun deaths are linked to poverty-driven behaviour, such as gangs and robberies, or to a lack of mental health care in rural areas, where mental care isn't profitable.
Click to expand...

True, but those same issues would exist in any economic system.
 
spud_meister said:
No, being prohibited from owning a gun doesn't make it less likely criminals will have a gun: https://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fuo.pdf


Gun ddeaths needs to be tackled from the cause, not the symptom. Economic and educational opportunities need to be increased in impoverished communities, and there needs to be a system of mental healthcare available for people living in rural areas.
Click to expand...

It seems to the root of the problem is the actual gun.
 
Nap said:
True, but those same issues would exist in any economic system.
Click to expand...

This is true. However, the free market in particular has always served to aggrevate these problems in society
 
Starvos said:
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is a symbol of democracy, and it is our job to see it stays there"
Click to expand...

This is a quote from...who?

Relaxing our gun laws and even encouraging gun ownership would do wonders to reduce the rate of firearm murders in this country, first by helping to eliminate the black market, and second, allowing these guns to be registered by responsible citizens with clean backround checks.
Click to expand...

Encouraging gun ownership has indeed resulted in less crime in Detroit -- but that city still has a long way to go.

But this must also be a two-pronged approach. Mandatory rigourous training, saftey courses and strict backround checks must be enforced so we have a responsible well-armed population.
For political reasons this would be good, after all political power truly grows out of the barrel of a rifle.
Click to expand...

Correct handling is, of course, essential, but I'm not sure I'd go with the "mandatory rigorous" thing. A woman who want to buy a firearm for immediate protection needs one now -- not after mandatory rigorous, although it'd be nice to offer some sort of rudimentary training where she bought it.

However, what liberals don't seem to understand is that America doesnt have a gun problem; guns have an America problem. But part of fixing this problem is changing the way we deal with guns. Let the responsible, law-abiding citizens have their guns and make sure they get their training and proper evaluations.
Click to expand...

Now you're throwing in "evaluations," and I'd like to know more about your ideas on that one.

But the bigger problem that leads to mass shootings, gun violence and gangs is the poverty, alienation, humiliation and mental illness caused largely by our precious capitalist system.
Click to expand...

Poverty has an impact on gang activity to be sure, but not so much on mass shootings and our capitalist system has nothing to do with it whatsoever. Anger and humiliation may play a role, but they're a sad part of our public school system (and folks wonder why some parents homeschool) and when you herd that many young people into buildings like sheep, there will be repercussions and not all of those repercussions will be pleasant. Some shooter have no identifiable trigger, like the Vegas shooter, so how do you propose to stop that kind?
 
spud_meister said:
He's not wrong. Capitalism necessitates winners and losers, and losers are going to be more prone to criminal behaviour as a means to get by. The vast majority of gun deaths are linked to poverty-driven behaviour, such as gangs and robberies, or to a lack of mental health care in rural areas, where mental care isn't profitable.
Click to expand...

But poverty isn't the true catalyst of gang activity, although it's related. It's the creation of a "system within a system" -- a power struggle -- within the communities themselves and the ones struggling for power are the ones who've been handed governmental help on a platter until they feel they are impotent. Poor communities exist all over the world, but they don't contain the violence level of our inner city "hoods." The social programs focused on these individuals have stripped away their individual feelings of human power to succeed anywhere but in the hood.

Capitalism didn't do that to them -- crippling social programs did.
 
spud_meister said:
No, being prohibited from owning a gun doesn't make it less likely criminals will have a gun: https://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fuo.pdf


Gun ddeaths needs to be tackled from the cause, not the symptom. Economic and educational opportunities need to be increased in impoverished communities, and there needs to be a system of mental healthcare available for people living in rural areas.
Click to expand...

This is the double-edged sword right here.

As long as you can supply something without making the person who receives it feel lesser or entitled, you might have something. To date -- we haven't seen that type of program, although the new "work for Medicaid" program might help some.
 
HowardBThiname said:
This is a quote from...who?



Encouraging gun ownership has indeed resulted in less crime in Detroit -- but that city still has a long way to go.



Correct handling is, of course, essential, but I'm not sure I'd go with the "mandatory rigorous" thing. A woman who want to buy a firearm for immediate protection needs one now -- not after mandatory rigorous, although it'd be nice to offer some sort of rudimentary training where she bought it.



Now you're throwing in "evaluations," and I'd like to know more about your ideas on that one.



Poverty has an impact on gang activity to be sure, but not so much on mass shootings and our capitalist system has nothing to do with it whatsoever. Anger and humiliation may play a role, but they're a sad part of our public school system (and folks wonder why some parents homeschool) and when you herd that many young people into buildings like sheep, there will be repercussions and not all of those repercussions will be pleasant. Some shooter have no identifiable trigger, like the Vegas shooter, so how do you propose to stop that kind?
Click to expand...
Orwell.

You make a fair point on the training part, I suppose it is all up to circumstances.

As for evaluations, a quick mental health checkup certaintly wouldn't hurt in the process of buying an item that can spit fire and death.

Gangs are a result of a multitude of material circumstances, almost all of them created by the capitalist system we live in, such as income inequality and things such as single parent households, drug useage and the exposure to "gangsta" culture all lead to violent crimes and illegal firearm usage. You don't see middle class people joining gangs and shooting eachother over "turf". It's all about material conditions.
 
Starvos said:
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is a symbol of democracy, and it is our job to see it stays there"

Relaxing our gun laws and even encouraging gun ownership would do wonders to reduce the rate of firearm murders in this country, first by helping to eliminate the black market, and second, allowing these guns to be registered by responsible citizens with clean backround checks.

But this must also be a two-pronged approach. Mandatory rigourous training, saftey courses and strict backround checks must be enforced so we have a responsible well-armed population.
For political reasons this would be good, after all political power truly grows out of the barrel of a rifle.

However, what liberals don't seem to understand is that America doesnt have a gun problem; guns have an America problem. But part of fixing this problem is changing the way we deal with guns. Let the responsible, law-abiding citizens have their guns and make sure they get their training and proper evaluations.

But the bigger problem that leads to mass shootings, gun violence and gangs is the poverty, alienation, humiliation and mental illness caused largely by our precious capitalist system.
Click to expand...

Would you support this curtail with other rights as well? Should a voter be required to pass a civics class before voting? And if they cant own a gun they certainly shouldnt be able to vote, because thats a much more dangerous weapon
 
HowardBThiname said:
This is the double-edged sword right here.

As long as you can supply something without making the person who receives it feel lesser or entitled, you might have something. To date -- we haven't seen that type of program, although the new "work for Medicaid" program might help some.
Click to expand...

Guranteeing social services as long as one is A. Willing to work B. Is legitimately disabled will fix that problem.
Otherwise, those who don't contribute to society should not excpect society to contribute to them.
 
Crovax said:
Would you support this curtail with other rights as well? Should a voter be required to pass a civics class before voting? And if they cant own a gun they certainly shouldnt be able to vote, because thats a much more dangerous weapon
Click to expand...

Requiring citizens to have a mandatory basic training course for a deadly weapon that requires great responsibility and maturity to handle is not "Curtailing rights".
As for voting, thats a very good question I do not have an answer for, but it should be our school's jobs in the first place to provide a basic bare bones explaination of politics.
 
Bucky said:
It seems to the root of the problem is the actual gun.
Click to expand...

Based on what? You think people would get jobs and stop seeking money through violent crime if guns were banned? Banning guns wouldn't even stop people getting guns, as historical prohibition on alcohol and contemporary prohibition on drugs have both demonstrated eloquently. It's a delusion to think banning guns in a nation with one of the most porous borders in the world would make them magically vanish.
 
HowardBThiname said:
But poverty isn't the true catalyst of gang activity, although it's related. It's the creation of a "system within a system" -- a power struggle -- within the communities themselves and the ones struggling for power are the ones who've been handed governmental help on a platter until they feel they are impotent. Poor communities exist all over the world, but they don't contain the violence level of our inner city "hoods." The social programs focused on these individuals have stripped away their individual feelings of human power to succeed anywhere but in the hood.

Capitalism didn't do that to them -- crippling social programs did.
Click to expand...

What utter nonsense. Violence is strongly linked with poverty. All the most crime-ridden cities in the world have massive poverty, and usually drug gangs.
 
spud_meister said:
What utter nonsense. Violence is strongly linked with poverty. All the most crime-ridden cities in the world have massive poverty, and usually drug gangs.
Click to expand...

Well, yes, indirectly. Business disputes within the black market (drugs) cannot be solved through the normal legal system. Therefore, the various merchants ("drug gangs") and consumers ("drug users") are forced to create their own methods to manage these disputes. These methods can include arbitration, but also usually include violence.
 
Starvos said:
Requiring citizens to have a mandatory basic training course for a deadly weapon that requires great responsibility and maturity to handle is not "Curtailing rights".
As for voting, thats a very good question I do not have an answer for, but it should be our school's jobs in the first place to provide a basic bare bones explaination of politics.
Click to expand...

Any time you place restrictions on rights your are curtailing them regardless of the justification
 
Crovax said:
Any time you place restrictions on rights your are curtailing them regardless of the justification
Click to expand...

Requring citizens to have the knowledge on how to safely handle and use automatic weapons is not an unreasonable demand, nor is it preventing them from having the guns in the first place.

I'm very pro gun myself. In order to have a responsible armed working class, they need to know how to use the bloody things. Its idealistic to suggest otherwise.
 
Starvos said:
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is a symbol of democracy, and it is our job to see it stays there"

Relaxing our gun laws and even encouraging gun ownership would do wonders to reduce the rate of firearm murders in this country, first by helping to eliminate the black market, and second, allowing these guns to be registered by responsible citizens with clean backround checks.

But this must also be a two-pronged approach. Mandatory rigourous training, saftey courses and strict backround checks must be enforced so we have a responsible well-armed population.
For political reasons this would be good, after all political power truly grows out of the barrel of a rifle.

However, what liberals don't seem to understand is that America doesnt have a gun problem; guns have an America problem. But part of fixing this problem is changing the way we deal with guns. Let the responsible, law-abiding citizens have their guns and make sure they get their training and proper evaluations.

But the bigger problem that leads to mass shootings, gun violence and gangs is the poverty, alienation, humiliation and mental illness caused largely by our precious capitalist system.
Click to expand...

Yes, and while we spend countless taxpayer dollars forcing the few that will bother going through the process to jump through flaming hoops - criminals can learn how to make homemade guns on Youtube. I'm not arguing that we "do nothing," but let's not forget truth in our desperate attempt to "do something." Also, many times the person being "trained" in these programs - take their legally owned firearm and do something awful with it anyway.

All but "mental illness" from your list of excuses are, exactly that: Excuses. There are plenty of people who suffer those things on a daily basis and never commit acts of violence. Evil is an adaptive art form, and it always finds a way to paint with blood.
 
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