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Proposal: A Gun in every household

Requring citizens to have the knowledge on how to safely handle and use automatic weapons is not an unreasonable demand, nor is it preventing them from having the guns in the first place.

I'm very pro gun myself. In order to have a responsible armed working class, they need to know how to use the bloody things. Its idealistic to suggest otherwise.

Yes you are clearly so "pro-gun" that you dont know how ridiculously hard and expensive it is to get an automatic weapon. :roll:
 
What utter nonsense. Violence is strongly linked with poverty. All the most crime-ridden cities in the world have massive poverty, and usually drug gangs.

You're confusing capitalism with "corruption."

I said poverty was linked to the violence of urban gangs, but there are much bigger psychological issues at play. Ones that you seem comfortable ignoring.
 
Guranteeing social services as long as one is A. Willing to work B. Is legitimately disabled will fix that problem.
Otherwise, those who don't contribute to society should not excpect society to contribute to them.

That would alleviate some of the issue, to be sure, but we're not really set up to operate that way at present -- it will take a big shift in our collective thinking if we're ever to get there.
 
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is a symbol of democracy, and it is our job to see it stays there"

Relaxing our gun laws and even encouraging gun ownership would do wonders to reduce the rate of firearm murders in this country, first by helping to eliminate the black market, and second, allowing these guns to be registered by responsible citizens with clean backround checks.

But this must also be a two-pronged approach. Mandatory rigourous training, saftey courses and strict backround checks must be enforced so we have a responsible well-armed population.
For political reasons this would be good, after all political power truly grows out of the barrel of a rifle.

However, what liberals don't seem to understand is that America doesnt have a gun problem; guns have an America problem. But part of fixing this problem is changing the way we deal with guns. Let the responsible, law-abiding citizens have their guns and make sure they get their training and proper evaluations.

But the bigger problem that leads to mass shootings, gun violence and gangs is the poverty, alienation, humiliation and mental illness caused largely by our precious capitalist system.

What part of "...shall not be infringed." do you not understand?
 
Requiring citizens to have a mandatory basic training course for a deadly weapon that requires great responsibility and maturity to handle is not "Curtailing rights".

What is the purpose of this training? Like civics, would it be taught in schools at no cost to the citizen?
 
Yes you are clearly so "pro-gun" that you dont know how ridiculously hard and expensive it is to get an automatic weapon. :roll:

I know very well how hard it is to get an automatic weapon in the states, especially WA where the liberals are cracking down on firearms. This is why I suggest relaxing our firearm laws.
 
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Is prevention the only type of infringement?

Knowing how to use, accurately shoot and safely operate your military grade firearm before you own it is not an infringement on rights, in the same way background checks are not an infringement on rights.

Free courses will be no detriment to literally anyone. I'd be happy to receive free shooting courses on the government's dime
 
Knowing how to use, accurately shoot and safely operate your military grade firearm before you own it is not an infringement on rights, in the same way background checks are not an infringement on rights.

Free courses will be no detriment to literally anyone. I'd be happy to receive free shooting courses on the government's dime

What's a military grade firearm, and why are those the only ones that would require training? Would requiring civics training prior to voting also not be an infringement on rights? Would either type of training require passing an actual test, and who would determine what is the right level of training and what determines sufficient competence? The same Democrats that would be in charge for the weapons training law to be passed?
 
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None of this would prevent you from owning a firearm.

The 2nd Amendment says nothing about preventing. It says infringe.

Prevent

to keep from occurring; avert; hinder:

Infringe

act so as to limit or undermine (something); encroach on
 
I definitely agree that all guns need to be registered, 100%.

since criminals cannot be punished for failure to register firearms, how is that going to happen
 
Yes, they can be punished. Through fines or jail time.

not for failing to register a firearm. You should actually learn the subject (Google Haynes v USA) 390 US 85, 1968
 
not for failing to register a firearm. You should actually learn the subject (Google Haynes v USA) 390 US 85, 1968

Thanks, Turtle,

I would like to see a project 0. Project 0 in getting and confiscating all gun and replacing them with smart guns implanted with tracking chips.

How do we address criminals? Start implanting microchips in criminals.
 
Requiring citizens to have a mandatory basic training course for a deadly weapon that requires great responsibility and maturity to handle is not "Curtailing rights".
As for voting, thats a very good question I do not have an answer for, but it should be our school's jobs in the first place to provide a basic bare bones explaination of politics.

Actually it is a means of curtailing rights.

"requiring citizens to demonstrate basic reading and writing skills in order to make an informed and responsible vote at the voting booth is certainly not curtailing rights".

That was the basis of certain jim crow laws that were designed to curtail voting rights of African americans.
 
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is a symbol of democracy, and it is our job to see it stays there"

Relaxing our gun laws and even encouraging gun ownership would do wonders to reduce the rate of firearm murders in this country, first by helping to eliminate the black market, and second, allowing these guns to be registered by responsible citizens with clean backround checks.

But this must also be a two-pronged approach. Mandatory rigourous training, saftey courses and strict backround checks must be enforced so we have a responsible well-armed population.
For political reasons this would be good, after all political power truly grows out of the barrel of a rifle.

However, what liberals don't seem to understand is that America doesnt have a gun problem; guns have an America problem. But part of fixing this problem is changing the way we deal with guns. Let the responsible, law-abiding citizens have their guns and make sure they get their training and proper evaluations.

But the bigger problem that leads to mass shootings, gun violence and gangs is the poverty, alienation, humiliation and mental illness caused largely by our precious capitalist system.

Maybe. But no one needs to have bump stocks and high capacity magazine clips. You have to draw the line somewhere, or we will be talking about a nuclear ordnance for every garage.
 
Any time you place restrictions on rights your are curtailing them regardless of the justification

That's not constitutional, even in the opinion of the most conservative members of the Supreme court. The right to arms, like every other right, has limits.

“Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited... It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose."
-Justice Antonin Scalia, opinion in famous District of Columbia v. Heller case
 
Maybe. But no one needs to have bump stocks and high capacity magazine clips. You have to draw the line somewhere, or we will be talking about a nuclear ordnance for every garage.

Why do you talk about what anyone needs as the basis for gun control laws? Only those with no real argument mention nuclear devices in a discussion on gun control. They are not in common use for lawful purposes.
 
Why do you talk about what anyone needs as the basis for gun control laws? Only those with no real argument mention nuclear devices in a discussion on gun control. They are not in common use for lawful purposes.

Neither are bump stocks with high capacity magazine clips.
 
That's not constitutional, even in the opinion of the most conservative members of the Supreme court. The right to arms, like every other right, has limits.

Those limits have been determined to be that "bearable arms" "in common use for lawful purposes" or having a “reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia” are protected by the Second Amendment.
 
Why do you talk about what anyone needs as the basis for gun control laws?

Because that is what chief Justice Antonin Scalia, writing the majority opinion of the supreme court interpreting the Constitution, said should be a basis for gun control laws.
 
Neither are bump stocks with high capacity magazine clips.

Really? Of the 10,000+ bump stock owners out there, only one owner has ever used one for homicide. High capacity magazines number in the hundreds of millions.
 
Because that is what chief Justice Antonin Scalia, writing the majority opinion of the supreme court interpreting the Constitution, said should be a basis for gun control laws.

Where is that needs based interpretation?

The Supreme Court held:

(1) The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Pp. 2–53.
(a) The Amendment’s prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause. The operative clause’s text and history demonstrate that it connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms. Pp. 2–22.
(b) The prefatory clause comports with the Court’s interpretation of the operative clause. The “militia” comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. The Antifederalists feared that the Federal Government would disarm the people in order to disable this citizens’ militia, enabling a politicized standing army or a select militia to rule. The response was to deny Congress power to abridge the ancient right of individuals to keep and bear arms, so that the ideal of a citizens’ militia would be preserved. Pp. 22–28.
(c) The Court’s interpretation is confirmed by analogous arms-bearing rights in state constitutions that preceded and immediately followed the Second Amendment. Pp. 28–30.
(d) The Second Amendment’s drafting history, while of dubious interpretive worth, reveals three state Second Amendment proposals that unequivocally referred to an individual right to bear arms. Pp. 30–32.
(e) Interpretation of the Second Amendment by scholars, courts and legislators, from immediately after its ratification through the late 19th century also supports the Court’s conclusion. Pp. 32–47.
(f) None of the Court’s precedents forecloses the Court’s interpretation. Neither United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U. S. 542, nor Presser v. Illinois, 116 U. S. 252, refutes the individual-rights interpretation. United States v. Miller, 307 U. S. 174, does not limit the right to keep and bear arms to militia purposes, but rather limits the type of weapon to which the right applies to those used by the militia, i.e., those in common use for lawful purposes.
(2) Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons. Pp. 54–56.
(3) The handgun ban and the trigger-lock requirement (as applied to self-defense) violate the Second Amendment. The District’s total ban on handgun possession in the home amounts to a prohibition on an entire class of “arms” that Americans overwhelmingly choose for the lawful purpose of self-defense. Under any of the standards of scrutiny the Court has applied to enumerated constitutional rights, this prohibition – in the place where the importance of the lawful defense of self, family, and property is most acute – would fail constitutional muster. Similarly, the requirement that any lawful firearm in the home be disassembled or bound by a trigger lock makes it impossible for citizens to use arms for the core lawful purpose of self-defense and is hence unconstitutional. Because Heller conceded at oral argument that the D. C. licensing law is permissible if it is not enforced arbitrarily and capriciously, the Court assumes that a license will satisfy his prayer for relief and does not address the licensing requirement. Assuming he is not disqualified from exercising Second Amendment rights, the District must permit Heller to register his handgun and must issue him a license to carry it in the home. Pp. 56–64.
 
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