How do you feel about gun accessories

RF667799 said:

My ears are why I keep two "bedside" pistols. One is a .45ACP but there's also a .22 if it looks like that would suit the problem.

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At short range, a .22 can cause more damage than a .45. A .45 can pass through a target, a standard velocity .22 will penetrate and tumble inside the target.

Some of our tactical men in Iraq were issued Ruger 10/22's, with suppressors and bipods, Nightforce NXS 5.5-22×56's, expected range 250-300 yards. "Crowd Control" without the usually lethal results and more impact than rubber rounds, was the theory. Also good for taking out troublesome dogs and lights. After the fact, it was found the targets were all permanently downed. Our men aimed at the abdomen, and the .22 rounds turned them into hamburger. Shooting order code became "I'll have a quarter pounder." .22 long rifles have been a favored assassin's weapon since WWI, used during WWII, Korea, Vietnam, both times in Iraq, and Afghanistan today. The Israelis and others still use them proficiently.

Cabela's still carries Ruger 10/22's, often refurbished. Plenty of others to choose from. Damned woodchucks.

There's a large assortment of quality and inexpensive .22 pistols available in the secondary market. Always popular for teaching, target and varmint shooting.

Gaius46 said:

Can I ask why the suppressor? I've never used one but it seems to be large enough to make the unwieldy in close quarters.

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The main reason, as mentioned by others here, is for hearing protection. When you are woken by your alarm, and seconds count you are not going to have time to put ear pugs in all your love ones ears. A suppressed hand gun far less unwieldy than say an AR15, or a shot gun.

OldFatGuy said:

At short range, a .22 can cause more damage than a .45. A .45 can pass through a target, a standard velocity .22 will penetrate and tumble inside the target.

Some of our tactical men in Iraq were issued Ruger 10/22's, with suppressors and bipods, Nightforce NXS 5.5-22×56's, expected range 250-300 yards. "Crowd Control" without the usually lethal results and more impact than rubber rounds, was the theory. Also good for taking out troublesome dogs and lights. After the fact, it was found the targets were all permanently downed. Our men aimed at the abdomen, and the .22 rounds turned them into hamburger. Shooting order code became "I'll have a quarter pounder." .22 long rifles have been a favored assassin's weapon since WWI, used during WWII, Korea, Vietnam, both times in Iraq, and Afghanistan today. The Israelis and others still use them proficiently.

Cabela's still carries Ruger 10/22's, often refurbished. Plenty of others to choose from. Damned woodchucks.

There's a large assortment of quality and inexpensive .22 pistols available in the secondary market. Always popular for teaching, target and varmint shooting.

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Do you have some evidence to back up you claim or is this just another of your war stories.

TurtleDude said:

exactly-identifying targets in a home is a key requirement. I am not a fan of LASERS though except for some very limited applications

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Always felt that lasers were a "give your position away". Gotta go with a nice blinding light.

VanceMack said:

Not to be disagreeable...but 1, unless you are pointing it out they arent likely to see the laser and 2, its highly unlikely you are going to be able to train a laser on their eyes to blind someone. Lasers really have one purpose...to put your weapon on center mass.

And BTW...if anyone was wondering as to one of the major advantages of a good tactical flashlight...try shooting your weapon in a dark environment and then try to see after the muzzle flash.

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Mine is a green laser and I have tested it in the dark. It illuminates the area I am aiming at in much the way a flashlight does but not enough to mess up my own night vision. It isn’t just a dot in the dark. Maybe red lasers are different. And I have pointed it at myself (using a mirror) and it most definitely blinds me. By blind I mean ruining my night vision.It is quite obvious a laser sight is being pointed at me.

I am sure a flashlight accessory would work just as well but I like the stream lined nature of the laser built into the gun. I simply grab the handle and it turns on.

braindrain said:

Do you have some evidence to back up you claim or is this just another of your war stories.

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Look up both, the damage cause by .22's compared to larger calibers, and the use of .22 sniper rifles. You have fingers. Fingers can travel. Or troll someone else.

Buh-bye.

The .22 I keep handy is a Bersa. I had one years ago that was SA, this one is DA. Both reliable, cost effective pistols. The old SA one I had would feed anything without a hitch. The newer DA one I have now doesn't like some lighter bullets and will stovepipe about once per magazine but so long as I stay away from those particular rounds it runs flawlessly. I think Bersas are very underestimated and overlooked. If I were going to carry concealed I would probably be looking at the same version in .380.

OldFatGuy said:

Look up both, the damage cause by .22's compared to larger calibers, and the use of .22 sniper rifles. You have fingers. Fingers can travel. Or troll someone else.

Buh-bye.

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Trolls!

Better get more guns...

RF667799 said:

The .22 I keep handy is a Bersa. I had one years ago that was SA, this one is DA. Both reliable, cost effective pistols. The old SA one I had would feed anything without a hitch. The newer DA one I have now doesn't like some lighter bullets and will stovepipe about once per magazine but so long as I stay away from those particular rounds it runs flawlessly. I think Bersas are very underestimated and overlooked. If I were going to carry concealed I would probably be looking at the same version in .380.

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I had a Bersa PPK look a like. It was reliable and very accurate. Only issue I had was in a draw a shoot situation my hand placement caused it to bite. Traded it in on a guitar

Chillfolks said:

I had a Bersa PPK look a like. It was reliable and very accurate. Only issue I had was in a draw a shoot situation my hand placement caused it to bite. Traded it in on a guitar

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That's what I have. Bersa Thunder. The older one I had, had a different designation. Like I said, it was a SA. I've never had a problem with hammer bite.

This is my perimeter defense rifle if I have to go outside the main building
Its a Smith and Wesson rifle, with a Gen3+ military NVD and a Forward Mounted Eotech holographic sight. The NVD is quick detach for use in sunlight. the Eotech is zeroed at 100M

TurtleDude said:

This is my perimeter defense rifle if I have to go outside the main building
Its a Smith and Wesson rifle, with a Gen3+ military NVD and a Forward Mounted Eotech holographic sight. The NVD is quick detach for use in sunlight. the Eotech is zeroed at 100M

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Do you find it changes zero much or at all taking sights on and off the rail?

RF667799 said:

Do you find it changes zero much or at all taking sights on and off the rail?

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that's an excellent question and while that NVD has a sighting reticle I choose not to use it for TWO reasons

1) its not as easy to use as the EOTECH. now I don't ever take the EOTECH on and off the rifle; the NVD merely allows me to see the target and the red reticle of the EOTECH on the target. taking the NVD on and off the rifle does not change the zero for the actual gunsight (the forward holographic sight)

2) zeroing the reticle of a NVD is a pain in the ass. I don't have a 100M range that I can shoot in the dark to zero it. The EOTECH is easy to use on an outdoor range

OldFatGuy said:

Look up both, the damage cause by .22's compared to larger calibers, and the use of .22 sniper rifles. You have fingers. Fingers can travel. Or troll someone else.

Buh-bye.

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I wasn’t talking about the damage done by bullets. I was expressing doubt over your little war story of US troops using 10/22s in Iraq.. Something it’s rather obvious you can’t provide evidence for.

Learn to read

TurtleDude said:

that's an excellent question and while that NVD has a sighting reticle I choose not to use it for TWO reasons

1) its not as easy to use as the EOTECH. now I don't ever take the EOTECH on and off the rifle; the NVD merely allows me to see the target and the red reticle of the EOTECH on the target. taking the NVD on and off the rifle does not change the zero for the actual gunsight (the forward holographic sight)

2) zeroing the reticle of a NVD is a pain in the ass. I don't have a 100M range that I can shoot in the dark to zero it. The EOTECH is easy to use on an outdoor range

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Okay, I didn't even consider that with that setup you could see the reticle of the other sight and not having to remove the EOTECH means not even having to worry about impacting the zero. Nice setup.

RF667799 said:

Okay, I didn't even consider that with that setup you could see the reticle of the other sight and not having to remove the EOTECH means not even having to worry about impacting the zero. Nice setup.

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some of the red dot/holographic sights are NV Compatible meaning at the lowest setting they are so low that they don't "bloom out" the NVD. I live on small farm but I cannot crank off 556 rounds here and the two outdoor ranges I belong to don't allow or have the facility for shooting in darkness on the rifle range . so this is a better way to get a good zero and if I need to use the rifle in broad daylight I have that Eotech ready to go

OldFatGuy said:

At short range, a .22 can cause more damage than a .45. A .45 can pass through a target, a standard velocity .22 will penetrate and tumble inside the target.

Some of our tactical men in Iraq were issued Ruger 10/22's, with suppressors and bipods, Nightforce NXS 5.5-22×56's, expected range 250-300 yards. "Crowd Control" without the usually lethal results and more impact than rubber rounds, was the theory. Also good for taking out troublesome dogs and lights. After the fact, it was found the targets were all permanently downed. Our men aimed at the abdomen, and the .22 rounds turned them into hamburger. Shooting order code became "I'll have a quarter pounder." .22 long rifles have been a favored assassin's weapon since WWI, used during WWII, Korea, Vietnam, both times in Iraq, and Afghanistan today. The Israelis and others still use them proficiently.

Cabela's still carries Ruger 10/22's, often refurbished. Plenty of others to choose from. Damned woodchucks.

There's a large assortment of quality and inexpensive .22 pistols available in the secondary market. Always popular for teaching, target and varmint shooting.

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I have never seen american forces even special forces issued 22 lr rifles. I have seen sf issued suppressed 22lr pistols, but not rifles, I know israel issues them but never seen an american force have them. I used to do a lot of details at the sf complex in afghanistan, they had crossbows there, when I asked them why they just said incase they need them though no one in that complex had ever used one on a mission. They had all sorts of weapons there, but could not see 22 rifles, I had seen ak type rifles, old milsurp bolt actions, crossbows, stun guns, multiple types of handguns and rifles, including supressed 22lr pistols, but never 22 rifles let alone 10/22's.

Lursa said:

Very generous!

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Santa should be delivering it Dec 21st, so his elves told me.
I hope you never need to use it, but glad you will have it if your do.
Just do a kindness to another stranger and we can keep the wheel of kindness turning.

PleasantValley said:

Santa should be delivering it Dec 21st, so his elves told me.
I hope you never need to use it, but glad you will have it if your do.
Just do a kindness to another stranger and we can keep the wheel of kindness turning.

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Looking forward to it!

And indeed I will. I like to think I do so in general when opportunity presents itself but I will try to be more observant this Christmas season.

To the OP..... Accessories should aid the shooter to be more accurate/precise. In addition each human has different body mechanics so accessorizing a weapon to fit the individual shooter can allow them to me more effective. This is including safety and background accuracy. In my Mind though.... I do see a point when accessories either over compensate or create a greater issue than its value. So its give an take.

So build for purpose, not for looks. I have 4 different setups, 16" M4 light (6lbs), 18 SPR, 20" DMR, 18" 22LR 10/22

the M4 is the go to everyday, gotta grab something and run. built to be light and nimble, no frills, simple. shoots like a stock rifle, replace with stock parts.....if the world went to you know what...its the go to.

SPR, is for a defensive perimeter, Variable 1-6x, meant to provide short to medium range cover and precision over watch.

DMR is non functional but a "trophy" setup but has the Medium to long range ability 4x14 FFP optics. reality says though there is nothing worth shooting @ 500+ yards nor potentially exposing cover by audible report, BUT its still nice to have...if REALLY REALLY needed

The Final is the 10/22. this is the "infrastructure is knocked out" hunting and self preservation weapon, Enough to hunt for dinner/meals, enough for protection and the ammo per weight and packing is worth its weight in gold......7 mags of 223/556 (210 rounds) is like 1 bucket of 1400 Golden Bullet 22LR. As they say what is the result of a well placed shot from a 22LR vs 9mm vs 223/5.56 vs 308 vs .50bmg? exactly the same. Under stress to do head shots at distance over 100 yards is a Video games.... get back to reality... accuracy for any common rifle round is 200 yards max....anything after is luck......

beerftw said:

I have never seen american forces even special forces issued 22 lr rifles. I have seen sf issued suppressed 22lr pistols, but not rifles, I know israel issues them but never seen an american force have them. I used to do a lot of details at the sf complex in afghanistan, they had crossbows there, when I asked them why they just said incase they need them though no one in that complex had ever used one on a mission. They had all sorts of weapons there, but could not see 22 rifles, I had seen ak type rifles, old milsurp bolt actions, crossbows, stun guns, multiple types of handguns and rifles, including supressed 22lr pistols, but never 22 rifles let alone 10/22's.

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The reason you have never seen it is because he just made that little story up. He seems to do that quite a bit.

braindrain said:

The reason you have never seen it is because he just made that little story up. He seems to do that quite a bit.

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I was wondering about that? I read that too...and scratched my head.... I was in the sandbox from 2004-2006, specialized and had access to the full standard Army Armory, No 22lr on the sheets or in the armory.

I worked next to some SOF guys and never once heard or saw 22lrs LOL.

But to give the the guy credit, Mission tempo and ops would dictate choice of firearm... so maybe he not talking about current conflicts or some really under ground black ops crap......


In the sandbox though we dealt with temperature changes, elevation changes, the worst was "bad guys" high as a kite..... a full mag of 9mm was a joke when the guy was doped up... what is 22lr going to do?

22lr not stabilizing well either.... would be greatly affected by elevation, humidity, temperature..... so with SOF guys and even the normal run of the mill grunts..... what is match 22lr going to do? You need something well designed for those types of environments....match 10/22 can only push out 1moa @ 100 yards..... what are we trying to do with 22LR?

Exactice said:

I was wondering about that? I read that too...and scratched my head.... I was in the sandbox from 2004-2006, specialized and had access to the full standard Army Armory, No 22lr on the sheets or in the armory.

I worked next to some SOF guys and never once heard or saw 22lrs LOL.

But to give the the guy credit, Mission tempo and ops would dictate choice of firearm... so maybe he not talking about current conflicts or some really under ground black ops crap......


In the sandbox though we dealt with temperature changes, elevation changes, the worst was "bad guys" high as a kite..... a full mag of 9mm was a joke when the guy was doped up... what is 22lr going to do?

22lr not stabilizing well either.... would be greatly affected by elevation, humidity, temperature..... so with SOF guys and even the normal run of the mill grunts..... what is match 22lr going to do? You need something well designed for those types of environments....match 10/22 can only push out 1moa @ 100 yards..... what are we trying to do with 22LR?

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Been in SOF for over a decade and counting. Multiple trips to Iraq, Afghanistan as well as numerous other countries. Have worked with every single SOF organization in the US military at one point or another. Have a number of friends I keep in regular contact from pretty much every one.
Absolutely nothing I have ever seen leads me to believe a word he is saying. Hell you can’t even find a reference to it on the web.

The odds of some supposed retired NYC cop with zero military experience knowing the weapons some super secret SOF guys were carrying that no one else knows about are about as good as you winning the lottery two times back to back.

In other words he is full of ****.

braindrain said:

Been in SOF for over a decade and counting. Multiple trips to Iraq, Afghanistan as well as numerous other countries. Have worked with every single SOF organization in the US military at one point or another. Have a number of friends I keep in regular contact from pretty much every one.
Absolutely nothing I have ever seen leads me to believe a word he is saying. Hell you can’t even find a reference to it on the web.

The odds of some supposed retired NYC cop with zero military experience knowing the weapons some super secret SOF guys were carrying that no one else knows about are about as good as you winning the lottery two times back to back.

In other words he is full of ****.

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I have seen reports of suppressed .22lr pistols (Mk22) used in Vietnam by SOF. I have also seen internet refrences of Israeli useing 10/22 rifles for "riot control".

BretJ said:

I have seen reports of suppressed .22lr pistols (Mk22) used in Vietnam by SOF. I have also seen internet refrences of Israeli useing 10/22 rifles for "riot control".

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Yeah I know US SOF used 22s in the past. It was either at the SF muesem at Bragg or at our 1st Group Regimental Mess that they had a demilled one. And I have seen the Israelis use them sometimes. Though never heard of them being used for riot control.

Neither of which has any bearing to their being used in Iraq by US Forces like our little tall tale teller tried to claim.