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What do you consider armor piercing

beerftw

beerftw

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Long story short this came up in another thread, but what do you all consider armor piercing? The atf defines it as handgun ammunition with certain features, some people consider it any ammo that can pierce armor.

For me armor piercing is ammo designed specifically to pierce armor, I do not consider hunting rounds armor piercing even though they can pierce most armor, as the rounds were never designed as such but rather most armor was designed for handgun rounds not rifle rounds.
 
Armor piercing bullets are a specifically designed military bullet and has no reasonable use in the hands of civilians. Generally they are tungsten carbide with a copper jacket. Not your best deer round.
 
chuckiechan said:
Armor piercing bullets are a specifically designed military bullet and has no reasonable use in the hands of civilians. Generally they are tungsten carbide with a copper jacket. Not your best deer round.
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They most certainly have a use in a militia.
 
technically it allows a given caliber to defeat armor that normally will survive hits from that caliber. a Level IIA vest is designed to survive at least one hit in a given spot by most common handgun rounds (9mm, 380, 38 special, 40 SW) an armor piercing 9mm bullet-like a KTW round-allows a 9mm-due either to exceptionally hardened rounds or teflon coating (allowing the round to slip through woven spectra-the teflon doesn't work against ceramic plate though).

now a 223 rifle round of any NORMAL configuration will blow right through a Level IIA vest. that doesn't make 223 or the military equivalent 556 NATO round armor piercing per se. but lots of anti gunners claim that any cartridge that defeats lower level vests are "armor piercing".
 
chuckiechan said:
Armor piercing bullets are a specifically designed military bullet and has no reasonable use in the hands of civilians. Generally they are tungsten carbide with a copper jacket. Not your best deer round.
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I agree with your description. As far as it not having any use, my father used surplus black-tipped AP 30-06 rounds for target practice in an M-1 Garand. (He loaded his own ammo for competitive matches or used military-issued national match ammo, using a Winchester Model 70 target rifle, but for just blowing off rounds at 200 and 600-yard paper targets it was a cheap alternative.) As far as I know, no one at that time ever contemplated shooting anyone with it, and no one was driving around in tanks or armored vehicles anyway. And if someone really wanted to defeat body armor, a standard FMJ boattail would have done nicely. So from that standpoint the distinction between an "armor piecing round" and a steel-cored bullet is kind of stupid, IMHO.
 
chuckiechan said:
Armor piercing bullets are a specifically designed military bullet and has no reasonable use in the hands of civilians. Generally they are tungsten carbide with a copper jacket. Not your best deer round.
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Why does every gun controller have the notion that the second amendment is about need? Nobody needs a Lamborghini. Nobody needs 20 pairs of shoes. Nobody needs to post on online forums.
 
Maccabee said:
Why does every gun controller have the notion that the second amendment is about need? Nobody needs a Lamborghini. Nobody needs 20 pairs of shoes. Nobody needs to post on online forums.
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Nobody needs the news media. :/
 
Maccabee said:
Why does every gun controller have the notion that the second amendment is about need? Nobody needs a Lamborghini. Nobody needs 20 pairs of shoes. Nobody needs to post on online forums.
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I said "no reasonable use". Not need. Would you actually reload with armor piercing bullets if you could get them - I'm sure they aren't cheap.
 
Maccabee said:
Why does every gun controller have the notion that the second amendment is about need? Nobody needs a Lamborghini. Nobody needs 20 pairs of shoes. Nobody needs to post on online forums.
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Maybe it is about need. Maybe we'll need to start a second revolution in order to purge the country of idiots.
 
beerftw said:
Long story short this came up in another thread, but what do you all consider armor piercing? The atf defines it as handgun ammunition with certain features, some people consider it any ammo that can pierce armor.

For me armor piercing is ammo designed specifically to pierce armor, I do not consider hunting rounds armor piercing even though they can pierce most armor, as the rounds were never designed as such but rather most armor was designed for handgun rounds not rifle rounds.
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My charm and wit. :pimpdaddy:



hint: you have no idea what you are talking about.
 
chuckiechan said:
I said "no reasonable use". Not need. Would you actually reload with armor piercing bullets if you could get them - I'm sure they aren't cheap.
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I don't reload at the moment but I may buy some just to have around.
 
chuckiechan said:
I said "no reasonable use". Not need. Would you actually reload with armor piercing bullets if you could get them - I'm sure they aren't cheap.
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"No reasonable use"?

How about "preventing tyranny in ****ing government"?
 
chuckiechan said:
I said "no reasonable use". Not need. Would you actually reload with armor piercing bullets if you could get them - I'm sure they aren't cheap.
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No, I would not, because shooting holes in someone's steel will get you kicked out of the match, and cost you some money, too. I only speak for myself.
 
TurtleDude said:
technically it allows a given caliber to defeat armor that normally will survive hits from that caliber. a Level IIA vest is designed to survive at least one hit in a given spot by most common handgun rounds (9mm, 380, 38 special, 40 SW) an armor piercing 9mm bullet-like a KTW round-allows a 9mm-due either to exceptionally hardened rounds or teflon coating (allowing the round to slip through woven spectra-the teflon doesn't work against ceramic plate though).

now a 223 rifle round of any NORMAL configuration will blow right through a Level IIA vest. that doesn't make 223 or the military equivalent 556 NATO round armor piercing per se. but lots of anti gunners claim that any cartridge that defeats lower level vests are "armor piercing".
Click to expand...

Anti gun people claim they are armor piercing, but even the army does not label green tips as armor piercing. If I remember correct the military usually uses black tip as it's designator for armor piercing, though there are other ap tips, straight ap is black. The green tips were steel core, and were designed for better energy when moving through walls and obstructions, but were made of a soft steel for the core. Black tips were made for armor piercing, and usually used a material much stronger than soft steel as a core.

I remember when my brother had his mosin with a bunch of steel core russian surplus, we tested it on many things, it delivered greater energy through things like plywood but deformed at the same rate as fmj rounds in soft materials like clay, and in steel plates there was no difference in penetration, it basically just allowed it to keep energy a little longer before deforming against certain things like wood or other non hard materials.
 
What do you consider armor piercing
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I think the appropriate companion question here should be "What do you consider armor"?

A car door?

LA Phone books taped together?

DOJ Level IV?
 
Polar Bum said:
I think the appropriate companion question here should be "What do you consider armor"?

A car door?

LA Phone books taped together?

DOJ Level IV?
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That would be a good question, as medielval armor could stop matchlock and flintlock shots, but would fail at even semi modern rounds. Military and police have multiple balistic armor ratings, then there is the flak jacket which is not a bullet resistant armor at all but rather a shrapnel resistant armor, then you have under armor which won't stop crap because they are clothing, herpes can still infect with a condom, so I guess that makes it an armor piecing std.
 
120mm anti-tank rounds.
 
Goshin said:
120mm anti-tank rounds.
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shaped charges (I bet you are maybe one of about 20 people on this board who knows how a shaped charge works and how "reactive armor" was designed to defeat it)
 
TurtleDude said:
shaped charges (I bet you are maybe one of about 20 people on this board who knows how a shaped charge works and how "reactive armor" was designed to defeat it)
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I had great fun with shape charges, both 15 and 40 lb versions.
 
TurtleDude said:
shaped charges (I bet you are maybe one of about 20 people on this board who knows how a shaped charge works and how "reactive armor" was designed to defeat it)
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HESH may not be AP, but it can make for a bad day.
 
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