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Why do liberals only care about lives lost via firearms? [W:106]

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Uh, hello? There are plenty of instances of left-of-center people pushing for all sorts of health and safety improvements, such as:

• getting kids and adults to eat better
• taxing sodas, cigarettes and alcohol in order to reduce consumption
• banning transfats
• forcing certain types of restaurants to provide nutritional information, in some cases right on the menu
• regulating alcohol in numerous ways
• enforcing work safety regulations
• reducing pollution
• requiring building codes
• regulating automobile safety, including requiring people to wear seat belts
• all sorts of public campaigns to combat obesity, diabetes, to get exercise, etc etc

In fact, the right constantly complains that the left is too regulation-happy, and fosters a nanny state. The idea that the left isn't doing things to protect people's health is ludicrous.



I care. I don't want healthy people to commit suicide. Wow, I must really not care, because I say I care! Wait, what...?



Good news, everyone! Regulating firearms is fully Constitutional, including banning specific types of firearms (like assault rifles), restricting magazine sizes, heavily restricting concealed carry, requiring background checks, barring specific classes of people from owning firearms, waiting periods and more. Even Scalia understood that. What is not Constitutional is a total ban on all firearms.

this and those who spew this nonsense, demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of how the second amendment should work. using this nonsensical approach, if "assault rifles" were the only available firearms, the federal government couldn't ban them but when other weapons become available, suddenly the federal government gains a power to so ban.
 
this and those who spew this nonsense, demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of how the second amendment should work. using this nonsensical approach, if "assault rifles" were the only available firearms, the federal government couldn't ban them but when other weapons become available, suddenly the federal government gains a power to so ban.

The Left believes that they can legislate whatever the heck they want, on a federal level, Article 1 Section 8 and Article 5 be damned...
 
The Left believes that they can legislate whatever the heck they want, on a federal level, Article 1 Section 8 and Article 5 be damned...

if you get one to honestly answer-they believe that we can have only what congress says we can and there really is no right whatsoever
 
The Left believes that they can legislate whatever the heck they want, on a federal level, Article 1 Section 8 and Article 5 be damned...
There are certainly some on the left who want an even stronger central government. However, there are also many on the right who want federal legislation, regardless of restrictions imposed by the Constitution. They want to prevent states and individuals from allowing same-sex marriage; they want the federal government to ban marijuana and other drugs, even when individual states decriminalize those substances; they want to outlaw abortion on a federal level; they frequently want to impose theocratic functions, despite the 1st Amendment; they want to restrict speech, despite the 1st Amendment; the list goes on. And of course, they routinely decry SCOTUS rulings that they don't agree with -- even though the SCOTUS has final say on whether a law is, or is not, Constitutional.

That said, the vast majority on the left realizes that barring all firearm ownership is not Constitutional. What is Constitutional, as I said, is state and federal laws regulating firearms. Keep in mind that after Heller, the courts have heard over 1000 challenges to existing laws, and 94% of those laws were upheld.

Those federal firearm laws, we should add, have never been found to be in violation of Article 1 Section 8. Nor does anything about Article 5 say that "the federal government cannot pass firearm laws." Just FYI.
 
The Left believes that they can legislate whatever the heck they want, on a federal level, Article 1 Section 8 and Article 5 be damned...

Scotus makes the call.....not you
 
There are certainly some on the left who want an even stronger central government. However, there are also many on the right who want federal legislation, regardless of restrictions imposed by the Constitution. They want to prevent states and individuals from allowing same-sex marriage; they want the federal government to ban marijuana and other drugs, even when individual states decriminalize those substances; they want to outlaw abortion on a federal level; they frequently want to impose theocratic functions, despite the 1st Amendment; they want to restrict speech, despite the 1st Amendment; the list goes on.
I am not going to defend people on the right who want to go against the Constitution. They are just as guilty, especially the Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan, John McCain, etc. types who are pure RINOs... I just find that this push against the Constitution and it's literal text comes more-so from the left side of the political spectrum...

And of course, they routinely decry SCOTUS rulings that they don't agree with -- even though the SCOTUS has final say on whether a law is, or is not, Constitutional.
The problem is that SCOTUS doesn't follow the literal text of the Constitution. They twist and contort things to fit their political biases. (commerce clause, general welfare clause, supremacy clause, etc.) and what you get as a result of that is nine people in robes controlling the whole country, having more power than any of the other branches of government, even though all the branches are supposed to keep each other's power in balance.

Also what people gloss over, even though it is an extremely important fact, is that the STATES were the creators of the Constitution and the federal government, and whatever powers the States did not specifically grant to the federal government via the Constitution still remain with the STATES.

Those federal firearm laws, we should add, have never been found to be in violation of Article 1 Section 8. Nor does anything about Article 5 say that "the federal government cannot pass firearm laws." Just FYI.
Where in Article 1 Section 8 is the power for the federal government to legislate on firearms? And Article 5 is concerning amending the Constitution. As long as that process is followed, it can be amended in any way. My point is that if the law making powers aren't found in Article 1 Section 8, then there is an Article 5 process to amend the Constitution to grant Congress those law making powers.
 
That's what SCOTUS says, and what you are parroting, not what the Constitution says...

That is your opinion. Which has no legal weight at all
 
I am. And many americans feel like I do

While you may feel that way, I don't think for a second that you nor many Americans would do either to a child.
 
"Ya gotta do this, ya gotta do that, ya gotta do it all... or you're a hypocrite!!"

Stupid scumbaggery.

People can be involved in their interests and not other things. Your standard of legitimacy is BS. It's no better than "can't be pro life without being vegetarian".

It's low level, rube oriented, moronic political rhetoric. That's what you've bought into and are pushing. Have some self respect.

How is it lacking self-respect to note people who are trying to roll back if not overturn the 2nd Amendment have moral consistency issues?

You said nothing to rebut what I said.

If you aren't willing to put down your bottle, don't expect me to give up rights.

Have you any self-respect?
 
And yet, leftists have not turned a blind eye to alcohol. We already regulate it, quite extensively.

We already regulate firearms quite extensively.

That's because we would be too busy suggesting that we should apply greater scrutiny to pilots who have too many drinks before reporting for work. As it stands, there are already strict laws about pilots and co-pilots consuming alcohol before or during a flight, and flight crews watch for signs of intoxication. The result is that there are several instances where pilots were pulled from the flight, and arrested, before takeoff.

Right, thus proving my point: The focus would be about the behavior of the one doing the thing with the alcohol, not the alcohol itself, unlike firearms. The fixation is heavily on the firearm.


I don't take pseudo-moral talking points from people who are ignorant of basic facts, or who don't realize that their own fantastical hypotheticals are not real.

People do not, in fact, lose their moral standing because they have a beer every now and then. Or a glass of wine for dinner. Or even pound vodka during the weekend.

And yet again, if alcohol is so evil, then what are YOU doing about it?

And firearms owners do not lose their moral standing - or their rights - because someone else abused a gun. Nor should our rights be brought up to discussion because of what someone else does.

If you can understand that about alcohol, then it should be a non-starter for firearms.
 
No but I saw the movie. LOL. I probably read it before you were born

No, you're a teenager living at home.

Adults don't end every post with "LOL." That's a very teenaged habit.
 
How is it lacking self-respect to note people who are trying to roll back if not overturn the 2nd Amendment have moral consistency issues?

You said nothing to rebut what I said.

If you aren't willing to put down your bottle, don't expect me to give up rights.

Have you any self-respect?

I'm very pro gun. I rarely have a drink.

Your argument herein is garbage. Political swill. Moronic rhetoric pretending someone must be involved in whatever issue you choose for them or they're a hypocrite.

People get involved in issues. That does not mean they need to be involved in every possible tangent. Pretending they must is so stupid it's hard to believe anyone goes for it.

One can be pro life without being vegetarian. One can be anti gun without being anti drinking. Believing otherwise is so stupid it's unbelievable.

You hurt the pro gun movement with this garbage.
 
I'm very pro gun. I rarely have a drink.

Your argument herein is garbage. Political swill. Moronic rhetoric pretending someone must be involved in whatever issue you choose for them or they're a hypocrite.

People get involved in issues. That does not mean they need to be involved in every possible tangent. Pretending they must is so stupid it's hard to believe anyone goes for it.

One can be pro life without being vegetarian. One can be anti gun without being anti drinking. Believing otherwise is so stupid it's unbelievable.

You hurt the pro gun movement with this garbage.

How does pointing out faux moral outrage hurt anything? It shows that people aren't being honest about the "saving lives" crap. These are the same types of people that go to the cocktail lounge and booze their brains out while bitching about the NRA.
 
How does pointing out faux moral outrage hurt anything? It shows that people aren't being honest about the "saving lives" crap. These are the same types of people that go to the cocktail lounge and booze their brains out while bitching about the NRA.

So to be pro life one must be a vegetarian? Otherwise, hypocrite and faux outrage?

You really don't get it, do you. No one can be involved with every tangent of every subject they're interested in. You can't force people to be interested in a tangent, and you can't hold them accountable because they don't take up a cause of your choice.
 
I am not going to defend people on the right who want to go against the Constitution. They are just as guilty, especially the Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan, John McCain, etc. types who are pure RINOs... I just find that this push against the Constitution and it's literal text comes more-so from the left side of the political spectrum...
It doesn't. That's just an American conceit, used by all sides, that "The Constitution has my back." Even when it doesn't.


The problem is that SCOTUS doesn't follow the literal text of the Constitution.
Yes, I'm upset about the way Scalia twisted the Constitution in Heller, too. But that's just how it goes sometimes.

The reality is that there is no one single "literal" way to interpret the Constitution. While several sections are easy to read (e.g. no one has any questions over the length of the President's term), many of its provisions are deliberately left open (what constitutes "cruel and unusual punishment"?) with the expectation that those aspects would change over time. In other cases, the literal meaning is ignored by those who proclaim to be reading it "literally." And of course, many of those who proclaim to be honoring the text often end up butchering it (notably Thomas).


They twist and contort things to fit their political biases. (commerce clause, general welfare clause, supremacy clause, etc.) and what you get as a result of that is nine people in robes controlling the whole country....
That's not even remotely correct.

The SCOTUS can't pass laws. It doesn't write legislation, only Congress can do that. It has no enforcement powers, only the Executive branch does. It can't appoint its own members. It can't kick one of its own members off the Court. It can only determine if legislation put before it is, or is not, Constitutional.


Also what people gloss over, even though it is an extremely important fact, is that the STATES were the creators of the Constitution and the federal government, and whatever powers the States did not specifically grant to the federal government via the Constitution still remain with the STATES.
Also what people gloss over is that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land; that it was written because the STATES had too much power in the Articles of Confederation, and that the "strong state" approach failed almost immediately; and have no understanding of complex legal concepts like incorporation.


Where in Article 1 Section 8 is the power for the federal government to legislate on firearms?
It's from the Commerce Clause and the Taxing Power. This has been reviewed extensively by the courts, and it's rare that the federal legislature has actually been found to overstep its bounds. We also know that the ratifiers of the Bill of Rights expected the federal government to legislate firearms, as noted by the text of the 2nd Amendment.

And no, the "literal text" tells us nothing about the limits anyone intended to put on the Commerce Clause or Taxing Power. The did not look into a crystal ball, to see exactly what America would be like in the 20th or 21st century, and decide "oh that's how should interpret it." No one put Madison and Jefferson in a time machine, zoomed them forward to the 1930s, asked them if United States vs Miller was decided correctly, sent them back to the late 18th Century, and asked them to write an explanatory essay on the precise limits of that power. There is also no indication they wanted millions of people to be slaves to the opinions of a handful of long-dead politicians.

Nor is it even clear whose opinions, among those early politicians, is the "literal" one. Was it Congress? They disagreed with each other, about critical positions, from Day One. Was it the state politicians, who ratified the Constitution and the BoR? Was it the voters in those states, who may have advocated for or against it, or didn't care? And how did later amendments, (particularly 14th, 15 and 18th), change our interpretation and the role of federal government?

It's a similar issue, oddly enough, with interpreting documents like the New Testament in "literal" terms -- when the interpreters do anything but. They ignore inconvenient historical contexts; they have no interest in recognizing the diversity of opinions in the document itself; they ignore how social changes over time affect today's interpretations of an old document; and people point to it not to discover what it says, but to command control over what it says.
 
Let me know when personal responsibility becomes an admirable character trait on your side of the pond...

Enjoy your beer as another child is beat to death by their drunken parent

Ditto my previous response
 
How does pointing out faux moral outrage hurt anything? It shows that people aren't being honest about the "saving lives" crap. These are the same types of people that go to the cocktail lounge and booze their brains out while bitching about the NRA.

Until your society stops seeing gun violence as entertainment then nothing will ever change. BTW more than 80% of Hollywoods output involves gunplay in one form or another so don't expect change any time soon :(

Unfortunately there are a large number of Rambos and Dirty Harry wannabees out there as your Latest Las Vegas shooter illustrates

Trust me when I say this guys record of 58 fatalities won't stand for very long and still your society won't care
 
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We already regulate firearms quite extensively.
And some would say we do not regulate them enough, both via enforcement and insufficient laws.


Right, thus proving my point: The focus would be about the behavior of the one doing the thing with the alcohol, not the alcohol itself, unlike firearms. The fixation is heavily on the firearm.
...no, the point is that we already have lots of laws designed to prevent just such a disaster, and there isn't much we can do to increase compliance. Perhaps the only thing we could do is require pilots to take a breathalyzer before boarding the plane. That's a small change, and I seriously doubt many leftists would object to it. If anything, conservatives are just as likely to object, on the basis that it's another onerous regulation that costs businesses time and money, and does nothing to improve public safety.


And firearms owners do not lose their moral standing - or their rights - because someone else abused a gun. Nor should our rights be brought up to discussion because of what someone else does.
Firearm owners can lose their moral standing, if:

• They ignore the actual harms caused by wide-spread ownership of firearms
• They block legislation and enforcement actions designed to improve the safety of the people
• They ignore the massive loopholes in certain aspects of the law
• They engage in political bull**** like screaming that any new law is a total obliteration of their rights and/or an inexorable slide on a slippery slope
• They engage in rank hypocrisy, such as accusing others of doing things that they themselves do

I also have to ask again: If alcohol is so evil, then what are YOU doing about it?
 
I am not going to defend people on the right who want to go against the Constitution. They are just as guilty, especially the Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan, John McCain, etc. types who are pure RINOs... I just find that this push against the Constitution and it's literal text comes more-so from the left side of the political spectrum...


The problem is that SCOTUS doesn't follow the literal text of the Constitution. They twist and contort things to fit their political biases. (commerce clause, general welfare clause, supremacy clause, etc.) and what you get as a result of that is nine people in robes controlling the whole country, having more power than any of the other branches of government, even though all the branches are supposed to keep each other's power in balance.

Also what people gloss over, even though it is an extremely important fact, is that the STATES were the creators of the Constitution and the federal government, and whatever powers the States did not specifically grant to the federal government via the Constitution still remain with the STATES.


Where in Article 1 Section 8 is the power for the federal government to legislate on firearms? And Article 5 is concerning amending the Constitution. As long as that process is followed, it can be amended in any way. My point is that if the law making powers aren't found in Article 1 Section 8, then there is an Article 5 process to amend the Constitution to grant Congress those law making powers.

The literal text of the constitution says you have a right to bear the two appendages attached to your shoulders.
 
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