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What if pro-2A folks go along with gun control proposals?[W:40]

Re: What if pro-2A folks go along with gun control proposals?

MaggieD said:
I’m not an anti-gunner, but I suggest we tackle all illegal guns before doing anything else. Stop-and-frisk only for guns. Find an illegal one? Automatic five years in jail. Juvie or not. No yard privileges. If owner of gun can be ascertained, and no police report has been made re theft? Automatic two years. Anyone caught selling an illegal gun in an illegal way? Automatic two years. Trafficking in arms? Ten years. Background checks every year on all legal gun owners. Restraining orders or convicted assaults? Permit rescinded. Guns confiscated. Illegal guns found in anyone’s home? All public benefits cease for all of those in residence who can’t be otherwise charged. Brandish a weapon? Two years. Commit a crime with a gun? Ten years.

Let’s start where the most killings happen. On the streets. And work from there.

Edit. Re background checks, drug convictions and or psychotropic meds? You lose.
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How is conducting background checks on legal gun owners attacking illegal guns?

Background checks do nothing except harass legal owners. Criminals cannot generally pass checks, so obtain guns by other means.
 
Re: What if pro-2A folks go along with gun control proposals?

apdst said:
I guess the anti-gunners don't really want to "have a discussion" afterall...lol
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It’s interesting that at least three posters have commented back to me, but not one has addressed my suggestions. And I think you’re right. ;) Lots of bellyaching. No constructive ideas.
 
Re: What if pro-2A folks go along with gun control proposals?

jimbo said:
How is conducting background checks on legal gun owners attacking illegal guns?

Background checks do nothing except harass legal owners. Criminals cannot generally pass checks, so obtain guns by other means.
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An automatic background check performed yearly presents no inconvenience to legal owners. No different than your insurance company’s annual credit check... of which you are completely unaware.
 
Re: What if pro-2A folks go along with gun control proposals?

MaggieD said:
Why do you say I lose? Is this some kind of contest I’m not aware of? I thought this was an exercise in what could be done to get illegal guns off the streets. Or don’t you care about that?

I don’t call IL “the worst.” It’s not unreasonable to register guns and require permits if one’s goal is to get illegal guns out of circulation. I received my gun permit in three weeks. Received my CC in a few. Have to wait three days to pick up a handgun. I find none of those requirements onerous. Why would you?
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For me it makes no sense to claim that the goal is to get illegal guns out of circulation then proceed to make laws and advocate policies that affect only legal guns and legal gun owners.

What would you suggest to go after guns illegally possessed? I would be in favor of stronger sentences for illegal possession or selling, but that is already illegal and I doubt that longer sentences would have much effect on illegal possession. Even it gets enforced, which it often does not.

The OP question was:

what protections will be/should be in place to keep gun owners from being subjected to abuse by the system?

Most of what you suggest does the opposite.
 
Re: What if pro-2A folks go along with gun control proposals?

jimbo said:
For me it makes no sense to claim that the goal is to get illegal guns out of circulation then proceed to make laws and advocate policies that affect only legal guns and legal gun owners.

What would you suggest to go after guns illegally possessed? I would be in favor of stronger sentences for illegal possession or selling, but that is already illegal and I doubt that longer sentences would have much effect on illegal possession. Even it gets enforced, which it often does not.

The OP question was:

what protections will be/should be in place to keep gun owners from being subjected to abuse by the system?

Most of what you suggest does the opposite.
Click to expand...

Apparently you did not read my initial post. There’s plenty there to target illegal guns. Practically the entire post...

MaggieD said:
I’m not an anti-gunner, but I suggest we tackle all illegal guns before doing anything else. Stop-and-frisk only for guns. Find an illegal one? Automatic five years in jail. Juvie or not. No yard privileges. If owner of gun can be ascertained, and no police report has been made re theft? Automatic two years. Anyone caught selling an illegal gun in an illegal way? Automatic two years. Trafficking in arms? Ten years. Background checks every year on all legal gun owners. Restraining orders or convicted assaults? Permit rescinded. Guns confiscated. Illegal guns found in anyone’s home? All public benefits cease for all of those in residence who can’t be otherwise charged. Brandish a weapon? Two years. Commit a crime with a gun? Ten years.

Let’s start where the most killings happen. On the streets. And work from there.

Edit. Re background checks, drug convictions and or psychotropic meds? You lose.
Click to expand...
 
Re: What if pro-2A folks go along with gun control proposals?

MaggieD said:
An automatic background check performed yearly presents no inconvenience to legal owners. No different than your insurance company’s annual credit check... of which you are completely unaware.
Click to expand...

Which doesn't answer the question "how is conducting background checks on legal gun owners attacking illegally possessed guns"?
 
Re: What if pro-2A folks go along with gun control proposals?

jimbo said:
Which doesn't answer the question "how is conducting background checks on legal gun owners attacking illegally possessed guns"?
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A felon cannot own a gun in Illinois. Remember, that’s where I’m coming from. My CC is good for ten years. Ten years is a long time to commit a felony, assault, domestic, become mentally unstable. But why are you just focusing on THAT aspect of my post? Own guns? Couldn’t pass one?
 
Re: What if pro-2A folks go along with gun control proposals?

MaggieD said:
A felon cannot own a gun in Illinois. Remember, that’s where I’m coming from. My CC is good for ten years. Ten years is a long time to commit a felony, assault, domestic, become mentally unstable. But why are you just focusing on THAT aspect of my post? Own guns? Couldn’t pass one?
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I own guns. I have a CC permit. I carry. I've done so for years. So no.

A felon cannot possess a gun anywhere.

I focus primarily on three of your points. Stop and Frisk, a violation of the fourth, yearly background checks, which somehow in spite of what you think will not come free or without inconvenience. And databases, which again would too easily abused. All infringe on legal possession.

I have no problem with stiff sentences for criminals, particularly deadly criminals, which all firearms related criminals are. But I doubt that illegal possessors will pay much attention to the difference between 2 and 10 years jail time.
 
Re: What if pro-2A folks go along with gun control proposals?

TurtleDude said:
he makes a good point. bannerrhoid politicians and their fan boys on this board pretend that their gun control schemes are not targeting honest gun owners for harassment but rather to "keep guns out of the wrong hands". now I know that is bs and I know that the Bps and their fan boys are all about harassing honest people for political reasons but maybe you can actually attempt to answer his questions
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Ironically, you give an oddly compelling answer to the question in the OP.
 
Re: What if pro-2A folks go along with gun control proposals?

jimbo said:
I own guns. I have a CC permit. I carry. I've done so for years. So no.

A felon cannot possess a gun anywhere.

I focus primarily on three of your points. Stop and Frisk, a violation of the fourth, yearly background checks, which somehow in spite of what you think will not come free or without inconvenience. And databases, which again would too easily abused. All infringe on legal possession.

I have no problem with stiff sentences for criminals, particularly deadly criminals, which all firearms related criminals are. But I doubt that illegal possessors will pay much attention to the difference between 2 and 10 years jail time.
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Bokassa, I’m trying to learn here. So how does the state know if someone has become a felon and owns guns if not all states require permits and registration?

I also think that safety sometimes requires that we compromise our rights. What avid and defensive gun owners continue to say, basically, is that it’s hopeless. Nothing can be done. Mass shootings? Innocent children shot down in the church, in the streets? Sorry, that’s the consequenc of our right to bear arms.
 
Re: What if pro-2A folks go along with gun control proposals?

MaggieD said:
Bokassa, I’m trying to learn here. So how does the state know if someone has become a felon and owns guns if not all states require permits and registration?

I also think that safety sometimes requires that we compromise our rights. What avid and defensive gun owners continue to say, basically, is that it’s hopeless. Nothing can be done. Mass shootings? Innocent children shot down in the church, in the streets? Sorry, that’s the consequenc of our right to bear arms.
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Give sellers direct access to NICS and they can check on unknown buyers. Typically, however, the mass shooter has purchased his firearm legally, actually passing a background check to do so.
 
Re: What if pro-2A folks go along with gun control proposals?

TurtleDude said:
he makes a good point. bannerrhoid politicians and their fan boys on this board pretend that their gun control schemes are not targeting honest gun owners for harassment but rather to "keep guns out of the wrong hands". now I know that is bs and I know that the Bps and their fan boys are all about harassing honest people for political reasons but maybe you can actually attempt to answer his questions
Click to expand...

Plural acronyms are all caps with a little "s" so "bannerrhoid politicians" would be BPs not Bps. Get it right!
 
Re: What if pro-2A folks go along with gun control proposals?

ataraxia said:
I want to hear some more about how there is no loophole for gun sales to schizophrenics, terrorists, convicted felons, and violent drug gangs coming across the border from Mexico!... Not.
:coffeepap
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There isn't a loophole. What else do you want to know?
 
Re: What if pro-2A folks go along with gun control proposals?

ataraxia said:
I want to hear some more about how there is no loophole for gun sales to schizophrenics, terrorists, convicted felons, and violent drug gangs coming across the border from Mexico!... Not.
:coffeepap
Click to expand...

Evidence?
 
Re: What if pro-2A folks go along with gun control proposals?

Moderator's Warning:
Real simple folks. Stick to the topic and stop the snark.
 
Re: What if pro-2A folks go along with gun control proposals?

Fishking said:
There isn't a loophole. What else do you want to know?
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There is a GIANT loophole where ANYONE can easily get a gun
 
Re: What if pro-2A folks go along with gun control proposals?

This stupid-*** country would follow the "kawnstitution" off a cliff.
 
Re: What if pro-2A folks go along with gun control proposals?

vegas giants said:
There is a GIANT loophole where ANYONE can easily get a gun
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Sorry, there is no loophole. If you're referring to a private citizen who's selling their weapon as a one-time thing then yeah...they aren't a business or vendor. That's not a loophole, that's how it's supposed to be.
 
Re: What if pro-2A folks go along with gun control proposals?

Fishking said:
Sorry, there is no loophole. If you're referring to a private citizen who's selling their weapon as a one-time thing then yeah...they aren't a business or vendor. That's not a loophole, that's how it's supposed to be.
Click to expand...

Loopholes ARE how things are supposed to be. You think tax loopholes are a mistake??? LOL
 
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