• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Las Vegas gunman shot security guard a full six minutes before opening fire on concertgoers

R

Rucker61

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2016
Messages
33,569
Reaction score
20,248
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Centrist
Officials had previously said that gunman Stephen Paddock, 64, of Mesquite, Nev., shot Mandalay Bay security guard Jesus Campos after Paddock had unleashed his deadly volley at the Route 91 Harvest Festival, an assault that began at 10:05 p.m. and left 58 people dead, with hundreds more injured.

They had credited Campos, who was shot in the leg, with stopping the 10-minute assault on the concert crowd by turning the gunman’s attention to the hotel hallway, where Campos was checking an alert for an open door in another guest’s room.

But Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo said Monday that Paddock shot Campos before his mass shooting — at 9:59 p.m. — and they now didn’t know why Paddock stopped his attack on the crowd

Las Vegas gunman shot security guard a full six minutes before opening fire on concertgoers, police reveal - LA Times
 
Big deal, it was total chaos from the beginning.

Like Tyson once said...... Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face.
 
Rucker61 said:
Officials had previously said that gunman Stephen Paddock, 64, of Mesquite, Nev., shot Mandalay Bay security guard Jesus Campos after Paddock had unleashed his deadly volley at the Route 91 Harvest Festival, an assault that began at 10:05 p.m. and left 58 people dead, with hundreds more injured.

They had credited Campos, who was shot in the leg, with stopping the 10-minute assault on the concert crowd by turning the gunman’s attention to the hotel hallway, where Campos was checking an alert for an open door in another guest’s room.

But Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo said Monday that Paddock shot Campos before his mass shooting — at 9:59 p.m. — and they now didn’t know why Paddock stopped his attack on the crowd

Las Vegas gunman shot security guard a full six minutes before opening fire on concertgoers, police reveal - LA Times
Click to expand...

I saw this story, and thought the security guard was in the hallway because of people complaining about someone shooting.
In addition, how long after he was shot did he call the 911?
It seems to me if you are shot and awake, you call 911, and tell them your location, and that "I've been shot!!!"
they dispatch an ambulance, and the police.
 
longview said:
I saw this story, and thought the security guard was in the hallway because of people complaining about someone shooting.
In addition, how long after he was shot did he call the 911?
It seems to me if you are shot and awake, you call 911, and tell them your location, and that "I've been shot!!!"
they dispatch an ambulance, and the police.
Click to expand...

"Lombardo said that Campos, upon being shot, immediately notified security of his situation, and his action helped identify the location of the suspect. In addition, Campos prevented a maintenance worker on the same floor from receiving any injuries, the sheriff said."
 
Rucker61 said:
"Lombardo said that Campos, upon being shot, immediately notified security of his situation, and his action helped identify the location of the suspect. In addition, Campos prevented a maintenance worker on the same floor from receiving any injuries, the sheriff said."
Click to expand...
I am just thinking of the timing, the police like 10 minuets later were on the floor below.
If the call had said active shooter on the 32 floor, you would think that is where they would go.
it just sound like they are not sure of the time line yet.
 
Investigation of an event like this is very complex. It is not surprising to me that as new information is confirmed that the timeline of events change somewhat.
This is a problem with the "information age" and people expecting all the facts now from the investigators.
 
Rucker61 said:
Officials had previously said that gunman Stephen Paddock, 64, of Mesquite, Nev., shot Mandalay Bay security guard Jesus Campos after Paddock had unleashed his deadly volley at the Route 91 Harvest Festival, an assault that began at 10:05 p.m. and left 58 people dead, with hundreds more injured.

They had credited Campos, who was shot in the leg, with stopping the 10-minute assault on the concert crowd by turning the gunman’s attention to the hotel hallway, where Campos was checking an alert for an open door in another guest’s room.

But Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo said Monday that Paddock shot Campos before his mass shooting — at 9:59 p.m. — and they now didn’t know why Paddock stopped his attack on the crowd

Las Vegas gunman shot security guard a full six minutes before opening fire on concertgoers, police reveal - LA Times
Click to expand...

Well, I would assume he stopped it in order to be sure to kill himself before cops stormed the place. Which then begs the question, “What took them that long?” When they got upstairs, it would seem the shooting had stopped. Knowing that they have contraptions that can camera the room from underneath, one wonders what slowed them down...

I hate to armchair on them, but it does give one pause.
 
Rucker61 said:
Officials had previously said that gunman Stephen Paddock, 64, of Mesquite, Nev., shot Mandalay Bay security guard Jesus Campos after Paddock had unleashed his deadly volley at the Route 91 Harvest Festival, an assault that began at 10:05 p.m. and left 58 people dead, with hundreds more injured.

They had credited Campos, who was shot in the leg, with stopping the 10-minute assault on the concert crowd by turning the gunman’s attention to the hotel hallway, where Campos was checking an alert for an open door in another guest’s room.

But Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo said Monday that Paddock shot Campos before his mass shooting — at 9:59 p.m. — and they now didn’t know why Paddock stopped his attack on the crowd

Las Vegas gunman shot security guard a full six minutes before opening fire on concertgoers, police reveal - LA Times
Click to expand...

It would seem that they should at least know why Campos was checking Paddock's room.
 
MaggieD said:
Well, I would assume he stopped it in order to be sure to kill himself before cops stormed the place. Which then begs the question, “What took them that long?” When they got upstairs, it would seem the shooting had stopped. Knowing that they have contraptions that can camera the room from underneath, one wonders what slowed them down...

I hate to armchair on them, but it does give one pause.
Click to expand...

Based on the "60 minute" interviews , it seems the SWAT team was not an organized LVPD SWAT but a group made up of different LEO who happened to meet up on the floor.
There was no indication they had remote cameras to look under the door. The one LEO (SWAT?) did have the explosive charges with him to blow the hinges.

imo, the actions were appropriate.
 
MaggieD said:
Well, I would assume he stopped it in order to be sure to kill himself before cops stormed the place. Which then begs the question, “What took them that long?” When they got upstairs, it would seem the shooting had stopped. Knowing that they have contraptions that can camera the room from underneath, one wonders what slowed them down...

I hate to armchair on them, but it does give one pause.
Click to expand...

The cops would have been setting up in anticipation of booby trapped doorways. As long as the guy wasn't shooting at the crowd they would have treated the incident as a "barricaded suspect" and held off on entering the room until they had better information regarding what to expect when they did enter.
 
So, apparently he had been drilling holes in the door to install pin hole cameras which prompted complaints to the front desk for noise?

Quite frankly, the new timeline makes more sense to me than the previous timeline. Here are the facts that didn't add up before:

- Paddock had taken as much as a full day to move all of his weapons and ammo up to his room.

- Paddock had several future and previous hotel rooms booked

The second bit of evidence immediately struck me. While the claim was that Paddock was suffering a psychotic break (something I don't doubt) it still made no sense that a meticulously thought out plan, one that he obviously planned to walk away from, would have so many obvious logical flaws.

- Why bring more weapons than he could conceivably use?

- Why carry more weapons to the scene than you could escape with?

- Why linger so long on the scene if you are planning to escape?

None of that added up for me when the narrative was that he opened fire in a cool and planned manner and only stopped when the security guard arrived. Sure, it could be chalked up to crazy, but it would be -- for lack of a better phrase -- a weird kind of crazy.

Now, if you change around the narrative and the guard was the first one shot then the whole series of events make a lot more sense. Here is what I believe happened:

- Paddock was -- for unknown reasons -- suffering from a form of psychosis that was manifested in a compulsion to plan for a mass shooting.

- His compulsion was to try to sneak as much weaponry in to a scene as he could, the relief he felt would come from moving the weapons back out undetected... similar to the compulsion for kleptomania.

So, my guess is that the compulsion plan played out with him prepping a sight, then cooling off, feeling good for pulling himself from the brink, and then deescalating the scene undetected.

In the scenario as it played out on Sunday I would guess his new escalation on this outing was the attempt to install cameras on the scene, and he hadn't accounted for the potential of security being called.

When security arrived he was likely either still in the set up phase, or the cool down phase (might depend on when the food was ordered) and he snapped, firing on the guard because he realized what would happen now that his compulsion was about to be revealed. At that point his compulsive fascination with the thought of carrying out a mass shooting simply kicked in and he could no longer walk himself back from it so he broke the window and opened fire.

I have been looking for a rational way to fit all the pieces together and that was the first explanation that made any sense, but it didn't present itself until they changed timing of the security guard shooting.
 
Lutherf said:
It would seem that they should at least know why Campos was checking Paddock's room.
Click to expand...

I heard that he was checking an alarm notifying of an open door or something like that.
 
Rucker61 said:
Officials had previously said that gunman Stephen Paddock, 64, of Mesquite, Nev., shot Mandalay Bay security guard Jesus Campos after Paddock had unleashed his deadly volley at the Route 91 Harvest Festival, an assault that began at 10:05 p.m. and left 58 people dead, with hundreds more injured.

They had credited Campos, who was shot in the leg, with stopping the 10-minute assault on the concert crowd by turning the gunman’s attention to the hotel hallway, where Campos was checking an alert for an open door in another guest’s room.

But Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo said Monday that Paddock shot Campos before his mass shooting — at 9:59 p.m. — and they now didn’t know why Paddock stopped his attack on the crowd

Las Vegas gunman shot security guard a full six minutes before opening fire on concertgoers, police reveal - LA Times
Click to expand...

The truth telling around this event really sucks, worse than usual I think.

Another example is that apparently it took then many days to figure out that they could match all of the chargers with phones/electronics, there never was an extra charger.
 
Lutherf said:
It would seem that they should at least know why Campos was checking Paddock's room.
Click to expand...

I don’t think we know that. What I heard was that he was checking an open door alarm on the floor...
 
I can easily imagine that this man had some sort reckoning during the melee and off'ed himself.

By many accounts he seemed like a decent man, and others.....the devil.

Maybe the decent side showed up for a brief moment?

We will never know for sure.
 
MaggieD said:
Well, I would assume he stopped it in order to be sure to kill himself before cops stormed the place. Which then begs the question, “What took them that long?” When they got upstairs, it would seem the shooting had stopped. Knowing that they have contraptions that can camera the room from underneath, one wonders what slowed them down...

I hate to armchair on them, but it does give one pause.
Click to expand...

It took them that long because police are trained when the firing stop, you slow down and ckear each room. When the shooter saw the police down the hall he shot himself, thus ending the shooting. Since there was no shooting, SWAT slowed down their response and cleared each room. Had the shooting picked up again, they would've gone straight to the shooting.
 
The whole thing is just weird and the reporting of timelines hasnt helped anything. We probably know less definitively know than we ever did.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist. But this picture of how he was allegedly found is wonky as ****.

22195928_757646181098050_3019427469343104174_n.jpg
 
MaggieD said:
Wonder who leaked THAT?
Click to expand...
Dood brough in thousands of pounds of gear...and that tiny ass hammer to break TWO windows storm rated at 800 pounds? With stacks...literally stacks of fully loaded 50 round magazines he is dropping 30 rounders? he shoots himself from THAT position...and lands on top of a gun but with his foot UNDER a gun? The gloves...totally inappropriate for using a bumpfire weapon. Bumpfire stocks on weapons with tripods? Tripods on weapons used to shoot down into a crowd?


And that carpet....

Oh...and how cute. He is calculating wind and distance on his notepad...a very 'sniper-like' thing to do...except he was using bumpfire spray and pray weapons.
 
VanceMack said:
Dood brough in thousands of pounds of gear...and that tiny ass hammer to break TWO windows storm rated at 800 pounds? With stacks...literally stacks of fully loaded 50 round magazines he is dropping 30 rounders? he shoots himself from THAT position...and lands on top of a gun but with his foot UNDER a gun? The gloves...totally inappropriate for using a bumpfire weapon. Bumpfire stocks on weapons with tripods? Tripods on weapons used to shoot down into a crowd?


And that carpet....

Oh...and how cute. He is calculating wind and distance on his notepad...a very 'sniper-like' thing to do...except he was using bumpfire spray and pray weapons.
Click to expand...


its his left hand with a glove, that actually makes some sense
 
TurtleDude said:
its his left hand with a glove, that actually makes some sense
Click to expand...
Except it doesnt appear to be a shooting glove. It appears to be a slip on fabric glove that has give. For a bump fire stock to function properly, there has to be forward pressure on the weapon. Any type of give is prone to cause the bump stock action to not cycle properly...similarly to a smoke-stacked feed from a semiautomatic handgun held with a soft grip.
 
VanceMack said:
Except it doesnt appear to be a shooting glove. It appears to be a slip on fabric glove that has give. For a bump fire stock to function properly, there has to be forward pressure on the weapon. Any type of give is prone to cause the bump stock action to not cycle properly...similarly to a smoke-stacked feed from a semiautomatic handgun held with a soft grip.
Click to expand...

your eyes are better than mine then. I couldn't see that from that picture
 
TurtleDude said:
your eyes are better than mine then. I couldn't see that from that picture
Click to expand...
Too many years of Columbo.... ;)

There are just so many things that are 'weird' about this shooting. That doesnt mean this wasnt that one guy doing everything...but still.
 
longview said:
I saw this story, and thought the security guard was in the hallway because of people complaining about someone shooting.
In addition, how long after he was shot did he call the 911?
It seems to me if you are shot and awake, you call 911, and tell them your location, and that "I've been shot!!!"
they dispatch an ambulance, and the police.
Click to expand...
They are now saying he was on the floor investigating an alarm from an exit door and he was shot investigating the door being open, not anything going on in the room. Additionally they are saying there were over 200 rounds fired at him through the door and that there was a 6 minute lull between Paddock shooting the security guard and him opening fire on the crowd.

Anyone care to speculate on what that door would look like after having 200 rounds fired at it from a distance of only about 20 feet?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom