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Sentence for Stolen Firearm?

blackjack50

blackjack50

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Location
Florida
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Conservative
What should it be? I think it is 5 years for Florida. Would you increase the sentence on this? Should it be? Personally I would be ok with 25 years.


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Whatever the normal penalty for breaking and entering and theft of property matching that value is.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
Whatever the normal penalty for breaking and entering and theft of property matching that value is.
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I sort of disagree. stealing 400 dollars of cash from someone's desk doesnt have the same repercussions as stealing a 400 dollar handgun that is then traded for drugs and perhaps used to rob or harm another. So I can understand why the theft of a firearm from a licensed dealer is a First Degree felony in Ohio while stealing a knife of the same value is usually a first degree misdemeanor
 
Skeptic Bob said:
Whatever the normal penalty for breaking and entering and theft of property matching that value is.
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You dont think there is a difference between stealing a $400 firearm and $400 cash?


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TurtleDude said:
I sort of disagree. stealing 400 dollars of cash from someone's desk doesnt have the same repercussions as stealing a 400 dollar handgun that is then traded for drugs and perhaps used to rob or harm another. So I can understand why the theft of a firearm from a licensed dealer is a First Degree felony in Ohio while stealing a knife of the same value is usually a first degree misdemeanor
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Fair point. I just think it might be difficult to prove they knew what they were stealing, especially if the thief just grabs the lockbox and runs. He can claim he thought it might be jewelry. Though some cases may be more clear cut.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
Fair point. I just think it might be difficult to prove they knew what they were stealing, especially if the thief just grabs the lockbox and runs. He can claim he thought it might be jewelry. Though some cases may be more clear cut.
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I suppose one could make that argument. But then...Ignorantia juris non excusat....ignorance of the law is not a defense. I suppose thieves would need to be more careful on what they steal.


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Think of all the gang bangers who this would hurt... Mandatory sentences? Wouldn't this sort of be like the current drug laws with mandatory minimums?
 
Southern Dad said:
Think of all the gang bangers who this would hurt... Mandatory sentences? Wouldn't this sort of be like the current drug laws with mandatory minimums?
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Well...I think the biggest difference between this and drug laws would be that you wouldn't be charging an addict. And there is a big difference there.


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blackjack50 said:
I suppose one could make that argument. But then...Ignorantia juris non excusat....ignorance of the law is not a defense. I suppose thieves would need to be more careful on what they steal.


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Click to expand...

well there is a mens rea requirement and if you steal a cash box thinking its cash but it has a Glock 26 in it, I think you might beat the rap but its been a long time since I dealt with the issue and i could be wrong but since its a specific intent case, I suspect it requires the specific intent to steal a handgun
 
TurtleDude said:
well there is a mens rea requirement and if you steal a cash box thinking its cash but it has a Glock 26 in it, I think you might beat the rap but its been a long time since I dealt with the issue and i could be wrong but since its a specific intent case, I suspect it requires the specific intent to steal a handgun
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That is unfortunate. What would mens rea be? Not up on the terms that much.


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Last edited:
blackjack50 said:
That is unfortunate. What would mens rea be? Not up on the terms that much.


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Click to expand...

Legal term used to determine criminal liability. Mens rea means guilty mind in Latin. It is intent to commit and knowledge that you are committing a crime. In Turtles example, knowledge that the box contains a gun and you intend to steal it.

The act of committing the crime is called the actus rea (guilty act).
 
blackjack50 said:
That is unfortunate. What would mens rea be? Not up on the terms that much.


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"the act is not culpable unless the mind is guilty".
Pay attention, the Justice Dept is considering requiring it on all federal laws, which will affect state laws. DoJ feels too many dumb crooks are winding up in jail for fumbling smart guy crimes, I guess.
 
blackjack50 said:
What should it be? I think it is 5 years for Florida. Would you increase the sentence on this? Should it be? Personally I would be ok with 25 years.


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Click to expand...

Skeptic Bob said:
Whatever the normal penalty for breaking and entering and theft of property matching that value is.
Click to expand...

TurtleDude said:
I sort of disagree. stealing 400 dollars of cash from someone's desk doesnt have the same repercussions as stealing a 400 dollar handgun that is then traded for drugs and perhaps used to rob or harm another. So I can understand why the theft of a firearm from a licensed dealer is a First Degree felony in Ohio while stealing a knife of the same value is usually a first degree misdemeanor
Click to expand...

Southern Dad said:
Think of all the gang bangers who this would hurt... Mandatory sentences? Wouldn't this sort of be like the current drug laws with mandatory minimums?
Click to expand...

A cop should body slam the theif on their face to the concrete...
 
chuckiechan said:
"the act is not culpable unless the mind is guilty".
Pay attention, the Justice Dept is considering requiring it on all federal laws, which will affect state laws. DoJ feels too many dumb crooks are winding up in jail for fumbling smart guy crimes, I guess.
Click to expand...

They're gonna call it the Trump defense.
 
TurtleDude said:
I sort of disagree. stealing 400 dollars of cash from someone's desk doesnt have the same repercussions as stealing a 400 dollar handgun that is then traded for drugs and perhaps used to rob or harm another. So I can understand why the theft of a firearm from a licensed dealer is a First Degree felony in Ohio while stealing a knife of the same value is usually a first degree misdemeanor
Click to expand...

Monetary value in many states determines the theft charge, but I agree that some theft is less dangerous to the public, such as a white collar crime of embezzling. It is true that some types of theft are more dangerous to the public in general, such as the theft of a gun, but I'm not sure we should punish it at a higher level because if the gun is used in a future crime, that crime is punishable as well.

Maybe we could lump gun-theft in with more violent crimes, given the nature of the stolen merchandise, but it's an interesting issue to be sure. I'm not really decided either way.
 
blackjack50 said:
What should it be? I think it is 5 years for Florida. Would you increase the sentence on this? Should it be? Personally I would be ok with 25 years.


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Click to expand...

It should be what ever the normal penalty is for stealing property and the value of that property. This idea that we got to slap on extra penalties is just caving to anti-2n amendment trash who want to further demonize firearm in order to make it easier to severely restrict,de facto ban them through various laws that make it extremely difficult for average citizens to obtain them or just a straight out ban.
 
Bodhisattva said:
A cop should body slam the theif on their face to the concrete...
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You may romanticize the cherished American past-time of cops abusing innocent people who haven't been convicted of a crime, but if it happened to you in New Zealand you'd probably change your tune.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
You may romanticize the cherished American past-time of cops abusing innocent people who haven't been convicted of a crime, but if it happened to you in New Zealand you'd probably change your tune.
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Cops abusing innocent people who haven't been convicted is a cherished American past time?

Kiwi cops talk to people. Relate. Not sure anybody other than a gang banger or felon gets body slammed. Discussion. Heck mate... kiwi cops drive home drunks or give warnings on things US cops shoot to kill over...
 
Bodhisattva said:
Cops abusing innocent people who haven't been convicted is a cherished American past time?

Kiwi cops talk to people. Relate. Not sure anybody other than a gang banger or felon gets body slammed. Discussion. Heck mate... kiwi cops drive home drunks or give warnings on things US cops shoot to kill over...
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Yes, and you should be glad it isn't that way in New Zealand and not advocating for it on internet forums. No, cops should not slam innocent people face first into concrete.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
And yet what you actually said, without any elaboration was:



If you want people to believe the opposite of what you say, be sure to mention that.
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It was so over the top that the only reasonable conclusion would be sarcasm.
 
Bodhisattva said:
It was so over the top that the only reasonable conclusion would be sarcasm.
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Nothing on DP is too over the top to be taken seriously as there are plenty of people who actually believe that. Also historically you don't have the best track record for being moderate on all topics. Anyway, moving on.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Nothing on DP is too over the top to be taken seriously as there are plenty of people who actually believe that. Also historically you don't have the best track record for being moderate on all topics. Anyway, moving on.
Click to expand...

Uh.huh. sarcasm. Work on it.
 
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