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The Las Vegas shooting proves gun bans work

TurtleDude said:
yes the tragedy is awful. Its also awful watching people trying to use the deaths of innocents to advance their agenda before we even know all the facts.
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He's baiting you. Don't go for it. :)
 
TurtleDude said:
the gun banners cannot wait for the facts to come out before they gleefully use the blood of the innocents to try to blot out constitutional rights. Guess what=firing on a mass of country music fans was probably designed to kill basically conservative white Christian middle class people who tend to be the most prevalent fans of that sort of music.

it did sound like Automatic weapons though it could have been a crank activator you can put on a rifle. It will be interesting to see, with all the cameras, how the man got 10 rifles into a hotel room
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From the videos I've watched, it seems to be automatic weaponry to me as well. I also wonder how he got those in the building without raising suspicion.

I also wonder what his motives were. He doesn't have any criminal history, and he killed himself, so it's probably gonna be difficult to figure out what his motive for this shooting was.
 
Ikari said:
When a society allows its citizens to have firearms, then there will be a certain amount of firearm related crime. It's a consequence of the freedom. All freedoms can, and given enough people, will be abused and even used for crimes in some way. Guns have the starkest effect, but it all exists. Free isn't safe, by its very nature it cannot be.

It does seem that the occurrence of these events is growing in frequency, it's hard to say if that's real or if our reporting has gotten better or if it's some add-mixture. Likely the latter. And while we can take certain steps to try to reduce the probabilities, the probabilities can never be zero; particularly in a free society.
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Agreed.

But restricting the easy availability of weapons should reduce the incidence of things like this.
 
TheGoverness said:
From the videos I've watched, it seems to be automatic weaponry to me as well. I also wonder how he got those in the building without raising suspicion.

I also wonder what his motives were. He doesn't have any criminal history, and he killed himself, so it's probably gonna be difficult to figure out what his motive for this shooting was.
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I've seen one claim by a former vet that based on the sound it was a M-249 SAW. The vet had been a SAW gunner for six years, according to his claim.
 
Threegoofs said:
Agreed.

But restricting the easy availability of weapons should reduce the incidence of things like this.
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Please describe the "easy availability" of fully automatic weapons.
 
ludin said:
In the state of Nevada it is legal to own fully automatic weapons.
They are hard to get though because you must buy it from a class 3 dealer.
You have to submit a federal background check that can take up to 8 months.

it also costs 250 bucks for the federal tax stamp which you have to have for each and every full auto gun you have.
so a full auto m16 will set you back about 15000 dollars. also it has to be made before 1986.
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Ugh.

Tough restrictions on the god given freedom to gun down lots of people in short periods of time.

And think of the poor victims of this horrific stomping of freedoms! It’s only right that they get to own full auto weapons so they can have fun on the range and indulge in prepper fantasies!
 
TurtleDude said:
the gun banners cannot wait for the facts to come out before they gleefully use the blood of the innocents to try to blot out constitutional rights. Guess what=firing on a mass of country music fans was probably designed to kill basically conservative white Christian middle class people who tend to be the most prevalent fans of that sort of music.

it did sound like Automatic weapons though it could have been a crank activator you can put on a rifle. It will be interesting to see, with all the cameras, how the man got 10 rifles into a hotel room
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My guess is inside luggage which was not inspected. Do you suppose it is time to start putting federal nannies in hotel/motel lobbies like we do for airports?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
My guess is inside luggage which was not inspected. Do you suppose it is time to start putting federal nannies in hotel/motel lobbies like we do for airports?
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My guess is that they will do exactly that.
 
Threegoofs said:
Agreed.

But restricting the easy availability of weapons should reduce the incidence of things like this.
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We don't have a lot of information on this instance, but it seems like this was very well thought out and planned. So even with "resticted availability", I don't think this particular instance would have been prevented. You may affect instances that are more rash, quickly conceived and executed.
 
Rucker61 said:
I've seen one claim by a former vet that based on the sound it was a M-249 SAW. The vet had been a SAW gunner for six years, according to his claim.
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No...not a 249...the sound I heard was a slower rate of fire; a 249 has a much higher rate of fire and its chambered in 5.56; if I had to guess, an AK/SKS maybe...it has a distinct sound, and I hear the damn things every day.
 
TheGoverness said:
From the videos I've watched, it seems to be automatic weaponry to me as well. I also wonder how he got those in the building without raising suspicion.

I also wonder what his motives were. He doesn't have any criminal history, and he killed himself, so it's probably gonna be difficult to figure out what his motive for this shooting was.
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he also had had the room for four days meaning this was carefully planned. probably brought one rifle after another into the room over a period of time. planned a shooting where there were lots of people who wouldn't be aware of the shooting immediately. Ever see the movie about the soviet sniper (Enemy at the Gates) where he was shooting Germans -he would wait until an artillery shell exploded to pull the trigger. This guy knew there would be a noise level that would allow him multiple shots before there was a response. he also committed suicide meaning any threat of punishment was irrelevant.

so the main way of deterring a criminal act is not available to what we call Kamikaze killer

so the next "solution" to some is trying to make it impossible for a killer to get the guns. of course that means banning guns for just about everyone but we also know that won't work but is pushed by those whose real goal is banning guns for political reasons. we also know that someone willing to die for his crime is far less likely to be deterred from getting a weapon than the average citizen so that solution is worthless as well

the only thing that could possible work in this situation (and no-its not armed victims since this guy was sniping from an area of cover and concealment and handguns would not have been particularly useful) is spotting people with mental health issues and getting them treatment before their illness reaches critical mass. and since the facts are not in, this man may well have NOT exhibited any such symptoms.
 
Polar Bum said:
No...not a 249...the sound I heard was a slower rate of fire; a 249 has a much higher rate of fire and its chambered in 5.56; if I had to guess, an AK/SKS maybe...it has a distinct sound, and I hear the damn things every day.
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Ok, don't laugh at me, but I heard a number that started with a 3. 3?? Also said it was military ammo
 
Polar Bum said:
No...not a 249...the sound I heard was a slower rate of fire; a 249 has a much higher rate of fire and its chambered in 5.56; if I had to guess, an AK/SKS maybe...it has a distinct sound, and I hear the damn things every day.
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a BMF activator or a bumpfire conversion shoots about that fast. it was not as fast as something like a MAC 11 or a MP-5 but some AKs with some ammo sound about like that
 
Ikari said:
We don't have a lot of information on this instance, but it seems like this was very well thought out and planned. So even with "resticted availability", I don't think this particular instance would have been prevented. You may affect instances that are more rash, quickly conceived and executed.
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Don’t really care about preventing this particular incident. It’s a bit late for that.

I’m more concerned about preventing future incidents.

And easy availability of firearms is kinda key to those.
 
holbritter said:
Ok, don't laugh at me, but I heard a number that started with a 3. 3?? Also said it was military ammo
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No laughing.

Standard NATO ammunition for light weapons tends to be either 5.56 or 7.62.....they may have said .223, which is another way of saying 5.56.

As for "military"? both calibers are pretty common.....

*edit: Someone may have said ".308".....
 
Threegoofs said:
Don’t really care about preventing this particular incident. It’s a bit late for that.

I’m more concerned about preventing future incidents.

And easy availability of firearms is kinda key to those.
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gun banners such as you want to confuse "easy access" to normal people with "easy access" to those willing to die to commit their crimes

Cocaine was not readily available to say my late mother. None of her friends used coke and she'd have no idea where to score it. but then again, she had no interest whatsoever in scoring some blow. Now, when I was a college kid, I could score coke within 5 minutes. I had no desire to use it, but I certainly knew where to get it.

the same is true with guns even if they are banned. The suburban soccer moms and the Ivy tower professors who constantly support gun bans and whine about "easy accessibility" are thinking in terms of their concepts of accessibility. Ban the sale of AR 15s and PEOPLE LIKE THEM (professors, soccer moms, etc) will have a much harder time in getting those weapons. BUT such laws really don't decrease the accessibility of such firearms to those most likely to use them for illegal purposes.

after a while, we start noting that the real goal of gun banners is not preventing accessibility of firearms to mass killers, gangbangers or say hard core mercenary types but rather to the average person.
 
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