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I just want to save lives

Bucky said:
This post is a deflection on the fact that more guns = more homicide.

People die from other things, let's ignore the fact people are getting gunned down!
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You think if there wasn't any guns, that they would somehow magically be no more homicide? Ridiculous.

Just look at the countries where most civilians don't have access to guns. There's a lot of mass stabbings that go on.
 
Bucky said:
When the mass shooting happened in Newtown, Connecticut, it rocked me to my core. Adam Lanza had several guns and killed little children.

How many more mass shootings do we have to go through before gun control is enacted? The NRA and gun zealots are so extreme and evil they harass the parents of those who children were killed. Now, that's psychotic.

Our nation is swimming in a flood of guns. The U.S is such a violent country, and it gets exacerbated with the flood of weaponrys in our country.


Guns in the US: The statistics behind the violence - BBC News

Mass shooting in the U.S is not rare, and the killers are obtaining their guns legally.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-shootings-in-america/?utm_term=.bad73b116267

If stricter gun control laws lead to fewer deaths from gun-related violence, why is gun control not being demanded by the public?
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Adam Lanza never bought a gun in his life. With that thought (fact?) firmly planted in your mind then no BGC or registration law would have had any effect on his killing his mother to access her guns from her safe. That leaves precious little "gun control" that would have stopped Adam Lanza from gaining access to guns short of banning guns.

Perhaps you can enlighten us as to what, specific, "gun control" laws would have stopped Adam Lanza - your chosen poster child for mass shooters. One can assume that someone willing to kill their own mother in order to get guns to kill complete strangers (and himself) would not be easy to to deter by passing more "gun control" laws.
 
Renae said:
If saving lives is your goal, disarming law abiding people is not the way to do it.
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Fine,

Then shouldn't all drugs be legal too? Again, if guns don't kill people, then drugs don't kill people either.

Tell me you support legalizing cocaine and all drugs.

If you are consistent, this shouldn't be an issue.
 
TheGoverness said:
You think if there wasn't any guns, that they would somehow magically be no more homicide? Ridiculous.

Just look at the countries where most civilians don't have access to guns. There's a lot of mass stabbings that go on.
Click to expand...

I never said that.

I said: Access to more guns = More homicides. Areas with more stricter gun control = Less crime.

This is a fact which can be proven.
 
Bucky said:
When the mass shooting happened in Newtown, Connecticut, it rocked me to my core. Adam Lanza had several guns and killed little children.

How many more mass shootings do we have to go through before gun control is enacted? The NRA and gun zealots are so extreme and evil they harass the parents of those who children were killed. Now, that's psychotic.

Our nation is swimming in a flood of guns. The U.S is such a violent country, and it gets exacerbated with the flood of weaponrys in our country.


Guns in the US: The statistics behind the violence - BBC News

Mass shooting in the U.S is not rare, and the killers are obtaining their guns legally.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-shootings-in-america/?utm_term=.bad73b116267

If stricter gun control laws lead to fewer deaths from gun-related violence, why is gun control not being demanded by the public?
Click to expand...




What a bunch of crap. How many of these gun crimes were done with guns already illegally possessed, and in all these states, the cities are where these gun crimes happen that have stricter gun control laws.


#fakenews
 
Bucky said:
I never said that.

I said: Access to more guns = More homicides. Areas with more stricter gun control = Less crime.

This is a fact which can be proven.
Click to expand...




That's a lie as I just noted. that in your misleading links, it fails to mention that in each of these instances that cause the rise it is illegal guns by prohibited possessors in inner cities with stricter gun control laws that these increases exist.


Detroit vs all of Michigan changes the context to reality.


fact. if you are not a criminal you have no more chance of being a victim of a shooting than anyplace in europe.
 
Bucky said:
Fine,

Then shouldn't all drugs be legal too? Again, if guns don't kill people, then drugs don't kill people either.

Tell me you support legalizing cocaine and all drugs.

If you are consistent, this shouldn't be an issue.
Click to expand...

Your logic is flawed. Cars kill people, are you demanding all privately owned vehicles be banned in favor of public transportation? If you are consistent you will.
 
Renae said:
Your logic is flawed. Cars kill people, are you demanding all privately owned vehicles be banned in favor of public transportation? If you are consistent you will.
Click to expand...

The difference is Congress actually wants to do things about making cars safer. Soon we will have automotive vehicles.

What is the NRA doing about gun safety? Absolutely zero.
 
Bucky said:
I never said that.

I said: Access to more guns = More homicides. Areas with more stricter gun control = Less crime.

This is a fact which can be proven.
Click to expand...

WRONG sir, wrong.
Chicago, extreme gun control, high gun crime. San Antonio Texas, lax gun control, low gun crime.

You lose.
 
Bucky said:
The difference is Congress actually wants to do things about making cars safer. Soon we will have automotive vehicles.

What is the NRA doing about gun safety? Absolutely zero.
Click to expand...

Education, empowering citizens to carry safely in more places.
 
Renae said:
WRONG sir, wrong.
Chicago, extreme gun control, high gun crime. San Antonio Texas, lax gun control, low gun crime.

You lose.
Click to expand...

What? Are you going to argue than access to more gun = less crime?

Now that is absurd.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
That's a lie as I just noted. that in your misleading links, it fails to mention that in each of these instances that cause the rise it is illegal guns by prohibited possessors in inner cities with stricter gun control laws that these increases exist.


Detroit vs all of Michigan changes the context to reality.


fact. if you are not a criminal you have no more chance of being a victim of a shooting than anyplace in europe.
Click to expand...

Lol misleading link. My problem with gun zealots is that they believe they are somehow above the law. Imagine if we didn't have DUI laws.
 
Renae said:
Your logic is flawed. Cars kill people, are you demanding all privately owned vehicles be banned in favor of public transportation? If you are consistent you will.
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It seems you are also arguing laws do not cause change. Harsh laws against DUIs deter people from driving drunk. Would you argue drinking while driving shouldn't be a crime?
 
Bucky said:
Lol misleading link. My problem with gun zealots is that they believe they are somehow above the law. Imagine if we didn't have DUI laws.
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What a dumb post. because I point out a flaw in your argument, I'm the zealot?


as for DUI laws, when we reduced the bac from point .1 to .08 drunk driving actually increased.

DRUNK DRIVING LEGISLATION AND TRAFFIC FATALITIES: NEW EVIDENCE ON BAC 08 LAWS - FREEMAN - 2007 - Contemporary Economic Policy - Wiley Online Library
The New Philadelphia Story: The Effects of Severe Punishment for Drunk Driving - ROSS - 1990 - Law & Policy - Wiley Online Library


What's sad is hoplophobes disregard actual facts and have emotional outbursts that anyone who disagrees with them is a zealot when in reality, they should look in the mirror.


Note my links are peer reviewed studies. I have a ton of them on guns and who commits the crimes with them, showing exactly what I stated. I tend not to waste my time though in gun arguments because your ilk tend not to be reasonable to truth.
 
Bucky said:
The difference is Congress actually wants to do things about making cars safer. Soon we will have automotive vehicles.

What is the NRA doing about gun safety? Absolutely zero.
Click to expand...

The NRA is the largest source of firearm safety instructors in the world. They also support the Childsafe Project which provides free gun locks to gun owners. They also supported the NICS Improvement Act designed to improve the background check system.

Pretty far from absolute zero.
 
Bucky said:
I never said that.

I said: Access to more guns = More homicides. Areas with more stricter gun control = Less crime.
Click to expand...

Actually, you said "This post is a deflection on the fact that more guns = more homicide." See post #9

The word access is not visible.

This is a fact which can be proven.
Click to expand...

Explain how Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine, states with extremely law gun laws, have such low homicide rates in comparison to strict gun law stats like Maryland and California?
 
Bucky said:
When the mass shooting happened in Newtown, Connecticut, it rocked me to my core. Adam Lanza had several guns and killed little children.

How many more mass shootings do we have to go through before gun control is enacted? The NRA and gun zealots are so extreme and evil they harass the parents of those who children were killed. Now, that's psychotic.

Our nation is swimming in a flood of guns. The U.S is such a violent country, and it gets exacerbated with the flood of weaponrys in our country.


Guns in the US: The statistics behind the violence - BBC News

Mass shooting in the U.S is not rare, and the killers are obtaining their guns legally.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-shootings-in-america/?utm_term=.bad73b116267

If stricter gun control laws lead to fewer deaths from gun-related violence, why is gun control not being demanded by the public?
Click to expand...

How often do we have to explain this stuff to people like you?? Making it harder for people to legally own and use firearms doesn't stop people from illegally owing and using them. Newtown could have been stopped had the school had an armed campus where the teachers/staff were trained and armed. The idiocy of banning firearms only makes more and easier targets.
 
Bucky said:
This post is a deflection on the fact that more guns = more homicide.

People die from other things, let's ignore the fact people are getting gunned down!
Click to expand...



No sir, it is a legitimate question. If saving lives is genuinely your motive, why not go after something that kills closer to 200k a year, like medical malpractice, than something that kills a small fraction of that number, like guns.

The true answer is that in some sense you don't like guns, fear guns, don't see a legitimate use for them, don't like people having them for some political reason, etc. Or you're reacting from emotion rather than reason, or else the greater part of your concern would be directed at one of the many things that kill far more Americans.


What specific proposed laws would have prevented Adam Lanza from committing slaughter? He already broke innumerable laws, committing many capital crimes.... what other law would have stopped him?
 
faithful_servant said:
How often do we have to explain this stuff to people like you?? ....
Click to expand...


Between 2 and 100 times per anti-gunner on DP, apparently. Number varying depending on how stubborn they are.


But keep explaining.... sometimes less vehement people change their minds when presented with facts, figures, logic and reason.
 
Bucky said:
What? Are you going to argue than access to more gun = less crime?

Now that is absurd.
Click to expand...

How so, the facts bare it out. Tell me, why is it pretty much every mass murder event occurs in a place where people aren't "allowed" to carry a gun?
 
TheGoverness said:
You think if there wasn't any guns, that they would somehow magically be no more homicide? Ridiculous.

Just look at the countries where most civilians don't have access to guns. There's a lot of mass stabbings that go on.
Click to expand...

And ironically..in many of these countries there is more homicide committed with a firearm.

I have never really understood how liberals and "conservatives".. (I use conservative loosely here).. can flip flop their stances between gun control and drug enforcement

Liberals point to how draconian drug enforcement clearly doesn;t work... yet think a mass shooter is going to stop because of a gun free zone sign, and that criminals will go through background checks

"conservatives" will point to the fallacy of criminals going through legal means to get a firearm.. and yet think that drug enforcement stops illegal drug trafficking.
 
Bucky said:
It seems you are also arguing laws do not cause change. Harsh laws against DUIs deter people from driving drunk. Would you argue drinking while driving shouldn't be a crime?
Click to expand...
Apples and oranges.
 
jaeger19 said:
And ironically..in many of these countries there is more homicide committed with a firearm.

I have never really understood how liberals and "conservatives".. (I use conservative loosely here).. can flip flop their stances between gun control and drug enforcement

Liberals point to how draconian drug enforcement clearly doesn;t work... yet think a mass shooter is going to stop because of a gun free zone sign, and that criminals will go through background checks

"conservatives" will point to the fallacy of criminals going through legal means to get a firearm.. and yet think that drug enforcement stops illegal drug trafficking.
Click to expand...

Yes, notice how Renae deflected the question. She supports lax gun laws but strict drug laws. That is hypocrisy.
 
Bucky said:
It seems you are also arguing laws do not cause change. Harsh laws against DUIs deter people from driving drunk. Would you argue drinking while driving shouldn't be a crime?
Click to expand...

That's a use restriction. People are allowed to own any number of cars, of any power, of any capacity, and to own any amount of alcohol, and even transport the alcohol in the cars. Actual DUIs are dangerous to society.

Gun bans are ownership restrictions. CCW in gun free zones aren't actual endangerment. Owning an AR-15 and 30 round magazines isn't an actual endangerment.
 
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