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Gun myth: people will still commit suicide even without guns[W589]

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camlok said:
Why then have successive US governments been able to turn you all into quivering sheeple with their varied and sundry boogeymen du jour?
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I see straw men walking. why are you so upset with the USA?
 
Bucky said:
You use handguns to kill flies and mosquitoes?

I know your intended purpose because you stated your intended purpose was for self-defense and protection.

I am not even sure what recreational gun use is. Is that like recreational drug use?
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When did I say that my only intended purpose was self defense and protection? And even then why is taking care of yourself a bad thing?

I live 2.3 miles from the nearest police station. 4 feet from my nearest weapon. Which one do you think will do me the most good?
 
Bucky said:
https://hub.jhu.edu/2017/08/17/high-suicide-rates-guns-rural-communities/

Conclusion. More guns = more suicides. The lies being peddeled by the gun-righters that people will find other methods is not true. It is not that hard to understand: Fewer guns = fewer deaths.
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Since 1999, the number of guns in the US has grown by 36%. The rate of gun suicide has grown by 15% over that same time period. The rate of hanging/suffocation suicide has grown by 92% over that same time period, to about 12k suicides a year.
 
Bucky said:
The problem with Chicago is the surrounding areas outside of Chicago have lax gun laws. Guns are not banned in Chicago, that is a lie. They have gun laws but they aren't strict enough.
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Librospeak. If the problem in Chicago is Indiana, then it would follow that gun murder in Indiana would be higher because guns would be even more obtainable for Indiana residents. Such is not the case.
 
Bucky said:
imo Maggie it would easier to remove guns from this country than illegal immigrants. guns have a more harmful effect on our society than illegal immigrants so that should be a higher priority.
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You can start taking away guns down on MLK Way. Let us know how many you get. Start with the guns that are possessed illegally.
 
Bucky said:
The problem with Chicago is the surrounding areas outside of Chicago have lax gun laws. Guns are not banned in Chicago, that is a lie. They have gun laws but they aren't strict enough.
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The problem with Chicago is the number of people who have no problem killing someone else. Vermont has laws gun laws, why isn't their homicide rate as high as Chicago's?

BTW, ATF says that the state that supplies the largest number of guns to criminals in Illinois is Illinois. Will more laws actually help? If a handgun in Indiana is purchased to sell in Chicago:

Indiana laws broken:

Illinois resident buying a handgun in Indiana without an FFL: felony
Illinois resident buying a handgun in Indiana with the intent to resell or otherwise transfer the handgun to another person who the transferor knows or has reason to believe is ineligible for any reason to purchase or otherwise receive a handgun: felony
Illinois resident buying a handgun in Indiana with the intent to ransport the handgun out of the state to be resold or otherwise provided to another person who the transferor knows is ineligible to purchase or otherwise receive a firearm: felony
Buying, selling or possessing stolen goods.

Illinois laws broken:

It is unlawful to carry or possess any firearm in any vehicle or concealed on or about the person, except on one’s land or in one’s abode or fixed place of business, without a license.
Selling a handgun without an FFL
Buying a gun without an FOID card
Buying ammo without an FOID caard
Buying a handgun under the age of 21
Selling a handgun without a 72 hour waiting period.

Possibly: Buying, selling or possessing stolen goods.
 
Rucker61 said:
The problem with Chicago is the number of people who have no problem killing someone else. Vermont has laws gun laws, why isn't their homicide rate as high as Chicago's?

BTW, ATF says that the state that supplies the largest number of guns to criminals in Illinois is Illinois. Will more laws actually help? If a handgun in Indiana is purchased to sell in Chicago:

Indiana laws broken:

Illinois resident buying a handgun in Indiana without an FFL: felony
Illinois resident buying a handgun in Indiana with the intent to resell or otherwise transfer the handgun to another person who the transferor knows or has reason to believe is ineligible for any reason to purchase or otherwise receive a handgun: felony
Illinois resident buying a handgun in Indiana with the intent to ransport the handgun out of the state to be resold or otherwise provided to another person who the transferor knows is ineligible to purchase or otherwise receive a firearm: felony
Buying, selling or possessing stolen goods.

Illinois laws broken:

It is unlawful to carry or possess any firearm in any vehicle or concealed on or about the person, except on one’s land or in one’s abode or fixed place of business, without a license.
Selling a handgun without an FFL
Buying a gun without an FOID card
Buying ammo without an FOID caard
Buying a handgun under the age of 21
Selling a handgun without a 72 hour waiting period.

Possibly: Buying, selling or possessing stolen goods.
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Registration would change a lot of that
 
YorkshirePete said:
Violent nation, founded by convicts and religious nuts.
Pathetic brave boy gun toters.
Never been in tranches or got the crap bombed out of them
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If I recall correctly, Yorky, when hiding in trenches proved ineffective, and talking to the bombers and getting to sign papers failed, the Brits did the only logical thing. Called the pathetic brave boy gun toters,

Who took care of the problem for them.
 
YorkshirePete said:
Violent nation, founded by convicts and religious nuts.
Pathetic brave boy gun toters.
Never been in tranches or got the crap bombed out of them
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"Tranches"? Uh.....yes, actually, American soldiers have spent quite a lot of time in trenches.
 
Bucky said:
The gun-nuts claim people are buying guns solely for self-defense and protection. Those in Houston need to buy guns to protect themselves against looters, etc..

That is not true. They are buying guns to inflict violence on each other. This idea that killers will use knives or other weapons is ridiculous. First, the number of deaths decreases significantly when non-fire arms are used and second, many killings are impulse killings. When guns are not involved and harder to obtain, impulse killings decline.
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One of the most ignorant, clueless posts I've read around here in a long time.... and that's saying something.






groucho-marx.jpg
 
gunsownedvsdeaths.jpg


RiflevsKnife.jpg
 
Bucky said:
https://hub.jhu.edu/2017/08/17/high-suicide-rates-guns-rural-communities/

Conclusion. More guns = more suicides. The lies being peddeled by the gun-righters that people will find other methods is not true. It is not that hard to understand: Fewer guns = fewer deaths.
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The logic that because X is the leading "tool" used for suicide (or homicide) means that private ownership of X should be banned is faulty. The next on the list of leading suicide methods (for men) is suffocation/hanging followed by poisons. For women the leading method for (cause of?) suicide is poison. I think that everyone would agree that banning "poisons" (including many OTC drugs) simply because they are the leading method chosen for suicide (by women) is insane.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
I never concern myself with adult suicide numbers when it comes to the gun control debate. I am a staunch believer in a person's right to end their own life.
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And in purchasing a firearm to accept the risk that they might rashly end their lives.
 
vegas giants said:
Its kind of laughable to compare the US to serbia and Yemen.
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While I agree what isn't nearly as laughable is the fact that the gun crime varies widely across the country and many places in the United States with lax gun laws have rates of gun crime as low as Europe. The variability is so great that to my non-trained-statistician mind there is no correlation between the two.
 
Gaius46 said:
While I agree what isn't nearly as laughable is the fact that the gun crime varies widely across the country and many places in the United States with lax gun laws have rates of gun crime as low as Europe. The variability is so great that to my non-trained-statistician mind there is no correlation between the two.
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The discussion is suicide and guns not crime. The correlation between states with lax gun laws and suicide is indeed very high
 
vegas giants said:
The discussion is suicide and guns not crime. The correlation between states with lax gun laws and suicide is indeed very high
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And if you want to use that point to educate people all well a good. It should not drive public policy with respect to firearm ownership.
 
Gaius46 said:
And if you want to use that point to educate people all well a good. It should not drive public policy with respect to firearm ownership.
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Of course it should....if you want to save lives
 
Bucky said:
The gun-nuts claim people are buying guns solely for self-defense and protection. Those in Houston need to buy guns to protect themselves against looters, etc..

That is not true. They are buying guns to inflict violence on each other. This idea that killers will use knives or other weapons is ridiculous. First, the number of deaths decreases significantly when non-fire arms are used and second, many killings are impulse killings. When guns are not involved and harder to obtain, impulse killings decline.
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Bull**** and unsubstantiated nonsense; AND you changed the subject away from suicide.

:failpail:
 
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