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Under Trump, gun sales fall dramatically

vegas giants said:
I find it sad that people will play with semantics when the fact remains it is INCREDIBLY easy for a criminal to buy an untraceable gun in this country.
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That is because it is incredibly easy for a criminal (convicted felon) to roam freely among us. Whether such a criminal (convicted felon) possess a traceable or untraceable gun is not the issue - it is already a crime (felony) for that prohibited person to possess a gun.

https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/felon-in-possession-of-a-weapon-laws.html
 
Bucky said:
Vegas, they don't understand. People need driver's license to drive. Their license could be revoked if they drive drunk. We should have the same expectation (if not more) for using a gun.
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I agree - convicted felons should lose any and all state issued privileges long before they lose any constitutional rights.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That is because it is incredibly easy for a criminal (convicted felon) to roam freely among us. Whether such a criminal (convicted felon) possess a traceable or untraceable gun is not the issue - it is already a crime (felony) for that prohibited person to possess a gun.

https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/felon-in-possession-of-a-weapon-laws.html
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We make the process incredibly easy for a criminal to buy a gun. And we already incarcerate more people per capita than anyone.
 
vegas giants said:
We make the process incredibly easy for a criminal to buy a gun. And we already incarcerate more people per capita than anyone.
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Yep, and here you are calling for more laws to add to that prison population. ;)

Basically, you are proposing continuing to allow known (convicted) dangerous felons to roam freely among us and locking up those that might possess or sell an unregistered gun.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Yep, and here you are calling for more laws to add to that prison population. ;)

Basically, you are proposing letting known dangerous felons roam freely among us and locking up those that might possess or sell an unregistered gun.
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Most gun control laws are preventative in nature
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Yep, and we already have laws that make it a serious crime (felony) for a prohibited person to simply possess a gun.
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And they do not work. We need better laws
 
vegas giants said:
And they do not work. We need better laws
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They would work much better if they were simply enforced. The problem is that many refuse to do so - they appear to see it as "unfair" that one could get a prison sentence of up to 10 years for simply having a gun in their home/car when they got less than that as a sentence for their original felony (or felonies). Morons allow folks to lie on form 4473 (a felony that can get you up to 5 years in prison) and seem completely satisfied with having denied that single attempt to illegally buy a gun. Do you really think that is a good idea?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
They would work much better if they were simply enforced. The problem is that many refuse to do so - they appear to see it as "unfair" that one could get a prison sentence of up to 10 years for simply having a gun in their home/car when they got less than that as a sentence for their original felony (or felonies). Morons allow folks to lie on form 4473 (a felony that can get you up to 5 years in prison) and seem completely satisfied with having denied that single attempt to illegally buy a gun. Do you really think that is a good idea?
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NO ONE wants to enforce those laws. NO ONE. Certainly not trump and the republicans, we need better laws
 
vegas giants said:
NO ONE wants to enforce those laws. NO ONE. Certainly not trump and the republicans, we need better laws
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What makes you think that the new law will be enforced any better?
 
vegas giants said:
It works quite well in canada
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We don't use Canadian Mounties to enforce our laws on US soil.

Who will be enforcing this law any better? The cops? The courts? Be specific to explain why laws that actually can't be enforced will be enforced better than current laws against felons?
 
Rucker61 said:
We don't use Canadian Mounties to enforce our laws on US soil.

Who will be enforcing this law any better? The cops? The courts? Be specific to explain why laws that actually can't be enforced will be enforced better than current laws against felons?
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The laws will be preventative in nature. Very few people are arrested for crimes with fully auto weapons. They are heavily restricted. Gun control works
 
vegas giants said:
The laws will be preventative in nature. Very few people are arrested for crimes with fully auto weapons. They are heavily restricted. Gun control works
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I guess those heavy restrictions are why cocaine, meth, and heroin can't be found anywhere in the US.
 
vegas giants said:
The laws will be preventative in nature. Very few people are arrested for crimes with fully auto weapons. They are heavily restricted. Gun control works
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They are heavily restricted thanks to the NFA of 1934 but do you think the people committing the crimes were first time offenders, or were they already criminals that just forgot to register their class 3 firearm they probably obtained illegally. Key words here are "arrested for crimes" not arrested for "fully auto weapons".
"The laws will be preventative in nature." Is that like saying it's a no,no and no one will break that law?
 
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zsu2357 said:
They are heavily restricted thanks to the NFA of 1934 but do you think the people committing the crimes were first time offenders, or were they already criminals that just forgot to register their class 3 firearm they probably obtained illegally. Key words here are "arrested for crimes" not arrested for "fully auto weapons".
"The laws will be preventative in nature." Is that like saying it's a no,no and no one will break that law?
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Works pretty well for full auto weapons
 
vegas giants said:
Works pretty well for full auto weapons
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So do you really think that's why everyone doesn't own a full auto weapon? If gun control works sooo good in that regard why do you need more? All full auto is is fire suppression and a waste of ammo,fun granted but a waste. Not to mention most people don't have thousands to pay for one.
 
vegas giants said:
The burden is on the government to help prevent felons from getting guns. There is an inadequacy OR LOOPHOOLE in the BGC system
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There is a problem in the system. NOT the law. The law is clear...felon...illegal. Ergo...no loophole. Now. I'm not a lawyer. I have debated this issue 1000 times and I am interested in legal history and so on. But this quote SHOULD clear up the confusion on why there is no loophole as you define it...

Loopholes are distinct from lacunae, although the two terms are often used interchangeably. In a loophole, a law addressing a certain issue exists, but the law can be legally circumvented due to a technical defect in the said law. A lacuna, on the other hand, is a situation whereby no law exists in the first place to address that particular issue.
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Do you see? The importance is that the law must be LEGALLY circumvented for it to be a loophole. It CANNOT be legally circumvented by a felon. There is no flaw legally speaking. There is a flaw in the practical application. Which is an important distinction BECAUSE one would require additional legislation. Another requires additional enforcement. And more important...one would find common ground for republicans and democrats and the other does not.

I know. I've already stated enforcement is a bag of cats somewhere on here. But if we can at least be realistic here...we make this a bag with one cat rather than bag of cats.
 
Rucker61 said:
You want to seriously kill gun sales? Have the Democrats quit trying to put more gun control in place.
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Every since the word "Gun Control" was invented, I have never once been restricted from Lawfully Buying a Gun ... not one single time in all my 50 years.

... and I live in Illinois :roll:
 
Cigar said:
Every since the word "Gun Control" was invented, I have never once been restricted from Lawfully Buying a Gun ... not one single time in all my 50 years.

... and I live in Illinois :roll:
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"Lawfully". Funny how that word has so much more behind it in Illinois than in nearly every other state. Prior to July 1, 2013, I could lawfully sell a hunting rifle to my brother without government involvement. Now I need forms, time, and cash, or I'm a criminal.
 
Rucker61 said:
"Lawfully". Funny how that word has so much more behind it in Illinois than in nearly every other state. Prior to July 1, 2013, I could lawfully sell a hunting rifle to my brother without government involvement. Now I need forms, time, and cash, or I'm a criminal.
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What's the big secret ... I sold my brother a car; it took me all of 15 minutes in title exchanges

... sure is cheaper than getting Married, Divorced or buying a Car of House.
 
Cigar said:
Every since the word "Gun Control" was invented, I have never once been restricted from Lawfully Buying a Gun ... not one single time in all my 50 years.

... and I live in Illinois :roll:
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go try to buy a machine gun made after May 19, 1986

go try to buy a normal capacity GLOCK magazine in NY or California or Connecticut or Maryland

Go try to buy a normal version of an AR 15 in California

your anecdotal argument is a complete fail
 
Cigar said:
What's the big secret ... I sold my brother a car; it took me all of 15 minutes in title exchanges

... sure is cheaper than getting Married, Divorced or buying a Car of House.
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But you see these forms used for guns are made out of a special kryptonite that kills gun nuts. LOL
 
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