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Simple Question on Gun Registration.

Captain Adverse

Captain Adverse

Classical Liberal Sage
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The Constitution identifies the right to keep and bear arms (i.e. to own and carry them) as an individual right like freedom of expression and freedom of worship. This has finally been confirmed by SCOTUS decisions in McDonald and Heller.

I've a very simple question for those who advocate registration of guns in any form...what purpose is served by requiring gun registration?

Here are some common purposes for registration:

1. Vehicle registration:

The purpose of motor vehicle registration is to establish a link between a vehicle and an owner or user of the vehicle. This link might be used for taxation or crime detection purposes.
Click to expand...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_registration

2. Voter Registration:

The requirement that a person otherwise eligible to vote register (or enroll) on an electoral roll before they will be entitled or permitted to vote.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_registration

3. Sex offender registration:

A system in various countries designed to allow government authorities to keep track of the residence and activities of sex offenders, including those who have completed their criminal sentences.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_offender_registry

Example #1 is about crime detection and taxation, #2 is about controlling access to something you are otherwise entitled to, while #3 is about keeping track of something.

So it seems to me that the purpose of gun registration would fall into one or more (if not all) of these categories; thus gun control is often justified as a means to more easily detect a gun used in a crime, to tax gun owners, to authorize ownership, and to keep track of which citizens own guns.

I wonder which of the above, or other reasons those who advocate for gun registration consider valid and why.

Why should they be taxed?

How does it detect crime?

Why control access (at least to those with no violent criminal record)?

Ultimately, why keep track of who owns, what they own, and where they are?
 
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Captain Adverse said:
The Constitution identifies the right to keep and bear arms (i.e. to own and carry them) as an individual right like freedom of expression and freedom of worship. This has finally been confirmed by SCOTUS decisions in McDonald and Heller.

I've a very simple question for those who advocate registration of guns in any form...what purpose is served by requiring gun registration?

Here are some common purposes for registration:

1. Vehicle registration:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_registration

2. Voter Registration:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_registration

3. Sex offender registration:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_offender_registry

Example #1 is about crime detection and taxation, #2 is about controlling access to something you are otherwise entitled to, while #3 is about keeping track of something.

So it seems to me that the purpose of gun registration would fall into one or more (if not all) of these categories; thus gun control is often justified as a means to more easily detect a gun used in a crime, to tax gun owners, to authorize ownership, and to keep track of which citizens own guns.

I wonder which of the above, or other reasons those who advocate for gun registration consider valid for registration and why.
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It would help prevent straw sales to criminals and prohibited persons
 
Bucky said:
Does common sense restriction on hate speech restrict it? Answer the question.
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There is no such thing as "common sense restrictions on hate speech."

Free speech/expression is the right to express yourself in any non-violent way, regardless of what others think about it.

The listener has the right to respond, or ignore you. Meanwhile that is off topic.
 
vegas giants said:
It would help prevent straw sales to criminals and prohibited persons
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I asked you earlier if you understood what a straw purchase was, and you replied "yes". Clearly you are mistaken. A straw purchase is when a non-prohibited person purchases a firearm from an FFL, filling out the Form 4473 where their name, address and serial number of the firearm are recorded. In other words, the gun is registered to the buy. The straw purchaser then sells the gun to an prohibited person.

Registration, check. Form, check. Background check, check. Registration does not do a single thing to stop straw purchases as every single straw purchase is de facto registered to the straw purchaser who sells the gun to the criminal.
 
Bucky said:
Does common sense restriction on hate speech restrict it? Answer the question.
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By definition any restriction on speech restricts it. You've presented a tautology.

What's your point?
 
Rucker61 said:
I asked you earlier if you understood what a straw purchase was, and you replied "yes". Clearly you are mistaken. A straw purchase is when a non-prohibited person purchases a firearm from an FFL, filling out the Form 4473 where their name, address and serial number of the firearm are recorded. In other words, the gun is registered to the buy. The straw purchaser then sells the gun to an prohibited person.

Registration, check. Form, check. Background check, check. Registration does not do a single thing to stop straw purchases as every single straw purchase is de facto registered to the straw purchaser who sells the gun to the criminal.
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It most definitely does. The non prohibited person can now sell that gun to anyone without a background check in many states. Registration stops that
 
vegas giants said:
It most definitely does. The non prohibited person can now sell that gun to anyone without a background check in many states. Registration stops that
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Do you realize that doesn't even make any sense? Do you realize criminals don't follow the law, hence the term "criminal"?
 
vegas giants said:
It most definitely does. The non prohibited person can now sell that gun to anyone without a background check in many states. Registration stops that
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It's already registered to them and they ignore that.
 
Captain Adverse said:
No, it wouldn't because it hasn't done so in the past and criminals don't follow the law.
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I can not make this simpler. Right now you have no idea if you are selling to a criminal in a private sale. You should at least be required to find out
 
Slingshot Bob said:
The serial # would lead right back to the original buyer. You have no valid point.
Click to expand...

How are you not getting this. The original buyer can sell it to someone now and not even know his name. There is no way to trace it. Registration and UBC's solves that
 
Captain Adverse said:
The Constitution identifies the right to keep and bear arms (i.e. to own and carry them) as an individual right like freedom of expression and freedom of worship. This has finally been confirmed by SCOTUS decisions in McDonald and Heller.

I've a very simple question for those who advocate registration of guns in any form...what purpose is served by requiring gun registration?

Here are some common purposes for registration:

1. Vehicle registration:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_registration

2. Voter Registration:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_registration

3. Sex offender registration:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_offender_registry

Example #1 is about crime detection and taxation, #2 is about controlling access to something you are otherwise entitled to, while #3 is about keeping track of something.

So it seems to me that the purpose of gun registration would fall into one or more (if not all) of these categories; thus gun control is often justified as a means to more easily detect a gun used in a crime, to tax gun owners, to authorize ownership, and to keep track of which citizens own guns.

I wonder which of the above, or other reasons those who advocate for gun registration consider valid and why.

Why should they be taxed?

How does it detect crime?

Why control access (at least to those with no violent criminal record)?

Ultimately, why keep track of who owns, what they own, and where they are?
Click to expand...

As you know, the other rights and especially that of worship have been undermined in recent years. It would seem then the liberal thing to do to regulate gun ownership, while maintaining the fiction of the right of ownership.
 
vegas giants said:
It is not registered to the second party that buys it
Click to expand...

It's purchased specifically for a criminal. That's what a straw purchase is. That criminal has no intention of registering it and indeed cannot even be charged for not registering it. No law will make that criminal/second party register that gun. That's the whole purpose of straw purchasing - to get a gun into the hands of a prohibited person, with the participants already committing multiple felonies to do so.

This has been explained to you multiple times. Even if every law abiding citizen registered their guns, straw purchasing would continue unabated.
 
vegas giants said:
It would help prevent straw sales to criminals and prohibited persons
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Straw sales and prohibited already are not allowed. Which makes the point. Criminals do not follow the law now, but certainly would if the law were different.
 
joG said:
As you know, the other rights and especially that of worship have been undermined in recent years. It would seem then the liberal thing to do to regulate gun ownership, while maintaining the fiction of the right of ownership.
Click to expand...

You can own guns but like all rights they are subject to restriction
 
jimbo said:
Straw sales and prohibited already are not allowed. Which makes the point. Criminals do not follow the law now, but certainly would if the law were different.
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You are not understanding that now in a private sale you do not even need to find out if you are selling to a criminal or not
 
vegas giants said:
I can not make this simpler. Right now you have no idea if you are selling to a criminal in a private sale. You should at least be required to find out
Click to expand...

Right now straw purchases and private sales are two completely different transactions. And yes, I know that selling, loaning or gifting a gun to my friends and family, or allowing a friend to hold a new gun for 30 seconds, does not involve a transfer to a prohibited person at all.
 
Rucker61 said:
It's purchased specifically for a criminal. That's what a straw purchase is. That criminal has no intention of registering it and indeed cannot even be charged for not registering it. No law will make that criminal/second party register that gun. That's the whole purpose of straw purchasing - to get a gun into the hands of a prohibited person, with the participants already committing multiple felonies to do so.

This has been explained to you multiple times. Even if every law abiding citizen registered their guns, straw purchasing would continue unabated.
Click to expand...

No. A straw sale means it is purchased for another person. You do not need to find out if he is a criminal or not. And therein lies the problem
 
Rucker61 said:
Right now straw purchases and private sales are two completely different transactions. And yes, I know that selling, loaning or gifting a gun to my friends and family, or allowing a friend to hold a new gun for 30 seconds, does not involve a transfer to a prohibited person at all.
Click to expand...

They are accomplished the exact same way
 
vegas giants said:
You are not understanding that now in a private sale you do not even need to find out if you are selling to a criminal or not
Click to expand...

In most states, true. In states with UBCs, even friends and family aren't to be trusted. That goes a long way in explaining the anti mindset.

My selling a bolt action rifle to my CCW friend isn't a straw purchase.
 
Rucker61 said:
In most states, true. In states with UBCs, even friends and family aren't to be trusted. That goes a long way in explaining the anti mindset.

My selling a bolt action rifle to my CCW friend isn't a straw purchase.
Click to expand...

You BELIEVE he currently has a valid CCW. You do not know that for sure
 
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