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Here We Go Again

Black Dog said:
OK I already said all this? Fact is it is a problem for blacks more so than most others at a rate of 3 times.
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No.
Per capita is not a relevant stat when determining who is shot most often.

Not all people interact with the police in such a manner, so you have to go by only those who do.



Excon said:
Police shoot more white folks in sheer numbers than they do blacks. If all things were equal, that is what should be expected.

If broken down by racial proportions, the numbers then reflect that the Police kill disproportionately more blacks than whites.
But the problem with that stat is that not all members of a race interact with police on a criminal level, so the whole number of a race can not be used for comparative purposes.
The numbers need to be broken down further to only those who interact with them.
When that is done it becomes clear that whites are shot more times than blacks are.


Whether officers, veterans or civilians, the subjects consistently hesitated longer before firing at black suspects and were much more likely to mistakenly shoot an unarmed white suspect, the researchers found. And when they failed to fire at an armed suspect — a potentially fatal mistake — the suspect was about five times more likely to be black than white. The study’s 36 police officers were the lone exception in failing to fire: The suspect’s race wasn’t a factor in their decision not to shoot. “The findings were very unexpected given the previous experimental research,” said Lois James, an assistant professor who conducted the research.

Are Police Bigoted?
Race and Police Shootings: Are Blacks Targeted More?



Adjusted to take into account the racial breakdown of the U.S. population, he said black men are 3.5 times more likely to be killed by police than white men. But also adjusted to take into account the racial breakdown in violent crime, the data actually show that police are less likely to kill black suspects than white ones.

“If one adjusts for the racial disparity in the homicide rate or the rate at which police are feloniously killed, whites are actually more likely to be killed by police than blacks,” said Mr. Moskos, a former Baltimore cop and author of the book “Cop in the Hood.”

“Adjusted for the homicide rate, whites are 1.7 times more likely than blacks die at the hands of police,” he said. “Adjusted for the racial disparity at which police are feloniously killed, whites are 1.3 times more likely than blacks to die at the hands of police.”

Police kill more whites than blacks, but minority deaths generate more outrage

Analysis contradicts widespread views about racial targets


The real racial bias: Cops more willing to shoot whites than blacks, research finds

It’s widely assumed that white police officers are more likely to shoot black suspects as a result of racial bias, but recent research suggests the opposite is true.​

The real racial bias: Cops more willing to shoot whites than blacks, research finds​
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Black Dog said:
Meh I don't know. I think I feel safer in here, lol. It's my safe space! Damnit! lol
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That's odd. Why don't you put it out in another forum dude; if you have to feel safe you ain't tryin.

Guns are certainly NOT the answer.
 
Excon said:
The fact remains that six of those jurors found his actions to be reasonable, while the other six did not.
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Well I'll be damned. The only accurate statement you have made in this whole thread. Bravo!
 
jet57 said:
That's odd. Why don't you put it out in another forum dude; if you have to feel safe you ain't tryin.

Guns are certainly NOT the answer.
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Dude it was a ****ing joke.
 
Black Dog said:
Did you watch the video and time it? He fired as the car started to move. less than 3 sec later he was running down the street. So no. The man was dead before there could have been any dragging.



Never going to happen, but we have to train them better I think.



I think the majority has to do with the war on drugs. We get rid of that and a huge amount of crime would vanish. Of course it would create a different set of problems, but probably easier to deal with as a society.
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I saw the photo/video evidence differently...but would probably benefit with the actual evidence presented at an actual trial before I could really make a decision about whether or not the shooting was justified. And I agree...it will never happen...but maybe it should. Sure...train them better...but there will still be incidents and cops will stilll be placed in dangerous situations and they will still have to act.Some of those actions will be wrong. Some will be questionable. Some will be right.

Yes...I agree...the war on drugs will change when they legalize certain drugs. And you are absolutely right...it will just manifest itself in another manner. We saw that with the mafia. Dry up one revenue source...they find another. So we will still face the same problems.
 
Black Dog said:
Old wife's tale. It does not come from prison.

Sagging Pants



So we should be scared and shoot them because they like 2 Pac and you I assume don't?



Well considering I am a black male with a black daughter who has had make black friends, they are trying to look cool like we did when we were young.

Yes your comments are very racist.
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Read your link. Like, all of it, lol. Sagging pants came from prison.

As for the rest of your post, you're not really selling your counter argument all that well.

So you're black, and your is daughter is, and she has black friends? I've got black friends too! What a coincidence. And guess what? My friends AGREE with me. Not only that...it is from them that I've come to this conclusion. Mind blown, right? Trying to look cool is fine, up until the point that your idea of looking cool is idolize get criminals, or people who emulate violent culture and criminality to sell a "hard" image, and copying criminal and prison culture. THATS what makes young black men targets.

There's good news, though. That culture is slowly but surely starting to give way. People are finally starting to learn that it's all fun and games at the local hip hop club, but outside of it, you gotta be an adult, if you want to be treated like one.
 
Black Dog said:
He was not being dragged. Complete and utter exaggeration. Then again considering the racist comment you made this is no surprise.
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The video clearly shows he was being dragged.
 
KevinKohler said:
The video clearly shows he was being dragged.
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No it doesn't. Especially since, you know, he wasn't dragged along as the car rolled ahead and crashed.
 
calamity said:
No it doesn't. Especially since, you know, he wasn't dragged along as the car rolled ahead and crashed.
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being in the Cincinnati media market, we get bombarded with news stories about this trial ad nauseum and I have heard hours of "experts" talk about this case. And Tensing screwed up by putting his hand inside the car. Shouldn't have done that. Now the State's expert admits while Tensing violated protocol, its a protocol that is commonly violated. But the only "dragging" that could be seen is AFTER Tensing shot the guy and the car went slightly forward.

Now the deceased was acting squirrelly and evasive: probably because he was a scum bag with a record and had felony weight dope in his car and a couple thousand dollars that undeniably was due to his participation in narcotics trafficking. Hence him acted evasive, uncooperative and squirrelly. And that most likely caused Tensing to think there was something fishy afoot.

still a bad shoot IMHPO. but not murder. reckless homicide was the proper charge to start with but the Prosecuting attorney apparently was pandering for political points. after that screw up in st Pauls was acquitted for doing much worse IMHPO, I would not try Tensing again the guy is toast as a cop, and probably has legal bills well over 100K to pay
 
TurtleDude said:
being in the Cincinnati media market, we get bombarded with news stories about this trial ad nauseum and I have heard hours of "experts" talk about this case. And Tensing screwed up by putting his hand inside the car. Shouldn't have done that. Now the State's expert admits while Tensing violated protocol, its a protocol that is commonly violated. But the only "dragging" that could be seen is AFTER Tensing shot the guy and the car went slightly forward.

Now the deceased was acting squirrelly and evasive: probably because he was a scum bag with a record and had felony weight dope in his car and a couple thousand dollars that undeniably was due to his participation in narcotics trafficking. Hence him acted evasive, uncooperative and squirrelly. And that most likely caused Tensing to think there was something fishy afoot.

still a bad shoot IMHPO. but not murder. reckless homicide was the proper charge to start with but the Prosecuting attorney apparently was pandering for political points. after that screw up in st Pauls was acquitted for doing much worse IMHPO, I would not try Tensing again the guy is toast as a cop, and probably has legal bills well over 100K to pay
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I don't think they's get a conviction for much of anything on this cop. The suspect's uncooperative, squirrelly behavior alone will put reasonable doubt in enough people's heads to hang a jury even if they tried the ex-cop on reckless endangerment. Add to that the attempt to flee, and I am even surprised they got six people to agree to guilty.
 
calamity said:
I don't think they's get a conviction for much of anything on this cop. The suspect's uncooperative, squirrelly behavior alone will put reasonable doubt in enough people's heads to hang a jury even if they tried the ex-cop on reckless endangerment. Add to that the attempt to flee, and I am even surprised they got six people to agree to guilty.
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they didn't

on the murder count

8 NG-4 G

on the voluntary Homicide count

7 NG, 5 G
 
TurtleDude said:
they didn't

on the murder count

8 NG-4 G

on the voluntary Homicide count

7 NG, 5 G
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I can see that. Even in the MN case, if I was on that jury, as bad as that video looks for the cop, would I vote guilty and send the cop away for doing what he did? Probably not.

The guy had a gun, he didn't follow instructions...reasonable doubt as to what the cop saw and why he reacted like that. Not Guilty.

The Cincinnati case is even more clear cut to a jury member: fleeing felon. No way I could vote guilty on that.

Bad shoots. Both. Crimes? Probably not.
 
TurtleDude said:
calamity said:
Add to that the attempt to flee, and I am even surprised they got six people to agree to guilty.
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they didn't

on the murder count

8 NG-4 G

on the voluntary Homicide count

7 NG, 5 G
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Unless calamity was speaking of the first trial (which doesn't seem to be the case), he was correct.

Tensing was tried for the first time in November. In that trial, four jurors thought he was guilty of murder, four others thought he was guilty of voluntary manslaughter, and the remaining four thought he was not guilty. The trial ended without a verdict.

The second trial ended with an even split Friday. Family members of DuBose called for a third trial.

Second mistrial for Ohio officer who shot and killed unarmed motorist​
 
Excon said:
No.
Per capita is not a relevant stat when determining who is shot most often.
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LMAO! Oh man you are so funny. Yes it is because you are trying to discount the size of the population.

Excon said:
Not all people interact with the police in such a manner, so you have to go by only those who do.
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I think you need your night time meds.

Here is just one part of the nonsense you posted...

If broken down by racial proportions, the numbers then reflect that the Police kill disproportionately more blacks than whites.But the problem with that stat is that not all members of a race interact with police on a criminal level, so the whole number of a race can not be used for comparative purposes. The numbers need to be broken down further to only those who interact with them.When that is done it becomes clear that whites are shot more times than blacks are. - Excon

Blacks make up 13% of the population. Whites make up 70% of the population. So the fact that there are more whites than blacks would bare out more whites getting shot. However per capita it tells the real story.
 
KevinKohler said:
Read your link. Like, all of it, lol. Sagging pants came from prison.

As for the rest of your post, you're not really selling your counter argument all that well.
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You are the one who thinks sagging pants is somehow racial. It's not like white younts do it... Oh wait, they do.

KevinKohler said:
So you're black, and your is daughter is, and she has black friends? I've got black friends too! What a coincidence. And guess what? My friends AGREE with me. Not only that...it is from them that I've come to this conclusion. Mind blown, right? Trying to look cool is fine, up until the point that your idea of looking cool is idolize get criminals, or people who emulate violent culture and criminality to sell a "hard" image, and copying criminal and prison culture. THATS what makes young black men targets.
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Right I believe you. :roll:

KevinKohler said:
There's good news, though. That culture is slowly but surely starting to give way. People are finally starting to learn that it's all fun and games at the local hip hop club, but outside of it, you gotta be an adult, if you want to be treated like one.
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Yea because only young black men need to grow up, right?
 
KevinKohler said:
The video clearly shows he was being dragged.
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The video clearly shows he shot the man as soon as the car started moving. 1 sec later according to the pictures and video he was no longer in the car window.

Stop with the exaggerations and dishonesty. I guess the laws of physics don't matter?
 
Black Dog said:
LMAO! Oh man you are so funny. Yes it is because you are trying to discount the size of the population.
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Your reply is lame.
Not all people interact with police in that manner. Period.
Of those who do, it is whites who are shot more often.




Black Dog said:
I think you need your night time meds.
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You are projecting.


As you failed to correctly quote the portion you did, I corrected it for you.

Black Dog said:
Here is just one part of the nonsense you posted...
Excon said:
Police shoot more white folks in sheer numbers than they do blacks. If all things were equal, that is what should be expected.

If broken down by racial proportions, the numbers then reflect that the Police kill disproportionately more blacks than whites.
But the problem with that stat is that not all members of a race interact with police on a criminal level, so the whole number of a race can not be used for comparative purposes.
The numbers need to be broken down further to only those who interact with them.
When that is done it becomes clear that whites are shot more times than blacks are.
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Blacks make up 13% of the population. Whites make up 70% of the population. So the fact that there are more whites than blacks would bare out more whites getting shot. However per capita it tells the real story.
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1. Your reply after the quote is basically what the first sentence in the quote says. Duh!

2. Wrong as usual, there was no nonsense in what I said.

All you have really done is show you are unable to understand what was said. Not just by me, but by the articles as well.

The whole number of a race can not be used for comparative purposes as it is not a reflection of those who interact with the police in such a manner.
It has to be further broken down into just those who interact in such a manner.

Your opposition to that is as irrational as it is stupid.
 
Excon said:
Nothing worth reading. This post edited by Black Dog
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Ywan. More of the same lame "Wrong as usual" crap you always post. You are basically saying...

But the problem with that stat is that not all members of a race interact with police on a criminal level, so the whole number of a race can not be used for comparative purposes.

Which is a really untrue racist blanket statement. You are implying most blacks as compared to whites interact with the police on a criminal level.
 
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Black Dog said:
You are the one who thinks sagging pants is somehow racial. It's not like white younts do it... Oh wait, they do.



Right I believe you. :roll:



Yea because only young black men need to grow up, right?
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Now you're changing your argument. It's ok, I'm wrong sometimes too.

You don't believe me that you and your daughter are black, and that she has black friends? How strange.

I never said only young black men need to grow up. You'll also note that I not once referred to a black culture, but to a criminal/violent culture. I'm well aware that that crap has no color. It's actually much more of a locational, economic thing. Just like the sagging pants. Comes from prison, not any one race or whatever.

It may interest you to know that more young white men get shot and killed by police every year than black. Course, it should be...there are more young white men than black. On a per capita basis, it IS uneven.

It may also interest you to know that I feel that black fellas get treated differently by the police. I've been in the car with my buddy when he was pulled over for driving while black. And roasted the officer for it, which ticked off my buddy.

That all stems from a perception issue. Where does the perception that young black men are more likely to be involved in criminal activity come from?
 
Black Dog said:
The video clearly shows he shot the man as soon as the car started moving. 1 sec later according to the pictures and video he was no longer in the car window.

Stop with the exaggerations and dishonesty. I guess the laws of physics don't matter?
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Due to the actions of the victim, the officer was dragged over 20 feet. The video proves that distance. You can say that the victim being shot caused this, but ultimately, you don't know.

What you DO know is that had the victim not resisted and in doing so held the officers arm against the steering wheel, and tried to get away by driving, knowingly putting the officer in harms way, he would still be alive today.
 
KevinKohler said:
Now you're changing your argument. It's ok, I'm wrong sometimes too.

You don't believe me that you and your daughter are black, and that she has black friends? How strange.
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I am not changing anything. I think I am just a little more qualified to talk about the black experience than you are yes.

KevinKohler said:
I never said only young black men need to grow up. You'll also note that I not once referred to a black culture, but to a criminal/violent culture. I'm well aware that that crap has no color. It's actually much more of a locational, economic thing. Just like the sagging pants. Comes from prison, not any one race or whatever.
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KevinKohler said:
Trying to look cool is fine, up until the point that your idea of looking cool is idolize get criminals, or people who emulate violent culture and criminality to sell a "hard" image, and copying criminal and prison culture. THATS what makes young black men targets.
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KevinKohler said:
If young black men want to change their image, they have to start with themselves. But they choose not to. They choose how they dress, they choose how they talk, they choose who to idolize.

Stereotypes become such for a reason.
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Hmmm... Could have fooled me.

KevinKohler said:
It may interest you to know that more young white men get shot and killed by police every year than black. Course, it should be...there are more young white men than black. On a per capita basis, it IS uneven.
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Already stated this. It is also correct.

KevinKohler said:
It may also interest you to know that I feel that black fellas get treated differently by the police. I've been in the car with my buddy when he was pulled over for driving while black. And roasted the officer for it, which ticked off my buddy.

That all stems from a perception issue. Where does the perception that young black men are more likely to be involved in criminal activity come from?
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I am glad you do recognize it.

As for your last question that's easy...

Gang's and the war on drugs, period.
 
Black Dog said:
The video clearly shows he shot the man as soon as the car started moving. 1 sec later according to the pictures and video he was no longer in the car window.

Stop with the exaggerations and dishonesty. I guess the laws of physics don't matter?
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He wasn't dragged at all. His body cam showed no movement consistent with being dragged, not even for a second. However, what is clear is that the perp started his car and drove off, being shot sometime immediately after the car began moving forward. Never, for one second, was the officer's life in danger but an unidentified potential felon was fleeing.

The question raised in this thread and its discussion focus should be: why the jury could not agree that this shooting was a crime? I believe that issue alone is a worthwhile topic worth tackling. Is police shooting people for reasons other than self-defense or defending others justified?
 
KevinKohler said:
Due to the actions of the victim, the officer was dragged over 20 feet.
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No it does not. He could have pulled his arm away from the car at any time. He was not trapped in any way and the driver was already dead. Nowhere in that video was he dragged.

KevinKohler said:
The video proves that distance. You can say that the victim being shot caused this, but ultimately, you don't know.
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The driver was dead as he was shot in the head and it shows in the still. It is physically impossible to get dragged 20 feet in one second unless the car was a top fuel dragster. It is amazing to me how you and Excon want to ignore physics.

KevinKohler said:
What you DO know is that had the victim not resisted and in doing so held the officers arm against the steering wheel, and tried to get away by driving, knowingly putting the officer in harms way, he would still be alive today.
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At no time did the victim hold the officer's arm against the steering wheel. HE WAS DEAD AS THE CAR STARTED TO MOVE. Your statement makes no sense and the video does not show this anyplace. That is just an out and out lie.
 
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