Concealed Carry traffic stop goes right

Lutherf · Jun 24, 2017

Yesterday I was driving back home from Phoenix and got pulled over near Casa Grande. I wasn't sure what I was getting pulled over for but figured it would be a good idea to stop and find out. Turns out the DPS officer was concerned about a crack I had in windshield. That kind of thing happens out here when it's 120° and I just hadn't got it fixed yet. Anyway, he asked for my driver's license, insurance and registration so I figured it would be a good idea to inform him that I had a 1911 on my right hip pretty close to where I was going to need to reach for my license. He was cool but I did notice a little bit of an "oh ****" eye roll from him. Please note that I had not moved my right arm from the top of the passenger seat and wasn't planning to until he was comfortable. He asked a few questions about how it was holstered and whether there was a round in the chamber then decided that it would be best if I used two fingers and disarmed. I suggested that I could just unclip the holster and give him the whole thing which seemed to make him a good bit happier. I also noticed that just about that time another cruiser pulled up behind his.

Anyway, he went back and did his ID check, wrote me a repair order and asked if it was OK if he just put the pistol under the passenger seat of my vehicle for the time being. He also pointed at the next exit and told me I could pull up there and rearm.

I realize that not every state is Arizona and the rules might be different elsewhere but if you are armed when you are engaged by the cops it's important that YOU are the one who remains calm, cool and non-threatening. Let that cop get control of the situation and don't spring any surprises on him. If you're armed, don't panic and start blurting stuff out. Even if your state has a "duty to inform" you need to do so in a calm and controlled manner. Odds are that he'd never have seen the gun when I pulled out my license but if he did and I hadn't informed him things could have gone differently. I also let him make the decision about what he wanted me to do. His training is to look for problems and stay in control. By explaining that I was going to have to reach for an area where there was a gun before I reached, he was afforded the opportunity to decide how he wanted to handle things. The end result is that all of us we able to continue our day without any unpleasantness.

I don't care what the laws are and what your rights are when it comes to these situations. The ultimate goal is to go home alive and that works best when all parties involved have a clear understanding of the situation they are in.

Skeptic Bob · Jun 24, 2017

Thanks for sharing. There are plenty of good videos on Youtube as well showing re-enacted and actual stops of everyone doing what they should. Sure, it is always possible that you will get a cop who has no business being a cop and puts your life in danger, but the fact that every single day hundreds, if not thousands, of legally armed Americans, of all creeds and colors, are stopped for traffic violations without incident is testament that the odds are highly in your favor.

I personally will always notify even in states where it isn't required. There are a couple reasons why. First, it reduces the chances of catching a cop off guard and causing him to panic. Not all cops would, but you never know who you are going to get. And second, it lets the the cop know you are cooperative, and if you live in a state where a permit is required, it lets the cop know that, at least to an extent, the government has cleared you previously as a law abiding citizen. All of which should put most officers at ease and, who knows, perhaps even increase the odds a bit that you get off with a warning. You know, in case that whole "going home alive" part isn't good enough reason.

Crosscheck · Jun 24, 2017

Am curious if one has a concealed carry permit but is not carrying at a traffic stop. Do you inform the officer you have a permit but not carrying or just wait to see if the subject comes up?

Lutherf · Jun 24, 2017

Crosscheck said:
Am curious if one has a concealed carry permit but is not carrying at a traffic stop. Do you inform the officer you have a permit but not carrying or just wait to see if the subject comes up?

Personally, I'd let the cop be the one to ask the question rather than volunteer anything. Your job is to make the cop as comfortable with the situation as possible and he's going to be most comfortable when he's the one asking the questions and getting the answers he's looking for.

RenoCon · Jun 24, 2017

Lutherf said:
Yesterday I was driving back home from Phoenix and got pulled over near Casa Grande...

Good job.

Crosscheck said:
Am curious if one has a concealed carry permit but is not carrying at a traffic stop. Do you inform the officer you have a permit but not carrying or just wait to see if the subject comes up?

In Nevada my CCW data is tied into the state computers with my drivers license. Since the officer knows I have a CCW once he approaches the car, I have been advised to hand the officer the CCW permit along with my drivers license and let him ask the questions. (i.e. You may not want to shout out "I have a gun" if there is a rooky officer peering in your passenger side window.

) In other states I would not even bring the subject up unless the officer brought it up. I just avoid California and their restrictive rules as much as possible.

Lord of Planar · Jun 24, 2017

Crosscheck said:
Am curious if one has a concealed carry permit but is not carrying at a traffic stop. Do you inform the officer you have a permit but not carrying or just wait to see if the subject comes up?

It's probably a good idea, because they will see you have a conceal carry permit when they check you out in their database.

Crosscheck · Jun 24, 2017

Lord of Planar said:
It's probably a good idea, because they will see you have a conceal carry permit when they check you out in their database.

I agree, of course the reality of this is that I have not been pulled over in at least 10 years. Definitely not going to be fumbling around in the seat.

Gonzo Rodeo · Jun 24, 2017

Crosscheck said:
Am curious if one has a concealed carry permit but is not carrying at a traffic stop. Do you inform the officer you have a permit but not carrying or just wait to see if the subject comes up?

It is the law to inform in Michigan. If you're not carrying, but have a permit, and fail to tell the officer you have the permit (even though the officer has access to that data), it is againat the law and is an instant revocation of your permit if the officer wishes to hold you to the letter of the law.

Similarly, if you have a permit and have a loaded pistol on your person, that is totally legal... but if you have a permit and the pistol is in a locked case in the trunk of your car, it has to be unloaded - not just without magazine, but the magazine must be empty too - or else that is against the law and warrants an instant revocation of your permit. Ironically, however, if you don't have a permit but have not properly separates your ammunition from a weapon in transit, it is a lesser offense. And if you have a BAC of .01 or higher and are a permit holder, your weapon must be separated from its ammunition, locked up, and the ammunition has to be locked up separately, whereas a non permit holder simply has to make the weapon "inaccessible", which could be unloaded and in the trunk of the car.

Michigan has the most schizophrenic gun laws. Very sportsman friendly in the northern part, and very stupid in the souther part.

cuban smokes · Jun 24, 2017

Lutherf said:
Yesterday I was driving back home from Phoenix and got pulled over near Casa Grande. I wasn't sure what I was getting pulled over for but figured it would be a good idea to stop and find out. Turns out the DPS officer was concerned about a crack I had in windshield. That kind of thing happens out here when it's 120° and I just hadn't got it fixed yet. Anyway, he asked for my driver's license, insurance and registration so I figured it would be a good idea to inform him that I had a 1911 on my right hip pretty close to where I was going to need to reach for my license. He was cool but I did notice a little bit of an "oh ****" eye roll from him. Please note that I had not moved my right arm from the top of the passenger seat and wasn't planning to until he was comfortable. He asked a few questions about how it was holstered and whether there was a round in the chamber then decided that it would be best if I used two fingers and disarmed. I suggested that I could just unclip the holster and give him the whole thing which seemed to make him a good bit happier. I also noticed that just about that time another cruiser pulled up behind his.

Anyway, he went back and did his ID check, wrote me a repair order and asked if it was OK if he just put the pistol under the passenger seat of my vehicle for the time being. He also pointed at the next exit and told me I could pull up there and rearm.

I realize that not every state is Arizona and the rules might be different elsewhere but if you are armed when you are engaged by the cops it's important that YOU are the one who remains calm, cool and non-threatening. Let that cop get control of the situation and don't spring any surprises on him. If you're armed, don't panic and start blurting stuff out. Even if your state has a "duty to inform" you need to do so in a calm and controlled manner. Odds are that he'd never have seen the gun when I pulled out my license but if he did and I hadn't informed him things could have gone differently. I also let him make the decision about what he wanted me to do. His training is to look for problems and stay in control. By explaining that I was going to have to reach for an area where there was a gun before I reached, he was afforded the opportunity to decide how he wanted to handle things. The end result is that all of us we able to continue our day without any unpleasantness.

I don't care what the laws are and what your rights are when it comes to these situations. The ultimate goal is to go home alive and that works best when all parties involved have a clear understanding of the situation they are in.

and lemme guess; you're not black?

CaptainCourtesy · Jun 24, 2017

cuban smokes said:
and lemme guess; you're not black?

Moderator's Warning:

Worthless trollbait earned you a thread ban. I'd appreciate it if no one responded to this stupidity since he's gone from the thread.

JLee1977 · Jun 24, 2017

My Glock bumper sticker on the back window of my vehicle should tell any police officer that the occupants are potentially armed. I make it a point to also have my ID and permit out of my wallet and ready before the officer even gets out of his vehicle.

Lutherf · Jun 24, 2017

Gonzo Rodeo said:
It is the law to inform in Michigan. If you're not carrying, but have a permit, and fail to tell the officer you have the permit (even though the officer has access to that data), it is againat the law and is an instant revocation of your permit if the officer wishes to hold you to the letter of the law.

Similarly, if you have a permit and have a loaded pistol on your person, that is totally legal... but if you have a permit and the pistol is in a locked case in the trunk of your car, it has to be unloaded - not just without magazine, but the magazine must be empty too - or else that is against the law and warrants an instant revocation of your permit. Ironically, however, if you don't have a permit but have not properly separates your ammunition from a weapon in transit, it is a lesser offense. And if you have a BAC of .01 or higher and are a permit holder, your weapon must be separated from its ammunition, locked up, and the ammunition has to be locked up separately, whereas a non permit holder simply has to make the weapon "inaccessible", which could be unloaded and in the trunk of the car.

Michigan has the most schizophrenic gun laws. Very sportsman friendly in the northern part, and very stupid in the souther part.

Yeah. From state to state the laws are all over the place but what really complicates things is that cops themselves are all over the place on the issue. That's why mission #1 needs to be doing everything you can to make sure that cop feels like he's in control. Furthermore, you never totally know why you're getting pulled over. It's always possible that the cop has it in his head that your vehicle resembles one used in a drive by shooting or something so let the cop come to you and let him or her explain why they are coming to you before you say anything.

Lutherf · Jun 24, 2017

JLee1977 said:
My Glock bumper sticker on the back window of my vehicle should tell any police officer that the occupants are potentially armed. I make it a point to also have my ID and permit out of my wallet and ready before the officer even gets out of his vehicle.

Everybody has to do things their own way but, personally, I'd be concerned that a bumper sticker like that would also tell a criminal that there might be a gun in the car or in the home where that car is parked.

Gonzo Rodeo · Jun 24, 2017

JLee1977 said:
My Glock bumper sticker on the back window of my vehicle should tell any police officer that the occupants are potentially armed. I make it a point to also have my ID and permit out of my wallet and ready before the officer even gets out of his vehicle.

My CCW class was told - very specifically - to not reach for anything before the officer asks you for it, even before he gets to the window. The assumption is you might be hiding something, or making a weapon ready.

Personally, I also get all of my papers out before the officer walks up. But I just think that speeds up the process, and at some point, the officer's personal comfort does directly impede on my time, comfort, and patience. I mean, they are people, but so am I, you know?

jimbo · Jun 24, 2017

Crosscheck said:
Am curious if one has a concealed carry permit but is not carrying at a traffic stop. Do you inform the officer you have a permit but not carrying or just wait to see if the subject comes up?

No. It doesn't matter is you are authorized to carry, just if you are carrying.

The last time I was stopped, for a sticker I had in the car but had not remembered to apply, the LEO didn't ask for my license, registration, or sticker. Hr already had that info, along with the fact of the CC permit. He asked if I was carrying. I was, 4 pistols. All went well.

While it's true you have a right to be a smart ass, it's generally not the best idea when dealing with LEO.

jimbo · Jun 25, 2017

RenoCon said:
Good job.

In Nevada my CCW data is tied into the state computers with my drivers license. Since the officer knows I have a CCW once he approaches the car, I have been advised to hand the officer the CCW permit along with my drivers license and let him ask the questions. (i.e. You may not want to shout out "I have a gun" if there is a rooky officer peering in your passenger side window. ) In other states I would not even bring the subject up unless the officer brought it up. I just avoid California and their restrictive rules as much as possible.

In any locality where I knew I was carrying legally I would always inform.

jimbo · Jun 25, 2017

Gonzo Rodeo said:
It is the law to inform in Michigan. If you're not carrying, but have a permit, and fail to tell the officer you have the permit (even though the officer has access to that data), it is againat the law and is an instant revocation of your permit if the officer wishes to hold you to the letter of the law.

Similarly, if you have a permit and have a loaded pistol on your person, that is totally legal... but if you have a permit and the pistol is in a locked case in the trunk of your car, it has to be unloaded - not just without magazine, but the magazine must be empty too - or else that is against the law and warrants an instant revocation of your permit. Ironically, however, if you don't have a permit but have not properly separates your ammunition from a weapon in transit, it is a lesser offense. And if you have a BAC of .01 or higher and are a permit holder, your weapon must be separated from its ammunition, locked up, and the ammunition has to be locked up separately, whereas a non permit holder simply has to make the weapon "inaccessible", which could be unloaded and in the trunk of the car.

Michigan has the most schizophrenic gun laws. Very sportsman friendly in the northern part, and very stupid in the souther part.

Which points out the problem of differing laws in differing areas.

There should be consistency across the USA. Like drivers licenses and license plate requirements.

Black Dog · Jun 25, 2017

Lutherf said:
Yesterday I was driving back home from Phoenix and got pulled over near Casa Grande. I wasn't sure what I was getting pulled over for but figured it would be a good idea to stop and find out. Turns out the DPS officer was concerned about a crack I had in windshield. That kind of thing happens out here when it's 120° and I just hadn't got it fixed yet. Anyway, he asked for my driver's license, insurance and registration so I figured it would be a good idea to inform him that I had a 1911 on my right hip pretty close to where I was going to need to reach for my license. He was cool but I did notice a little bit of an "oh ****" eye roll from him. Please note that I had not moved my right arm from the top of the passenger seat and wasn't planning to until he was comfortable. He asked a few questions about how it was holstered and whether there was a round in the chamber then decided that it would be best if I used two fingers and disarmed. I suggested that I could just unclip the holster and give him the whole thing which seemed to make him a good bit happier. I also noticed that just about that time another cruiser pulled up behind his.

Anyway, he went back and did his ID check, wrote me a repair order and asked if it was OK if he just put the pistol under the passenger seat of my vehicle for the time being. He also pointed at the next exit and told me I could pull up there and rearm.

I realize that not every state is Arizona and the rules might be different elsewhere but if you are armed when you are engaged by the cops it's important that YOU are the one who remains calm, cool and non-threatening. Let that cop get control of the situation and don't spring any surprises on him. If you're armed, don't panic and start blurting stuff out. Even if your state has a "duty to inform" you need to do so in a calm and controlled manner. Odds are that he'd never have seen the gun when I pulled out my license but if he did and I hadn't informed him things could have gone differently. I also let him make the decision about what he wanted me to do. His training is to look for problems and stay in control. By explaining that I was going to have to reach for an area where there was a gun before I reached, he was afforded the opportunity to decide how he wanted to handle things. The end result is that all of us we able to continue our day without any unpleasantness.

I don't care what the laws are and what your rights are when it comes to these situations. The ultimate goal is to go home alive and that works best when all parties involved have a clear understanding of the situation they are in.

If you are black, depending on the area and the officer the situation can go sideways no matter what you do. Castilo is a perfect example.

I don't carry anymore because of this. It's sad I have to be more concerned about being shot by police as a black man than a criminal. I am 3 times more likely to be killed by police even if I am unarmed or armed. It's not just black's either...

Black men are nearly three times as likely to be killed by legal intervention than white men, according to the study, which was published in the American Journal of Public Health on Tuesday. American Indians or Alaska Natives also are nearly three times as likely and Hispanic men are nearly twice as likely, the study suggests. - Black men nearly 3 times as likely to die from police use of force, study says - CNN.com

Now I am not making this a white vs black thing, it's not as like me there are and were plenty of black officers. It is a blue vs black thing.

The media and pop culture portrays young black men as criminals, entertainers and sports figures and little else. It permeates every aspect of our culture. So police see a black man he is immediately guilty of something. For example; waiting in the parking lot for a friend I drove to the currency exchange to get a money order. He comes back and we leave only to be pulled over because someone called about the "black guy sitting in the lot" so he must be up to no good. Then the officer gets mad because I will not let him search my car? Nonsense.

It's good you did everything right and the officer was calm. Unfortunatly for black men in particular, it ends badly no matter what.

Slingshot Bob · Jun 25, 2017

Black Dog said:
If you are black, depending on the area and the officer the situation can go sideways no matter what you do. Castilo is a perfect example.

I don't carry anymore because of this. It's sad I have to be more concerned about being shot by police as a black man than a criminal. I am 3 times more likely to be killed by police even if I am unarmed or armed. It's not just black's either...

Black men are nearly three times as likely to be killed by legal intervention than white men, according to the study, which was published in the American Journal of Public Health on Tuesday. American Indians or Alaska Natives also are nearly three times as likely and Hispanic men are nearly twice as likely, the study suggests. - Black men nearly 3 times as likely to die from police use of force, study says - CNN.com

Now I am not making this a white vs black thing, it's not as like me there are and were plenty of black officers. It is a blue vs black thing.

The media and pop culture portrays young black men as criminals, entertainers and sports figures and little else. It permeates every aspect of our culture. So police see a black man he is immediately guilty of something. For example; waiting in the parking lot for a friend I drove to the currency exchange to get a money order. He comes back and we leave only to be pulled over because someone called about the "black guy sitting in the lot" so he must be up to no good. Then the officer gets mad because I will not let him search my car? Nonsense.

It's good you did everything right and the officer was calm. Unfortunatly for black men in particular, it ends badly no matter what.

As a white who has had my share of harassment, I half agree.

Black Dog · Jun 25, 2017

Slingshot Bob said:
As a white who has had my share of harassment, I half agree.

I agree, whites vs blue especially when economically disadvantaged has similar problems. They tend to be not as deadly though.

Rucker61 · Jun 25, 2017

Black Dog said:
If you are black, depending on the area and the officer the situation can go sideways no matter what you do. Castilo is a perfect example.

I don't carry anymore because of this. It's sad I have to be more concerned about being shot by police as a black man than a criminal. I am 3 times more likely to be killed by police even if I am unarmed or armed. It's not just black's either...

Black men are nearly three times as likely to be killed by legal intervention than white men, according to the study, which was published in the American Journal of Public Health on Tuesday. American Indians or Alaska Natives also are nearly three times as likely and Hispanic men are nearly twice as likely, the study suggests. - Black men nearly 3 times as likely to die from police use of force, study says - CNN.com

Now I am not making this a white vs black thing, it's not as like me there are and were plenty of black officers. It is a blue vs black thing.

Why is this? I reviewed a propublica article with data that supports what your saying here. Why are cops so afraid of black men that they kill them in greater proportions? Any cops or ex-cops got any input?

Black Dog · Jun 25, 2017

Rucker61 said:
Why is this? I reviewed a propublica article with data that supports what your saying here. Why are cops so afraid of black men that they kill them in greater proportions? Any cops or ex-cops got any input?

Well I think it's conditioning. I mean look at the news and the war on drugs etc. Black men are portrayed as criminals and thugs every night. I mean don't get me wrong the problems in the inner city black community's are harsh and contribute greatly. Then on top of that you have young black men trying to perpetuate this stereotype, it's a recipe for disaster.

I don't know how to fix it, I just know it's bad.

Black Dog · Jun 25, 2017

Lutherf said:
Yesterday I was driving back home from Phoenix and got pulled over near Casa Grande. I wasn't sure what I was getting pulled over for but figured it would be a good idea to stop and find out. Turns out the DPS officer was concerned about a crack I had in windshield. That kind of thing happens out here when it's 120° and I just hadn't got it fixed yet. Anyway, he asked for my driver's license, insurance and registration so I figured it would be a good idea to inform him that I had a 1911 on my right hip pretty close to where I was going to need to reach for my license. He was cool but I did notice a little bit of an "oh ****" eye roll from him. Please note that I had not moved my right arm from the top of the passenger seat and wasn't planning to until he was comfortable. He asked a few questions about how it was holstered and whether there was a round in the chamber then decided that it would be best if I used two fingers and disarmed. I suggested that I could just unclip the holster and give him the whole thing which seemed to make him a good bit happier. I also noticed that just about that time another cruiser pulled up behind his.

Anyway, he went back and did his ID check, wrote me a repair order and asked if it was OK if he just put the pistol under the passenger seat of my vehicle for the time being. He also pointed at the next exit and told me I could pull up there and rearm.

I realize that not every state is Arizona and the rules might be different elsewhere but if you are armed when you are engaged by the cops it's important that YOU are the one who remains calm, cool and non-threatening. Let that cop get control of the situation and don't spring any surprises on him. If you're armed, don't panic and start blurting stuff out. Even if your state has a "duty to inform" you need to do so in a calm and controlled manner. Odds are that he'd never have seen the gun when I pulled out my license but if he did and I hadn't informed him things could have gone differently. I also let him make the decision about what he wanted me to do. His training is to look for problems and stay in control. By explaining that I was going to have to reach for an area where there was a gun before I reached, he was afforded the opportunity to decide how he wanted to handle things. The end result is that all of us we able to continue our day without any unpleasantness.

I don't care what the laws are and what your rights are when it comes to these situations. The ultimate goal is to go home alive and that works best when all parties involved have a clear understanding of the situation they are in.

I just realized I made a huge error and can't correct t it in the post so here..

It's good you did everything right and the officer was calm. Unfortunatly for black men in particular, it ends badly no matter what.

What I meant to say was...

It's good you did everything right and the officer was calm. Unfortunatly for black men in particular, it CAN SOMETIMES END badly no matter what.

Lutherf · Jun 25, 2017

Black Dog said:
If you are black, depending on the area and the officer the situation can go sideways no matter what you do. Castilo is a perfect example.

I don't carry anymore because of this. It's sad I have to be more concerned about being shot by police as a black man than a criminal. I am 3 times more likely to be killed by police even if I am unarmed or armed. It's not just black's either...

Black men are nearly three times as likely to be killed by legal intervention than white men, according to the study, which was published in the American Journal of Public Health on Tuesday. American Indians or Alaska Natives also are nearly three times as likely and Hispanic men are nearly twice as likely, the study suggests. - Black men nearly 3 times as likely to die from police use of force, study says - CNN.com

Now I am not making this a white vs black thing, it's not as like me there are and were plenty of black officers. It is a blue vs black thing.

The media and pop culture portrays young black men as criminals, entertainers and sports figures and little else. It permeates every aspect of our culture. So police see a black man he is immediately guilty of something. For example; waiting in the parking lot for a friend I drove to the currency exchange to get a money order. He comes back and we leave only to be pulled over because someone called about the "black guy sitting in the lot" so he must be up to no good. Then the officer gets mad because I will not let him search my car? Nonsense.

It's good you did everything right and the officer was calm. Unfortunatly for black men in particular, it ends badly no matter what.

Part of the reason I posted this was because of the Castile incident. I understand profiling and how it can influence various interactions. That's why it's so important to understand what "best practices" are when dealing with the cops.

I HIGHLY doubt that the reason I got stopped was for a crack in the windshield. I was driving down I-10 with about 100,000 other vehicles and a lot of those also had issues such as unsecure loads, bald tires, speeding and other stuff. The fact that the cop chose to pull me over likely had more to do with looking for drugs than anything else. His line of questioning after I stopped was geared to pick up some level of impairment or a story that didn't ring true. The windshield thing was just an excuse.

In Arizona you don't much need to concern yourself with getting pulled over because you're Black. That isn't really a "thing" in these parts. What is a "thing", however, is driving an older SUV solo or with just a couple of guys between Tucson and Phoenix. My vehicle and my appearance fit a profile for drug transport and I'm about 75% sure that was the purpose of the stop.

Rucker61 · Jun 25, 2017

Lutherf said:
Part of the reason I posted this was because of the Castile incident. I understand profiling and how it can influence various interactions. That's why it's so important to understand what "best practices" are when dealing with the cops.

I HIGHLY doubt that the reason I got stopped was for a crack in the windshield. I was driving down I-10 with about 100,000 other vehicles and a lot of those also had issues such as unsecure loads, bald tires, speeding and other stuff. The fact that the cop chose to pull me over likely had more to do with looking for drugs than anything else. His line of questioning after I stopped was geared to pick up some level of impairment or a story that didn't ring true. The windshield thing was just an excuse.

In Arizona you don't much need to concern yourself with getting pulled over because you're Black. That isn't really a "thing" in these parts. What is a "thing", however, is driving an older SUV solo or with just a couple of guys between Tucson and Phoenix. My vehicle and my appearance fit a profile for drug transport and I'm about 75% sure that was the purpose of the stop.

I live in Colorado. Colorado plates in the surrounding states definitely make you a target due to our legal weed.

Concealed Carry traffic stop goes right

Lutherf

Skeptic Bob

Crosscheck

Lutherf

RenoCon

Lord of Planar

Crosscheck

Gonzo Rodeo

better late than pregnant

cuban smokes

CaptainCourtesy

I'm a Jedi Master, Yo

JLee1977

Lutherf

Lutherf

Gonzo Rodeo

better late than pregnant

jimbo

jimbo

jimbo

Black Dog

King Of The Dog Pound

Slingshot Bob

Black Dog

King Of The Dog Pound

Rucker61

Black Dog

King Of The Dog Pound

Black Dog

King Of The Dog Pound

Lutherf

Rucker61