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Another Day, Another Person Who Could Have Lived On If They Had A Gun And Had Trainin

Re: Another Day, Another Person Who Could Have Lived On If They Had A Gun And Had Tra

Black Dog said:
Have any proof of that? Evidence? Or just more hot air? Just anecdotal evidence that means little or nothing in the realm of debate.
Click to expand...

do you have any memory? that fact has been posted on this board at least 10 times by me alone and by others as well. Most gun crimes involve felons shooting other felons. The sources have been cited and I really have better things to do than proving something you should have learned by now. Where is your demands that others prove the crap that our society is unsafe due to legal gun ownership? How many times must an assertion be proven by pro-rights advocates before you are actually able to remember it?
 
Re: Another Day, Another Person Who Could Have Lived On If They Had A Gun And Had Tra

I want everyone to remember this so the next time BD complains about a lack of proof, others can point out that he is ignoring stuff that has been posted before

Putting Gun Death Statistics in Perspective
But the reality is that gun homicides are overwhelmingly tied to gang violence. In fact, a staggering 80% of gun homicides are gang-related. According to the Center for Disease Control (CDC), gang homicides accounted for roughly 8,900 of 11,100 gun murders in both 2010 and 2011. That means that there were just 2,200 non gang-related firearm murders in both years in a country of over 300 million people and 250 million guns.


http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/crime-and-guns/

Most gun violence is between criminals. This should be the public policy focus.

GunCite: Gun Control - Gun Homicides

Contrary to myth and misrepresentation, most murders are not committed by previously law-abiding citizens either going berserk, or because a gun was handy during a moment of uncontrollable rage: suddenly "blow-away" their spouse, friend, neighbor, acquaintance, or all four.
Studies conducted at both the local and national level indicate the overwhelming majority of murders are committed by people with previous criminal records. Even a significant percentage of homicide victims themselves have criminal records.
Domestic homicides as well are preceded by a long history of violence. The "crime of passion" homicide is much more the exception rather than the rule.
Murder victimization is not egalitarian
 
Re: Another Day, Another Person Who Could Have Lived On If They Had A Gun And Had Tra

TurtleDude said:
I want everyone to remember this so the next time BD complains about a lack of proof, others can point out that he is ignoring stuff that has been posted before

Putting Gun Death Statistics in Perspective
But the reality is that gun homicides are overwhelmingly tied to gang violence. In fact, a staggering 80% of gun homicides are gang-related. According to the Center for Disease Control (CDC), gang homicides accounted for roughly 8,900 of 11,100 gun murders in both 2010 and 2011. That means that there were just 2,200 non gang-related firearm murders in both years in a country of over 300 million people and 250 million guns.


http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/crime-and-guns/

Most gun violence is between criminals. This should be the public policy focus.

GunCite: Gun Control - Gun Homicides

Contrary to myth and misrepresentation, most murders are not committed by previously law-abiding citizens either going berserk, or because a gun was handy during a moment of uncontrollable rage: suddenly "blow-away" their spouse, friend, neighbor, acquaintance, or all four.
Studies conducted at both the local and national level indicate the overwhelming majority of murders are committed by people with previous criminal records. Even a significant percentage of homicide victims themselves have criminal records.
Domestic homicides as well are preceded by a long history of violence. The "crime of passion" homicide is much more the exception rather than the rule.
Murder victimization is not egalitarian
Click to expand...

A pair of blogs is proof of what? That they have an opinion? No facts, no anything. So typical.

The most hilarious part is there source is another blog, LMAO!

https://www.thoughtco.com/gun-death-stats-in-perspective-3303385

Yea give us another one.

As for your second link. Good thing I actually read before I post...

"The overwhelming majority of people who shoot to kill are not convicted felons; in fact, most would be considered law-abiding citizens prior to their pulling the trigger."
--- Webster, Daniel W., C. Patrick Chaulk, Stephen P. Teret, and Garen J. Wintemute. "Reducing Firearm Injuries." Issues in Science and Technology. Spring 1991, p.73.

Sort of puts a damper on your initial statement huh?
 
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Re: Another Day, Another Person Who Could Have Lived On If They Had A Gun And Had Tra

Black Dog said:
A pair of blogs is proof of what? That they have an opinion? No facts, no anything. So typical.
Click to expand...

What is the opposite position? That most violence, including gun violence, is committed by first time offenders?

More importantly, why did you ignore all of the cites in the linked articles, including sources from CDC and Bureau of Justice Statistics?
 
Re: Another Day, Another Person Who Could Have Lived On If They Had A Gun And Had Tra

Rucker61 said:
What is the opposite position? That most violence, including gun violence, is committed by first time offenders?
Click to expand...

I don't know. So far no one on either side has posted evidence of anything.
 
Re: Another Day, Another Person Who Could Have Lived On If They Had A Gun And Had Tra

Rucker61 said:
What is the opposite position? That most violence, including gun violence, is committed by first time offenders?

More importantly, why did you ignore all of the cites in the linked articles, including sources from CDC and Bureau of Justice Statistics?
Click to expand...

I have not read through the entire thread. Please feel free to post a link to this info and I will read it.

PS I just went through the whole thread and I saw no stats that show what TD is saying, other than the blogs he posted. SO where is all these "sources?"
 
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Re: Another Day, Another Person Who Could Have Lived On If They Had A Gun And Had Tra

Black Dog said:
A pair of blogs is proof of what? That they have an opinion? No facts, no anything. So typical.

The most hilarious part is there source is another blog, LMAO!

https://www.thoughtco.com/gun-death-stats-in-perspective-3303385

Yea give us another one.

As for your second link. Good thing I actually read before I post...

"The overwhelming majority of people who shoot to kill are not convicted felons; in fact, most would be considered law-abiding citizens prior to their pulling the trigger."
--- Webster, Daniel W., C. Patrick Chaulk, Stephen P. Teret, and Garen J. Wintemute. "Reducing Firearm Injuries." Issues in Science and Technology. Spring 1991, p.73.

Sort of puts a damper on your initial statement huh?
Click to expand...

one of the things I cited took that crap apart.
 
Re: Another Day, Another Person Who Could Have Lived On If They Had A Gun And Had Tra

Rucker61 said:
What is the opposite position? That most violence, including gun violence, is committed by first time offenders?

More importantly, why did you ignore all of the cites in the linked articles, including sources from CDC and Bureau of Justice Statistics?
Click to expand...

because he isn't interested in actually learning about the topic. most people who commit murder already have extensive records.
 
Re: Another Day, Another Person Who Could Have Lived On If They Had A Gun And Had Tra

Rucker61 said:
What is the opposite position? That most violence, including gun violence, is committed by first time offenders?

More importantly, why did you ignore all of the cites in the linked articles, including sources from CDC and Bureau of Justice Statistics?
Click to expand...

Are you under the impression that Blackdog is anti-gun or anti-2A?

We are surely not drinking buddies, but I've interacted with BD enough to know he's quite solidly pro-2A.
(Unless something has DRASTICALLY changed in the last few months that I don't know about, which is possible because I don't stumble into this area of DP very often)
 
Re: Another Day, Another Person Who Could Have Lived On If They Had A Gun And Had Tra

Dragonfly said:
Are you under the impression that Blackdog is anti-gun or anti-2A?

We are surely not drinking buddies, but I've interacted with BD enough to know he's quite solidly pro-2A.
(Unless something has DRASTICALLY changed in the last few months that I don't know about, which is possible because I don't stumble into this area of DP very often)
Click to expand...

he was before the election. now he wants every argument by pro rights posters to have detailed proof even if that proof has been posted here for years, and he doesnt' demand the same of the bannerrhoid movement members.

the fact is-most gun crime is committed by a small percentage of criminals who cannot legally own firearms in the first place

that is why laws that target people who can legally own guns are fairly worthless in decreasing gun crime because those laws do not change the legal environment of those who do most of the unlawful shootings. They already are banned from owning any firearm. So "assault weapon bans" magazine limits, registration, etc don't target the people who cause most of the problems
 
Re: Another Day, Another Person Who Could Have Lived On If They Had A Gun And Had Tra

TurtleDude said:
he was before the election. now he wants every argument by pro rights posters to have detailed proof even if that proof has been posted here for years, and he doesnt' demand the same of the bannerrhoid movement members.
Click to expand...

No. That is a lie. I want people to back up what they say with more than lip service. As for your Trump nonsense. I did not vote for Hillary or Trump and don't really care about either. It is also a lie I don't demand evidence from others as I demand it from everyone.

The dishonesty and hyperbole in your statement noted.
 
Re: Another Day, Another Person Who Could Have Lived On If They Had A Gun And Had Tra

TurtleDude said:
because he isn't interested in actually learning about the topic. most people who commit murder already have extensive records.
Click to expand...

I don't need to "learn about the topic" as I was a cop. I know as much about it as you. Difference is I am willing to back my comments with real evidence rather than hot air.
 
Re: Another Day, Another Person Who Could Have Lived On If They Had A Gun And Had Tra

TurtleDude said:
I want everyone to remember this so the next time BD complains about a lack of proof, others can point out that he is ignoring stuff that has been posted before

Putting Gun Death Statistics in Perspective
But the reality is that gun homicides are overwhelmingly tied to gang violence. In fact, a staggering 80% of gun homicides are gang-related. According to the Center for Disease Control (CDC), gang homicides accounted for roughly 8,900 of 11,100 gun murders in both 2010 and 2011. That means that there were just 2,200 non gang-related firearm murders in both years in a country of over 300 million people and 250 million guns.


http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/crime-and-guns/

Most gun violence is between criminals. This should be the public policy focus.

GunCite: Gun Control - Gun Homicides

Contrary to myth and misrepresentation, most murders are not committed by previously law-abiding citizens either going berserk, or because a gun was handy during a moment of uncontrollable rage: suddenly "blow-away" their spouse, friend, neighbor, acquaintance, or all four.
Studies conducted at both the local and national level indicate the overwhelming majority of murders are committed by people with previous criminal records. Even a significant percentage of homicide victims themselves have criminal records.
Domestic homicides as well are preceded by a long history of violence. The "crime of passion" homicide is much more the exception rather than the rule.
Murder victimization is not egalitarian
Click to expand...

This is evidence...

Firearm-related homicides declined 39%, from 18,253 in
1993 to 11,101 in 2011.

„ Nonfatal firearm crimes declined 69%, from 1.5 million
victimizations in 1993 to 467,300 victimizations in 2011.

„ For both fatal and nonfatal firearm victimizations, the
majority of the decline occurred during the 10-year period
from 1993 to 2002.

„ Firearm violence accounted for about 70% of all homicides
and less than 10% of all nonfatal violent crime from 1993 to
2011.

„ About 70% to 80% of firearm homicides and 90% of
nonfatal firearm victimizations were committed with a
handgun from 1993 to 2011.

„ From 1993 to 2010, males, blacks, and persons ages 18 to 24
had the highest rates of firearm homicide.


„ In 2007-11, about 23% of victims of nonfatal firearm crime
were injured.

„ About 61% of nonfatal firearm violence was reported to
the police in 2007-11.

„ In 2007-11, less than 1% of victims in all nonfatal violent
crimes reported using a firearm to defend themselves
during the incident.

„ In 2004, among state prison inmates who possessed a gun
at the time of offense, less than 2% bought their firearm at
a flea market or gun show and 40% obtained their firearm
from an illegal source. - https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311.pdf

Raw data to back up an argument. No conjecture or bias here, just facts. This is what people need to be doing instead of just shouting down others who disagree from either side.
 
Re: Another Day, Another Person Who Could Have Lived On If They Had A Gun And Had Tra

Black Dog said:
This is evidence...

Firearm-related homicides declined 39%, from 18,253 in
1993 to 11,101 in 2011.

„ Nonfatal firearm crimes declined 69%, from 1.5 million
victimizations in 1993 to 467,300 victimizations in 2011.

„ For both fatal and nonfatal firearm victimizations, the
majority of the decline occurred during the 10-year period
from 1993 to 2002.

„ Firearm violence accounted for about 70% of all homicides
and less than 10% of all nonfatal violent crime from 1993 to
2011.

„ About 70% to 80% of firearm homicides and 90% of
nonfatal firearm victimizations were committed with a
handgun from 1993 to 2011.

„ From 1993 to 2010, males, blacks, and persons ages 18 to 24
had the highest rates of firearm homicide.


„ In 2007-11, about 23% of victims of nonfatal firearm crime
were injured.

„ About 61% of nonfatal firearm violence was reported to
the police in 2007-11.

„ In 2007-11, less than 1% of victims in all nonfatal violent
crimes reported using a firearm to defend themselves
during the incident.

„ In 2004, among state prison inmates who possessed a gun
at the time of offense, less than 2% bought their firearm at
a flea market or gun show and 40% obtained their firearm
from an illegal source. - https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311.pdf

Raw data to back up an argument. No conjecture or bias here, just facts. This is what people need to be doing instead of just shouting down others who disagree from either side.
Click to expand...

how many new arguments have the bannerrhoids presented on this board in say the last 6 years?

here is what we get

1) there is a gun show loophole and if that loophole was closed, felons would have a much harder time getting guns. That nonsense has been destroyed many times over

2) any magazine that holds more than 10 rounds has no legitimate use by civilians

3) semi auto rifles are "weapons of war"

anything else? its the same discredited talking points over and over.

here is something you DO NOT seem to get.

attacking the facade bannerrhoids throw up with facts does little since the facade they erect is NOT WHAT MOTIVATES THEM
 
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