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Using a firearm to defend oneself is not legal, because it denies a fair trial.

Renae said:
I know you're so intellectually vapid that all you have is strawmen, so I'll just stop responding now. I clearly defined the difference between use of a gun that is justified and unjustified.
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That was never the argument...

Renae said:
There is no "just", it's all he's done this thread, I was bored and wanted to see how far he'd go. He's circled back to dishonest strawmen so I'm done, I advise you not engage him
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You created the Straw Man... if you don't want it pointed out then don't engage in it.

Folks, this is why Bodhisattva isn't worth your time. I'd advise not engaging him in conversation, he's the sort of poster that gives forums a bad name.

Goodbye bodi.
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Instead of conducting personal attacks next time you might want to research the topic so that you are better prepared and can make an argument that makes sense.
 
Rucker61 said:
Morals are subjective. Feel free not to own a gun, if it makes you feel better.
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Innocent people dying from guns is a nationwide issue... not something that affects just my morals, but people's lives.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Innocent people dying from guns is a nationwide issue... not something that affects just my morals, but people's lives.
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There are other ways to address that concern than by adopting a moralistic viewpoint not supported in law.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Unbelievable!!! I never thought I would hear that...

It is preferable to have innocent people killed... :roll:
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Let me see if I got this straight. If a person or persons want to kill or otherwise maim you or a loved one then they are innocent and no action should be taken against them because they may be killed or maimed?
What's not right here.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Innocent people dying from guns is a nationwide issue... not something that affects just my morals, but people's lives.
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It's pretty much an epidemic. But, gun zealots will downplay the roughly 35,000 gun deaths in the US. That we can bet on.
 
Written by someone who has never been raped or assaulted no doubt.
 
calamity said:
It's pretty much an epidemic. But, gun zealots will downplay the roughly 35,000 gun deaths in the US. That we can bet on.
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"Pretty much an epidemic". That's a phrase that pretty much means nothing. It does sound frightening, though, doesn't it?

We could say that morally it's wrong to commit suicide, and we could prevent 20,000 of those deaths, if we could just get those people to adopt that thought. We could say that murder is immoral, and prevent the 15,500 or so deaths if people would just go along with us.

We could also say that if you murder someone, we'll execute you or incarcerate you for life; if you commit a felony with a gun we'll keep you behind bars for 15 years, and actually enforce those sentences.
 
zsu2357 said:
Let me see if I got this straight. If a person or persons want to kill or otherwise maim you or a loved one then they are innocent and no action should be taken against them because they may be killed or maimed?
What's not right here.
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Your conclusion...
 
calamity said:
It's pretty much an epidemic. But, gun zealots will downplay the roughly 35,000 gun deaths in the US. That we can bet on.
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Absolutely... and appealing to the morality of the issue doesn't reach them either.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Absolutely... and appealing to the morality of the issue doesn't reach them either.
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Feel free to start confiscating guns. Do your high morals have an equal amount of huevos to go with them, or are they just situational? Do you feel that we have the moral right to stop someone from committing suicide?

We're a nation of laws. Feel free to pass Constitutional, enforceable, effective and necessary laws to stop homicides. Better look at the makeup of Congress, the White House and SCOTUS first.
 
Rucker61 said:
"Pretty much an epidemic". That's a phrase that pretty much means nothing. It does sound frightening, though, doesn't it?

We could say that morally it's wrong to commit suicide, and we could prevent 20,000 of those deaths, if we could just get those people to adopt that thought. We could say that murder is immoral, and prevent the 15,500 or so deaths if people would just go along with us.

We could also say that if you murder someone, we'll execute you or incarcerate you for life; if you commit a felony with a gun we'll keep you behind bars for 15 years, and actually enforce those sentences.
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35,000 gun deaths, 3500 of them children, I'd say that's a significant number which would have most normal people examining the problem instead of whitewashing it. But, we all know gun zealots are not normal.
 
Rucker61 said:
Feel free to start confiscating guns. Do your high morals have an equal amount of huevos to go with them, or are they just situational? Do you feel that we have the moral right to stop someone from committing suicide?

We're a nation of laws. Feel free to pass Constitutional, enforceable, effective and necessary laws to stop homicides. Better look at the makeup of Congress, the White House and SCOTUS first.
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I don't want to confiscate guns but those with guns should at least be following the 2nd and SCOTUS rulings do not follow it either...

My morals do not lead me to steal... I would not steal a person's property... but nice try sounding like a tough guy... :lol:
 
calamity said:
lol...Jesus does love his guns. It seems.
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Jesus loves self-defense... even it it means killing the other guy. I think that was a basic tenet of his teaching.
 
calamity said:
35,000 gun deaths, 3500 of them children, I'd say that's a significant number which would have most normal people examining the problem instead of whitewashing it. But, we all know gun zealots are not normal.
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Gosh, we should do something. Let's start enforcing our gun laws more effectively.
 
Bodhisattva said:
I don't want to confiscate guns but those with guns should at least be following the 2nd and SCOTUS rulings do not follow it either...
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Elaborate.
 
Rucker61 said:
"Pretty much an epidemic". That's a phrase that pretty much means nothing. It does sound frightening, though, doesn't it?

We could say that morally it's wrong to commit suicide, and we could prevent 20,000 of those deaths, if we could just get those people to adopt that thought. We could say that murder is immoral, and prevent the 15,500 or so deaths if people would just go along with us.

We could also say that if you murder someone, we'll execute you or incarcerate you for life; if you commit a felony with a gun we'll keep you behind bars for 15 years, and actually enforce those sentences.
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People do say it is morally wrong to commit suicide... and as a society we try to stop them. At the end of the day they are only hurting themselves though... or the 35,000 gun deaths though, how many are innocent and how many are children?
 
Rucker61 said:
Elaborate.
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Imminent attack detected...

The 2nd allows for an armed citizenry that is the make-up of the militia.

The individual aspect is to make up the militia... not just so people can individually own their own weapon.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Jesus loves self-defense... even it it means killing the other guy. I think that was a basic tenet of his teaching.
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He strikes me as a shoot first and ask questions later kind of guy. "Let the Heavenly Father sort it out."
 
calamity said:
He strikes me as a shoot first and ask questions later kind of guy. "Let the Heavenly Father sort it out."
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...and the, "well, if innocent kids gotta die then that is what's gotta happen for me to own my beloved gun".
 
Bodhisattva said:
None were designed specifically to kill... not Slippery Slope Straw Man though...
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So what? Guns can kill. The threat of that alone makes them useful for defense. It is the threat of being shot and potentially killed that allows them to act as a deterrence whether used by the military, law enforcement or the average Joe/Jane.

I think a better example than banning cars would be banning alcohol as it is has no real benefit to society and is a poisonous substance which chemically alters conciousness and destroys brain tissue. Causes people to commit violent crime, murder, rape, child abuse, suicide etc. Costs society exponentially more in medical costs and loss of productivity than firearms. But that's fine because it makes us dance better and more attractive so we can overlook the costs because it is all about personal responsibility and no one has the right to tell us what grown adults can or cannot drink. Guns on the other hand are icky and if I do not want to own one then no one can...

Btw, I am one of the personal responsibility types for alcohol as well as firearms. Love a good, frosty beer myself.
 
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Rucker61 said:
Gosh, we should do something. Let's start enforcing our gun laws more effectively.
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I don't expect to see that happening under Jeff Sessions at all.
 
Bodhisattva said:
...and the, "well, if innocent kids gotta die then that is what's gotta happen for me to own my beloved gun".
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"I teach my kids how to handle guns safely. Screw everyone else's kids."
 
Bodhisattva said:
People do say it is morally wrong to commit suicide... and as a society we try to stop them. At the end of the day they are only hurting themselves though... or the 35,000 gun deaths though, how many are innocent and how many are children?
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Do you feel that we are enforcing out laws properly in such a way as to deter criminals from getting guns illegally and using them illegally?
 
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