The Modern Modular Pistol APX vs SIG 320

Exactice · Apr 19, 2017

braindrain said:
I agree with a lot of your post but a few things I do take issue with.

First racking the slide one handed is very easy and takes all of about 5 minutes to teach someone how to do it. And my personal opinion the odds of losing a hand and then having a malfunction that can be fixed my pullingbtye trigger again on a beretta are so rare it is not worth the price of the horrible trigger pull the M9 has. ........

Can I just say thank you for your service and your respectable responses. Usually many "debates" get heated, its amazing to have a conversation with someone and not have to feel escalation! So my respect to you and your character.

With that, I probably would correct my self as we are not debating, we are agreeing on so much LOL, we are more "splitting hairs" as to finding faults within the M9 system that has served its purpose and served well enough LOL!

responding to you would again be on situation and usage. So your experience is extremely valid and my experience in no way degrades yours, we just ran into issues. So again its one of those that need to go to the review tables, AAR and the military needs to really review the boots on ground and build around the "regular" soldiers.

To respond directly to your points. Yeah the slide thing is just an object statement of design from the M9, realistically speaking, the probably of my examples are so low.... again just finding what ever reasons I can find HAHA.

Night firing, again from your experience and mine, it just differ and preference. Sorta like a red dot, halo, acog, chevron, what you prefer. I guess I can say I am an originalist, and keep my weapons stripped and simple, to include my primary and secondary weapons. So again all preference. My experience in addition to being in the sandbox, was an instructor for the Navy, so I taught a lot inside a ship, and lights/tactical lights, would be horrible night blindness within a tight ship so learning to shoot in extreme low light, NVG's etc. is a whole nother experience.

Mags are mags, Pmags are awesome as well, I have them but....still love my steele mags, just updated them and they work fine!

Finally the Gas systems for me, is likely due to weapons update and usage. Our systems stayed in the armories for years and then Bam deployed out of no where and the weapons were put into full usage.... failures like crazy, over gassing, under gassing, gastube failures, massive fouling, clogged systems, never really had bolt issues, just gas issues for us.

"Converting" my apologies was an excuse, dont get me wrong the HK 416 is a base AR plat form, but WAY better design than the M4 Colt LE6940 =)

Finally.... I am supper jealous LOL, I was your everyday run soldier....... we didnt get suppressors LOL...... still have the tinnitus in my left ear to prove it HAHHA!

Anyways again thank you for your service and thank you for your respectful responses!

Rucker61 · Apr 19, 2017

Exactice said:
Finally the Gas systems for me, is likely due to weapons update and usage. Our systems stayed in the armories for years and then Bam deployed out of no where and the weapons were put into full usage.... failures like crazy, over gassing, under gassing, gastube failures, massive fouling, clogged systems, never really had bolt issues, just gas issues for us.

What over/undergassing issues were you seeing? I thought those were mainly due to adjustable gas blocks and non-standard ammo.

Finally.... I am supper jealous LOL, I was your everyday run soldier....... we didnt get suppressors LOL...... still have the tinnitus in my left ear to prove it HAHHA!

We didn't even get optics, and had to adjust elevation with the front sight post. We still even had left/right hand guards and some open flash hiders.

Exactice · Apr 19, 2017

Rucker61 said:
What over/undergassing issues were you seeing? I thought those were mainly due to adjustable gas blocks and non-standard ammo.

We didn't even get optics, and had to adjust elevation with the front sight post. We still even had left/right hand guards and some open flash hiders.

So from my limited experience, what I dealt with was OLD M4's that were hardly shot, and not cleaned properly, Those sat in the armory for a long time and then got yanked for some hard core duty.

1) The fouling was HORRIBLE! Lol. Depending on who did the actual maintenance especially when they finally modified the handguards from polymer to metal picattinny those idiots installed the gas blocks wrong/ crooked.

2) some of the gas tubes were dented or had cracks.

3) Some of the gas blocks were corroded and or "stuck" and caused under gassing.

4) The bolt keys were not maintained well causing gas leakage through the rings etc

All of the above, was due to "user maintenance" so not directly the weapons fault, but the gas impingement system has its "Flaws"

With that my "second" life, we dealt with a lot of MK18 Mod 0's and those short carbines and high rate of fires were touch as hell LOL.. we blew out a couple of gas tubes.... yeah probably shot it a little harder than we should have LOL.

As for optics, WE JUST got the COOs, when I was in, but I preferred Iron sights anyways. Was not a fan of the ACOG, and my M25 hand a Leupold Mk4, in addition to m XM107. love those MK4

Anyways... again just different experiences thats all. That is where preference falls.

braindrain · Apr 21, 2017

Exactice said:
Can I just say thank you for your service and your respectable responses. Usually many "debates" get heated, its amazing to have a conversation with someone and not have to feel escalation! So my respect to you and your character.

With that, I probably would correct my self as we are not debating, we are agreeing on so much LOL, we are more "splitting hairs" as to finding faults within the M9 system that has served its purpose and served well enough LOL!

responding to you would again be on situation and usage. So your experience is extremely valid and my experience in no way degrades yours, we just ran into issues. So again its one of those that need to go to the review tables, AAR and the military needs to really review the boots on ground and build around the "regular" soldiers.

l
Finally.... I am supper jealous LOL, I was your everyday run soldier....... we didnt get suppressors LOL...... still have the tinnitus in my left ear to prove it HAHHA!

Anyways again thank you for your service and thank you for your respectful responses!

Thank you for your service as well and I also enjoy the conversation. It is interesting to me to see other people's experiences and preferences. And it is pretty clear we agree on the major issues with only minor differences that are most likely based on things like difference between our mission focus, available equipment and other such things that vary by the job we do and the time we did them.

I feel very fortunate to be able to do the job I do. I really enjoy the work and I do get to play with some rather cool pieces of kit. More importantly I get to work with some extremely great dudes. Don't get me wrong it took a lot of work to get there and even more to stay with it but it's worth it. That said even with the suppresses i to have some fairly bad tinnitus as well. Loud work environment and being a tad to close to a number of odes will do that lol.

braindrain · Apr 21, 2017

Exactice said:
So from my limited experience, what I dealt with was OLD M4's that were hardly shot, and not cleaned properly, Those sat in the armory for a long time and then got yanked for some hard core duty.

1) The fouling was HORRIBLE! Lol. Depending on who did the actual maintenance especially when they finally modified the handguards from polymer to metal picattinny those idiots installed the gas blocks wrong/ crooked.

2) some of the gas tubes were dented or had cracks.

3) Some of the gas blocks were corroded and or "stuck" and caused under gassing.

4) The bolt keys were not maintained well causing gas leakage through the rings etc

All of the above, was due to "user maintenance" so not directly the weapons fault, but the gas impingement system has its "Flaws"

With that my "second" life, we dealt with a lot of MK18 Mod 0's and those short carbines and high rate of fires were touch as hell LOL.. we blew out a couple of gas tubes.... yeah probably shot it a little harder than we should have LOL.

As for optics, WE JUST got the COOs, when I was in, but I preferred Iron sights anyways. Was not a fan of the ACOG, and my M25 hand a Leupold Mk4, in addition to m XM107. love those MK4

Anyways... again just different experiences thats all. That is where preference falls.

Never got a chance to shoot the M25 but never was a fan of the Barret. We have them but almost never use them. Much prefer our XM2010s. 300WM is a great round. We also have the M110s and the SR25s. Virtually ever long gun of ours all have one version of the Horus reticle or another with the Tremor3 being the one that is currently phasing out the 58s and 59s. Love the Horus.

Exactice · Apr 21, 2017

braindrain said:
Never got a chance to shoot the M25 but never was a fan of the Barret. We have them but almost never use them. Much prefer our XM2010s. 300WM is a great round. We also have the M110s and the SR25s. Virtually ever long gun of ours all have one version of the Horus reticle or another with the Tremor3 being the one that is currently phasing out the 58s and 59s. Love the Horus.

Im assuming you are part of the new generation LOL! I am just a tad older it seems. The funny part with the M25 was it was just a heavy @$$ version of the EBR thats all. Wood Stock... Parkerized and accurized by Raytheon. Thats about it, oh and the full auto welded off. Other than that accurate semi auto 7.62 x 51 LOL meant as a DMR/overwatch for my PSD team.

With that, the Barrets were useless as well for us. the only good thing was clearing out sinuses and bloody noses.... That and the hours digging through 50cal rounds looking for the Mk211v rounds. Yes we had the protos hence the XM....not just the M..... with that the older generation Mk4 optics. Would LOVE to have the Nightforce or Horus Vision systems they have now..... again though I would say I am originalist so the old simple stuff works fine.

My 2 experiences were a "dream" while in the sandbox, I did some "cool" stuff and worked with some amazing people. After getting out and contracted, Working as an instructor for the Navy was another amazing experience, especially working with the VBSS teams, and some of the UDT operators... Hell of amazing peopel and put me in my place. Talk about humbling LOL!

Anyways.... getting my permit to acquire within my state.... still looking at options, the G19 still looking good.... Will have to consider the P320 if it fits.... but for now..... this is still a "preference" thing HAHAH!