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Maryland's Gun ban failure

Breitbart "News"? Really, Turtle?
 
Phys251 said:
Breitbart "News"? Really, Turtle?
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if you actually can contradict the factual assertions do so. DO you think left wing bannerrhoid publications like the washington post are going to point out what a failure the idiotic laws the anti gun scumbags in MD have passed>
 
TurtleDude said:
if you actually can contradict the factual assertions do so. DO you think left wing bannerrhoid publications like the washington post are going to point out what a failure the idiotic laws the anti gun scumbags in MD have passed>
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Breitbart has problems that are too numerous to mention. Thankfully, you did provide another source:

TurtleDude said:
Here is the underlying article

https://www.thetrace.org/2017/03/high-capacity-magazine-ban-baltimore-police/

I suspect most anti gun types do not realize its almost impossible to ban normal capacity magazines given they have no serial number, can be easily bought in most states, and returning military often has tons of them that are not exactly tracked with rigor
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But gun control supporters will respond that Maryland is within easy access of much more permissive gun states, such as Virginia, which renders Maryland's mag limit moot.
 
Phys251 said:
Breitbart has problems that are too numerous to mention. Thankfully, you did provide another source:



But gun control supporters will respond that Maryland is within easy access of much more permissive gun states, such as Virginia, which renders Maryland's mag limit moot.
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LMAO!!

He didn't provide another source. He provided the source linked to in the article which, apparently, you chose to ignore merely because it was Breitbart.
 
Phys251 said:
Breitbart has problems that are too numerous to mention. Thankfully, you did provide another source:



But gun control supporters will respond that Maryland is within easy access of much more permissive gun states, such as Virginia, which renders Maryland's mag limit moot.
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so their solution is to pass more laws that people who cause the problems won't follow anyway

there are millions upon millions of normal capacity magazines in the USA. I have a bag of M16 mags a buddy gave me when he got back from overseas duty. The magazines are almost a yellow finish since the original finish wore off of them. The armorer in his unit was going to chuck them out and this fellow asked if he could grab them and did. anyone with a cursory knowledge can keep a decent magazine working for decades. and the stuff being made today-especially the Lancer brand and the Magpuls are really well made. I cannot even tell you how many AR 15 20 and 30 round magazines I have. and most serious shooters are similar. Gun control is based on the idiocy that the people least likely to obey real laws will be deterred by gun laws. and its based on the dishonesty that its criminals who are being targeted with such idiotic laws.

the bottom line should be-ANYTHING state police can use in terms of firearms, the other citizens of the state ought to be allowed to own. If its too dangerous for a citizen to be allowed to keep in his home, its surely too dangerous for cops to carry around and use on the streets.
 
Lutherf said:
LMAO!!

He didn't provide another source. He provided the source linked to in the article which, apparently, you chose to ignore merely because it was Breitbart.
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Good catch-you were paying attention!
 
Lutherf said:
LMAO!!

He didn't provide another source. He provided the source linked to in the article which, apparently, you chose to ignore merely because it was Breitbart.
Click to expand...

Breitbart is a right-wing propaganda site. The crap they peddle there is not worthy of any kind of respect. Turtle did me a favor by linking to the story within it (and the Trace appears to be an interesting news/blog site, BTW).
 
TurtleDude said:
if you actually can contradict the factual assertions do so. DO you think left wing bannerrhoid publications like the washington post are going to point out what a failure the idiotic laws the anti gun scumbags in MD have passed>
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Come on Turtle, you KNOW all violent criminals obey gun control laws to the letter. That's why there is so little gun crime in highly gun controlled areas like Chicago...

;)
 
TurtleDude said:
so their solution is to pass more laws that people who cause the problems won't follow anyway

there are millions upon millions of normal capacity magazines in the USA. I have a bag of M16 mags a buddy gave me when he got back from overseas duty. The magazines are almost a yellow finish since the original finish wore off of them. The armorer in his unit was going to chuck them out and this fellow asked if he could grab them and did. anyone with a cursory knowledge can keep a decent magazine working for decades. and the stuff being made today-especially the Lancer brand and the Magpuls are really well made. I cannot even tell you how many AR 15 20 and 30 round magazines I have. and most serious shooters are similar. Gun control is based on the idiocy that the people least likely to obey real laws will be deterred by gun laws. and its based on the dishonesty that its criminals who are being targeted with such idiotic laws.

the bottom line should be-ANYTHING state police can use in terms of firearms, the other citizens of the state ought to be allowed to own. If its too dangerous for a citizen to be allowed to keep in his home, its surely too dangerous for cops to carry around and use on the streets.
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So in other words, if, hypothetically, the entire public were rendered unable to buy any more 15+ round mags, the sheer volume of out there means that the ones remaining might last for a decade or so?
 
Phys251 said:
So in other words, if, hypothetically, the entire public were rendered unable to buy any more 15+ round mags, the sheer volume of out there means that the ones remaining might last for a decade or so?
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First of all no state law can ban them and second what happened when heroin (or alcohol for that matter) was banned nationwide? The bottom line is that criminals simply don't obey laws - someone willing to commit a violent crime is unlikely to be deterred by using an illegal tool to do so. This state law makes as much sense as banning ski masks or bolt cutters in order to deter their (ab)use by criminals.
 
Phys251 said:
So in other words, if, hypothetically, the entire public were rendered unable to buy any more 15+ round mags, the sheer volume of out there means that the ones remaining might last for a decade or so?
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Good grief man think for a change. When have criminals ever been denied by and absolutely idiotic ban? How is it possible that in this day and age there are people so naive that they think criminals buy there supplies and needs from legal outlets?

When alcohol was banned where did all the alcohol come from?
When certain drugs were banned where do all the illegal drugs come from?

Now there was no shortage of alcohol during prohibition and there is absolutely no shortage of illegal drugs on the streets, available now in quantities greater than ever previously. How do you explain that other than this world is full of idiots who will believe anything?
 
Phys251 said:
Breitbart "News"? Really, Turtle?
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Well I read Mother Jones and Bloemturd stuff I don't relegate it to the trash heap just because it was presented by them. I make the effort to correct where they are wrong and very seldom right. They do have one advantage and spend a fortune on research and often contain gems of data not available form others sources.

Discredit by tar brush is what happens when the ideologically blind have nothing.
 
Phys251 said:
Breitbart is a right-wing propaganda site. The crap they peddle there is not worthy of any kind of respect. Turtle did me a favor by linking to the story within it (and the Trace appears to be an interesting news/blog site, BTW).
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What would you call the CDC, Mother Jones, Everytown, The Huffington Post........

The best book on this subject, with exhaustive research presented, is The Bias Against Guns, by John Lott Jr., Ph.D.

For example, John Lott reports that in 2001, USA Today ran 5,660 words on gun crimes and zero words on defensive gun uses (DGUs); The New York Times ran 50,745 words about gun crime and a single 163-word story about an off-duty police officer who used his gun to prevent a crime; The Washington Post in that time period balanced its 46,884 words on gun crime with 2 percent, or 953 words, on defensive use. The three networks combined (ABC, CBS, NBC) ran 190,000 words on gun crime and not a single word on self defense. ~~News Bias on Guns Studied

Unless you like firearm owners have to do can refute what is claimed you do not have a leg to stand on with the crap the mainstream media regurgitates. Few if any of them are reliable sources using your yardstick.
 
Phys251 said:
So in other words, if, hypothetically, the entire public were rendered unable to buy any more 15+ round mags, the sheer volume of out there means that the ones remaining might last for a decade or so?
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Or more. AR15 magazines used in the Vietnam War are still used today, as are WWII magazines. When you consider that a magazine is just a box with a follower and a spring, none of which is illegal to repair or replace, it's naive to think that laws against their possession mean anything. With the advent of 3d printing they can be made in the home.

Even if every normal magazine disappeared magically overnight to be replaced by the Degette Fairy with 10 round magazines, there would be no measurable effect on crime or mass shootings.
 
TheGoverness said:
Why the **** do people think that criminalizing high capacity magazines is gonna somehow reduce gun violence.

It's totally ridiculous.
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what is the benefit of a high capacity magazine; why is it so essential to be used instead of a lower capacity one?
 
What's to stop me from buying gun powder, and pouring it into some plumbing pipe, stuffing it with nails, and capping both sides?


If your worried about wonton havoc and destruction, guns are the absolute least of your concerns.
 
TurtleDude said:
if you actually can contradict the factual assertions do so. DO you think left wing bannerrhoid publications like the washington post are going to point out what a failure the idiotic laws the anti gun scumbags in MD have passed>
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If you would just ignore such distractions they will stop. Dont engage.
 
KevinKohler said:
What's to stop me from buying gun powder, and pouring it into some plumbing pipe, stuffing it with nails, and capping both sides?


If your worried about wonton havoc and destruction, guns are the absolute least of your concerns.
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yes. if you are intent on causing havoc, there is little that can be done to prevent that
however, creating that pipe bomb requires more effort and knowledge than most criminals are willing to expend/know
i am not willing sacrifice the good of removing most perps because it does not accomplish the perfect of removing all perps
 
justabubba said:
yes. if you are intent on causing havoc, there is little that can be done to prevent that
however, creating that pipe bomb requires more effort and knowledge than most criminals are willing to expend/know
i am not willing sacrifice the good of removing most perps because it does not accomplish the perfect of removing all perps
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But youre willing to toss the kids out with the bath water, my man. To go after those would be perps (who, by definition, flout the law in the first place), you're going to handicap every single legal gun owner.


Sorry, but my line is with turtle dude on this one. If the police (US citizens first) need it, and can have it, to protect themselves from criminals, then so should everyone else (Who are also US citizens).
 
justabubba said:
yes. if you are intent on causing havoc, there is little that can be done to prevent that
however, creating that pipe bomb requires more effort and knowledge than most criminals are willing to expend/know
i am not willing sacrifice the good of removing most perps because it does not accomplish the perfect of removing all perps
Click to expand...

As you say, the perps are the problem, not the tool they choose to use. Remove the perps, not the tools that non-perps also use to protect themselves from the perps. Perps will only find new tools to advance their criminal exploits.
 
justabubba said:
what is the benefit of a high capacity magazine; why is it so essential to be used instead of a lower capacity one?
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One, it's what we have already. Two, it does allow the gun to be fired more without reloading, and it's a more efficient use of space in a handgun. Three, and most importantly, if the government can pick an arbitrary capacity for a magazine and have it be Constitutional, then any number can be declared the maximum capacity, like "two". There's nothing scientific at all about "ten". We've seen in recent years, in various locales, declarations and laws that in order to protect the public the maximum capacity of a magazine is the magic number twenty, or fifteen, or ten, or even seven. We've seen legislation that the most ammunition anyone could legally own at one time would be a limit based on twice the capacity of the magazine of any particular firearm.

A magazine capacity restriction on it's face violates Miller and Heller.
 
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