• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns [W:100]

Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

TurtleDude said:
I call complete BS on that nonsense and there is no proof of that. furthermore, there are many areas in the world that have higher rates of suicide than the USA does and No legal gun ownership.
Click to expand...

You didn't know Ruger's have that sort of influence over people?

It's a daily struggle for a gun owners not to "off" themselves.

Get with the program sport!
 
Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

Astonished said:
Since the constitution clearly says WELL REGULATED why are you fighting so hard against the constitutionally required regulations?
Click to expand...

You forgot a few other important important words that tie the 2nd amendment together.

Stop cherry picking.
 
Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

RetiredUSN said:
You forgot a few other important important words that tie the 2nd amendment together.

Stop cherry picking.
Click to expand...

I didn't think you'd want me to mention the militia.....that would mean you should only have a gun if you're in the well regulated militia.
 
Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

Astonished said:
I didn't think you'd want me to mention the militia.....that would mean you should only have a gun if you're in the well regulated militia.
Click to expand...

And you would still miss the mark of intention.

Keep trying.
 
Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

Astonished said:
I didn't think you'd want me to mention the militia.....that would mean you should only have a gun if you're in the well regulated militia.
Click to expand...
Who is/was the militia? Do you recognize that a 'well regulated militia' meant that there was a basic structure and 'the people' all charged with the responsibility to keep arms and ammunition and be trained in the use of said weapons?

I personally LOVE the 'militia' argument. What the 'militia' argument means is that all able bodied citizens are not only authorized but expected to keep and bear combat capable firearms.
 
Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

VanceMack said:
Who is/was the militia? Do you recognize that a 'well regulated militia' meant that there was a basic structure and 'the people' all charged with the responsibility to keep arms and ammunition and be trained in the use of said weapons?

I personally LOVE the 'militia' argument. What the 'militia' argument means is that all able bodied citizens are not only authorized but expected to keep and bear combat capable firearms.
Click to expand...

The militia is a well regulated group of Americans who are ready to fight if needed since there's no standing army at the time of the 2nd amendment. Now that there's an army there's no need for the well regulated militia and so therefore the 2nd amendment is pretty much null and void.

The cherry pickers are you guys who act like "well regulated militia" isn't there. It's there and it's the only reason that there is a right to keep and bear arms. Without the first part the second part has no meaning.
 
Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

Astonished said:
The militia is a well regulated group of Americans who are ready to fight if needed since there's no standing army at the time of the 2nd amendment. Now that there's an army there's no need for the well regulated militia and so therefore the 2nd amendment is pretty much null and void.

The cherry pickers are you guys who act like "well regulated militia" isn't there. It's there and it's the only reason that there is a right to keep and bear arms. Without the first part the second part has no meaning.
Click to expand...
History laughs at you.
Alexander Hamilton: “…that standing army can never be formidable (threatening) to the liberties of the people, while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in the use of arms.”
Alexander Hamilton: “Little more can be aimed at with respect to the people at large than to have them properly armed and equipped.” (Id) {responding to the claim that the militia itself could threaten liberty}” There is something so far-fetched, and so extravagant in the idea of danger of liberty from the militia that one is at a loss whether to treat it with gravity or raillery (mockery).
Patrick Henry: “The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun.”
Thomas Jefferson: “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”
George Mason: “I ask you sir, who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people.”

I could go on...but the facts dont seem to matter to you.

Perhaps you could just settle with a better understanding of the US Code.

WE are the militia. Every able bodied citizen NOT in the standing military, postal service, certain government officials and conscientious objectors.
 
Last edited:
Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

Astonished said:
The militia is a well regulated group of Americans who are ready to fight if needed since there's no standing army at the time of the 2nd amendment. Now that there's an army there's no need for the well regulated militia and so therefore the 2nd amendment is pretty much null and void.

The cherry pickers are you guys who act like "well regulated militia" isn't there. It's there and it's the only reason that there is a right to keep and bear arms. Without the first part the second part has no meaning.
Click to expand...

Another classic example of ignorance of the 2nd amendment.

There was already a standing army when the 2nd amendment became law.

In fact, the army took one of it's worst beatings ever in 1791 under Major General Arthur St. Clair
 
Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

Astonished said:
The militia is a well regulated group of Americans who are ready to fight if needed since there's no standing army at the time of the 2nd amendment. Now that there's an army there's no need for the well regulated militia and so therefore the 2nd amendment is pretty much null and void.

The cherry pickers are you guys who act like "well regulated militia" isn't there. It's there and it's the only reason that there is a right to keep and bear arms. Without the first part the second part has no meaning.
Click to expand...

That claim has been shown to be false multiple times, starting at least in 1876 with US v Cruikshank. It's the second part that stands on its own, and the first part fails without the second part.

See also 10 USC 311.
 
Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

jet57 said:
Nooo, it's a gun problem dude: no gun - no problem.
Click to expand...
:roll: no schizo - no problem.
 
Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

Astonished said:
Since the constitution clearly says WELL REGULATED why are you fighting so hard against the constitutionally required regulations?
Click to expand...
Not this BS again.

Well Regulated ----> trained, ready to muster.
 
Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

maggied said:
this has everything to do with hippa and confidentiality and virtually nothing to do with congress wanting the mentally ill to own guns.
Click to expand...

hipaa

(I've had to give training on HIPAA before, the acronym drives everyone crazy!)
 
Last edited:
Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

cuban smokes said:
John Hinckley Jr. :doh
Click to expand...

Hinckley was the mentally ill man who tried to assassinate Reagan. I infer that cuban is hoping a copycat shows up sometime during this presidential term.
 
Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

Rucker61 said:
Hinckley was the mentally ill man who tried to assassinate Reagan. I infer that cuban is hoping a copycat shows up sometime during this presidential term.
Click to expand...


no, not hoping for that; I am hoping Trump will do his job & make the nation a good president & not be a rich, impetuous idiot

but what irony if some mentally ill person that could not previously obtain a firearm could eventually lawfully obtain one and then make such an attempt?
 
Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

jet57 said:
Nooo, it's a gun problem dude: no gun - no problem.
Click to expand...
Put your principles where your mouth is jet. Cash that check and get rid of your guns.
 
Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

iguanaman said:
No. Only the presence of a gun has shown the increased risk and it is massive especially if a young teen is in residence. To some a gun is like asking them to commit suicide. It is a home weapons most common "use".
If this "rule" was bad then write a new one that prevents the mentally ill from getting a gun. It is ridiculous beyond words. I have never seen such dysfunction.
Click to expand...

The rules and process is already there and does not involve some form of bureaucratic fiat.
 
Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

iguanaman said:
Please don't deny the high incidence of suicides by gun by the mentally unstable, it makes you sound like a troll. The mere presence of a gun in the home of someone with suicidal tendencies raises the risk of suicide by firearm tremendously. And in the worst case scenario you get Sandy Hook.
Click to expand...

Fixed it for you. Presenting statistics without pertinent variables makes people look pretty ignorant. Didn't want you to look ignorant.
 
Last edited:
Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

cuban smokes said:
no, not hoping for that; I am hoping Trump will do his job & make the nation a good president & not be a rich, impetuous idiot

but what irony if some mentally ill person that could not previously obtain a firearm could eventually lawfully obtain one and then make such an attempt?
Click to expand...

IF we take the SSA at their word, there are no people that would have had their names sent by SSA to NICS by this rule who weren't already adjudicated mentally incompetent and thus still unable to purchase a gun with a NICS background check.
 
Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

iguanaman said:
No. Only the presence of a gun has shown the increased risk and it is massive especially if a young teen is in residence. To some a gun is like asking them to commit suicide. It is a home weapons most common "use".
Click to expand...

According to CDC WISQARS data, more teens under 18 kill themselves by hanging than by the use of a firearm.

If this "rule" was bad then write a new one that prevents the mentally ill from getting a gun. It is ridiculous beyond words. I have never seen such dysfunction.
Click to expand...

I've never seen (okay, I see it every time the MSM prints a gun story) such illiteracy. This rule said one thing, and one thing only: that recipients of SSID and SSI funds, which are dispersed by the SSA, who had been assigned a representative payee due to mental incompetence should have their names sent to NICS as prohibited persons.

Although the SSA claims that anyone who has been assigned a representative payee has been declared mentally incompetent by a court, there's no proof that this is the case. There's also no support for a claim that those so declared incapable of managing their funds are dangerously mentally ill. There are likely thousands of mentally ill SSID and SSI recipients who are capable of managing their money and therefore not on the list. No other mentally ill people get their names sent to NICS unless they've been adjudicated mentally incompetent by a court of law or have been involuntarily committed to a mental institution, in accordance with 18 USC 922(g). This law is still in effect.

When ACLU and ARC is against the rule, that should tell you that it's a bad rule.
 
Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

iguanaman said:
Only the majority? Well I guess that shows the state of our mental health system then. How many preventable deaths are acceptable do you think? I know the profits of the gun makers is the bottom line but I wonder if there is a limit.
Click to expand...
The bottom line for any business is profit. What a redundant thing to say.
 
Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

Astonished said:
I didn't think you'd want me to mention the militia.....that would mean you should only have a gun if you're in the well regulated militia.
Click to expand...

that shows you have no understanding of the entire foundation upon which the constitution and the bill of rights was based upon and a complete lack of knowledge of the fact that the bill of rights was not intended to create "new rights" but to merely guarantee rights all the founders believed pre-existed the formation of the government.

How can a right that existed since the dawn of man require membership in a government required organization? the answer is it cannot.

so you can mention militia all you want and demonstrate ignorance as well. BTW since the federal government was never given any proper authority to regulate private firearms owned by private citizens, the second amendment merely restates the fact that said federal government has no proper power in this area
 
Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

cuban smokes said:
no, not hoping for that; I am hoping Trump will do his job & make the nation a good president & not be a rich, impetuous idiot

but what irony if some mentally ill person that could not previously obtain a firearm could eventually lawfully obtain one and then make such an attempt?
Click to expand...

Hinckley had nothing in his record that would have disqualified him from buying the handgun if he had been subjected to a background check at the time he obtained the pistol he used to attack RWR
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom